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Senate The US Politics 2.0 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Point Given , Nov 11, 2020.

  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    No. They’re not going to reverse certification.

    Good op-ed by Bernie here:

    In order to prevent another authoritarian President, the Democrats need to win back the working class
     
  2. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Thanks. I just keep on getting worried anytime something bad happens in court or with a legislature. I know basically all avenues have been blocked, but that doesn’t stop the irrational side of me
     
    Juliet316 likes this.
  3. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Coastal Elite liberals have spent the last four years going on Twitter lambasting the working class in the United States for not watching Hamilton or not doing other nonsense. Democrats are going to have to do something to show they're serious about the working class, but the thing is the Democratic base simply isn't. They'd rather punish Trump voters (just look at Yodas_roommate's post from earlier in the week).
     
  4. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    So, assuming there's no Georgia miracle in January... what are the most radical executive actions Biden could do?

    There will be a lot of reversing the supermajority of what Trump did, but that just brings us back to the Obama 2016 status quo.

    What are the most radical executive orders he could give, especially on domestic policy?





    EDIT:

    Also, looking at the maps, it seems like red america got redder and blue america got bluer, overall:

    2016
    [​IMG]

    2020
    [​IMG]


    Lastly there's this . . . [face_sick]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election#Publicly_expressed_interest_2


    Publicly expressed interest
    As of November 2020, individuals in this section have expressed an interest in running for president within the last six months.



    Other potential candidates
    As of November 2020, the following people have been subjects of speculation about their potential candidacy within the last six months.



    Declined to be candidates
    The individuals in this section have been the subject of speculation about their possible candidacy, but have publicly denied interest in running.


     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  5. Tython Awakening

    Tython Awakening Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Nothing has changed about Trump's attitude towards the election.
     
  6. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    There is no winning back workers after NAFTA. But beyond that yeah the coastal libs have freaking dumped on rural people who largely don't even vote, we can do platitudes all we want. That wont change a damn thing.

    It is a pointless and hollow point to make, it is like saying "republicans will risk another trump if they betray the vision of Ulysses S Grant." Bit late for that. It is not a solution, in fact that only one workers have been given is "oh never mind I lied to you as well, vote for the guy you know is also a rapist or you're the problem and not the literal segregationist." They are not offered things if people keep kneecapping them cause "trump is the biggest threat ever". Hell people right here are literally doing the "compromise cause the next trump" thing already. Biden's not even sworn in yet and we are being told to operate based on the assumption that dems wont offer us anything but will need us to stop the next supposed Hitler

    also that Biden cabinet article is bloodchilling and makes me fear for us all. "they will be like family as they starve people to death or drone strike hospitals"
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  7. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    While I completely agree with Bernie it’s hard to imagine that many Trump voters will ever get off the Trump train even if Dem’s make their lives better. It’s worth a shot but I’m not hopeful.
     
  8. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    What's worse than "Dems"?
    "Dem's".
     
  9. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    While the subhead mentions winning over Trump voters, later he describes it as avoiding the loss of millions of voters, which should be the actual goal. The goal should be to keep the millions who turned out solely to defeat Trump and are otherwise not particularly motivated to vote Democrat.

    The problem with this is that much of it simply doesn't describe the Democratic Party, and won't under a Biden administration. Biden is already showing that his side has no claim to several of those statements as he picks his cabinet.

    So, if supporters try to sway people with this One Side folk song, non-supporters and Republicans will be able to rightly say that Democrats cannot claim some of those things. They would be correct if they said neither side is for some of those things.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  10. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I’ve been very impressed with Biden’s Cabinet picks this far, and am especially happy to see a Cabinet-level position on climate created, with a top seat on the National Security Council, and a former Secretary of State in the position. That’s a major signal that they’re taking the issue far more seriously than under Obama. Really heartening to see actual competent people being tasked to do critically important things.

    I am, though, worried about Cedric Richmond’s close ties to the fossil fuel industry in Louisiana. Though that was all about political survival, I’m sure, it’s still a red flag. My hope is that he might be deployed to prevent opposition from those quarters, and not to water climate policy down (pun intended).

    Still need to keep this incoming Administration’s feet to the fire, but these signs are positive. A strong start, and not at all the massive “compromise” many feared.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Cedric Richmond and Bruce Reed are the concerning ones for me.

    But yeah, I’m definitely glad Biden is prioritizing climate more than Obama did. Biden’s objection to the Green New Deal seems to be the mandated timeline, not the deal itself. And I’m not going to assume he cannot possibly be persuaded there.

    I think the Democratic Party is going to have to move further left overall—to the point where the correct side in the Whose Side Are You On? song does describe them—or they will lose voters born in the 00s and later, who don’t buy into all the “b...bu...but...” nonsense that older voters put forth.

    I don’t have a lot of hope in winning over people who are still enthusiastic about Trump after all he’s done. I can’t treat “anti-science is as valid as science” or “my favorite screaming YouTube guy is just as knowledgeable as your PhD-accredited scientist” as opinions worth taking seriously. Even an idea like “bring back trade programs in high schools and stop pushing everyone into universities”—an idea I absolutely agree with—is considered a threat because that still involves school, as opposed to blaming immigrants for taking their jobs. And yes, NAFTA is awful and should be done away with.

    I’m in favor of Medicare for All, but I don’t have much hope on that being a selling point for people who react to their cardiologist telling them to quit smoking and stop eating Egg McMuffins every morning with “You can’t tell me what to do!”, much less people who actually think that Medicare for All will cost them more than their employer-based insurance or not having insurance at all.

    Maybe some of this comes from my making the mistake of reading online comments from anti-mask covidiots responding to North Carolina’s newest mask mandate with some combination of callousness towards people with Covid and health care workers, blatant disinformation and “you can’t tell me what to do!”
     
  12. dp4m

    dp4m JCC Playoff Pick 'Em Winner, Also a Narc star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    The Green New Deal is terrible because it's anti-nuclear.
     
  13. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    As though that's the reason the Democratic establishment opposes it.
     
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  14. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I find that really harsh and condecending to be frank. Like not offensive, but the same reason why dems will never get them on their side. Those people exist sure, but it should not be treated like a hurdle, but more than that they think that way cause a failing of their society. Corporations put whatever they want in their food with no consequence.

    Above all else though, it is not them who we need to win over, it is rarely if ever a strawman hick type, but rather people who make lots of money, had the chance to get a degree, and don't wanna lose their cushy insurance at their accounting job. The degree to which poor people or stubborn people buy into this is the degree to which they are sold propaganda by the democratic and republican parties.

    Most people are not still enthusiastic or where ever enthusiastic about trump. Dont confuse his cult for his voters, or his voters for non-voters. Most people NAFTA screwed over did not vote. Most working people don't need to be told that schools need to stop pushing universities that want to bleed us dry, The problem is not winning them over, it is the fact that that belief is actually more opposed, not by some racist coal miner but by the democratic party and by people with college degrees. The divide is often along that line. People less so need convincing as they need someone to rally behind who hates the democrats as much as they do.

    Also Biden does reject the green new deal itself, he rejects banning fracking. It's be like supporting the New Deal but not the welfare programs or the PWA.

    I would want to die if the dems tried to co-opt Which Side are you on. The dems can never even claim support for the workers side cause it is not a checklist. It is a battle. Not an ideological debate but a binary choice with no wiggle room.
    "they say in Harlan County there are no neutrals there, you either be a union man or a thug for J H Blair"
    It is not about goals but specifically one battle, one in which you can never ever cross the picket line in, and one in which you MUST view the bosses as the enemy always. You can't be true for some and not true for others, you either be capitalist or anti-capitalist no exceptions.

    Love Billy Bragg's version as well as the classic one.


    Management can never be on one side. The american people are not suckers, they know the dems can never look out for them. Even if we could convince them we would just be doing the 2020 thing again, attracting the and then going "oh never mind wait till next time I guess, vote for the people we know you hate and are voting specifically against otherwise you are the real problem"

    It's the same reason FDR's capitalist-saving new deal did more harm to a workers movement in the long run. It made people think they could put their faith into what was essentially a liferaft for capital, and when the inevitable occurred the whole movement collapsed. All this stuff does is erode trust ansd show people that they should NEVER trust anyone even if they agree with them. Our job is to convince people we will never side with the DNC and will look out for them cause we are actually on their side in a struggle that can take any number of forms and enemies. We should make sure the dems don't convince anyone they are on their side.

    The workers have to be given the organizational means to become a class of itself rather than in itself. As Lenin said of Engels' truth
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  15. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I agree with you about corporations getting away with putting crap in our food, in fact it’s a hot button issue for me (don’t get me started on high fructose corn syrup being put in every food that doesn’t run away first)—but that’s a separate issue than the viewpoint that medical advice that would improve one’s life expectancy and quality of life being equated to somewhere between “elites telling me how to live” and “communism.”

    And I can’t get my brain around rallying behind someone like Trump, who has given multiple tax breaks to the ultra-rich and used American taxpayer dollars to benefit his businesses, as an opposition to corporatism. It’s not OK for policy to benefit PepsiCo or Proctor and Gamble (and I agree, it isn’t)—but it’s OK for it to benefit the Trump Corporation?
     
  16. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I mean simple and easy as it may be, Salinger gave the answer, one that pins the blame directly on the ruling class itself and its perfidious means of getting compliance out of people's understandable wants and emotions.
    [​IMG]

    And I don't really blame them for that, A media more loyal to authority than under dictatorships, a society that could for 200 years use the frontier as a means of pushing people away from class conflict, etc; it all leads to this. Nothing short of eradicating the existence of a ruling class will change things I fear
     
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  17. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    There were a bunch of pictures making the rounds yesterday of huge lines waiting for food distribution at food banks in several red states. And this was right after Trump made his announcement about the DOW being up 3 million percent. The cognitive dissonance couldn't be more clear. Those same people who probably still rabidly support Trump, who cry out against socialist policies that they feel would result in them lining up for food at a food bank to have bread distributed to them.
     
  18. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Lucasfilm Ltd Mod star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    CNN was showing footage of lines today as well - not sure what states they were in as I came in late to the story.
     
  19. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    It's been drilled into their minds by the GOP and friends that the word "socialism" is a bad word. These people are, unfortunately, conditioned to foam at the mouth and fall over whenever that word is uttered.
     
  20. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Wait. I thought the food lines would only happen if the Socialist Biden Dems took power and made America Communist. Good thing, Trump won the election and that will never happen.
     
  21. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    So apparently some GOP people in New Hampshire now want to impeach the Republican Governor for requiring people to wear masks. The more time goes on the less “moderate” republicans there will be as eventually they’ll either be kicked from the party or just leave.
     
  22. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I like your sig, JKF. I just noticed it, and I completely agree, of course.
     
  23. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I forgot my sig was still political related
     
  24. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    This 100% opposition to fracking (of natural gas, at least) is, I think, one of the few flawed positions of many on the left and environmentalists.

    Right now, without more effective battery technology, solar and wind cannot provide 100% of our power needs. When the sun's down or the wind isn't blowing, we have to go back to the regular grid for our power. That gap requires us to fall back on some type of fossil fuel (except in places with hydroelectric or nuclear).

    Since we must rely on fossils fuels as a backup, the question is which fossil fuel source is the best, and natural gas is clearly the best option. The shift from coal to natural gas because of market forces actually led to a slight decrease in greenhouse gasses from fossil fuel power during most of the last 15 yrs, even though the US has continued to increase its energy consumption.

    I certainly think fracking for natural gas needs to be better regulated -- such as, leaking of methane into the atmosphere, pollution of water supplies, earthquakes in Oklahoma, etc. -- and it shouldn't be allowed in those areas where those problems can be prevented, but until battery technology is improved or there's a 24/hr sustainable energy source, it seems like fracking for natural gas needs to be part the equation for fighting climate change.

    That's my impression from my understanding of the subject. I'm interested in the thoughts of others who are knowledgeable on this issue.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  25. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    The Purge, Trump edition.

    The secret Cicero quote was probably the following:

    "Inter Arma, Enim Silent Legis" (?sp)--'In time of war, the law falls silent.' Would fit this administration perfectly.

    I'm wondering, can Biden simply fire all these people and rehire everyone normal and qualified that Trump's pushed out?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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