Senate The US Politics 2.0 Discussion Thread

The three aren't comparable in terms of the depth and breadth of horror that resulted either. After Pearl Harbor, the USA killed over a million foreign civilians; a couple hundred thousand of those were civilians who lived in allied countries. The American response to 9/11 led to foreign civilian deaths that also surpass the million, with the USA having directly killed well over ten thousand civilians.

The death toll attributable to 1/6/2021 is 5. It's a tenth of the average daily number of violent deaths in the USA, a number which stands at 54.

At this point in time, 1/6/2021 has no place being put on the same standing as either. It is nowhere near belonging in the same category of events.

 

@Yodaminch But the ghost of Trump gets their base fired up even though DJT himself is a ghost of his former self. The campaign money has dried up and his presence on the internet is almost non existent. FNC won't even cover any of his speeches since they are rating killers. In a way it's like Trump died on 1/6 and MAGA uses him as a martyr to carry on their "cause" through the guy himself is very much alive all be it with his brain continuing to turn into mush & his legal/financial problems growing faster then his waistline which is hard to do. So they will comtinue to rally around the ghost of DJT no matter what.

Meanwhile MTG and soon to be indicted Congreessman tried to have a press conference. It didn't go well:



Lesson: A whistle is like a cross and vampires for MAGAers.

 

Seeing them flee is best thing I've seen in a long time.

 

How many millions of stories of dread and injury would you like? How many millions of homes destroyed before the difference shows? How many million refugees?

The death toll is just the easiest metric available to show just how deep the chasm between the fallout of Pearl Harbor and of 9/11 have been compared with the fallout of 1/6/2021. That chasm remains just as wide from many, many different angles, whether we're talking historical significance, material consequences, or human consequences.

And even in the strict scope of the USA, the only way 1/6/2021 stands out in a much worse and much more lamentable history of American crime is because, for the first time, you were put directly in front of a coup attempt against the central government. There are hundreds of events in your history with worse fallout on every level but the political one. The daily grind of the damage wrought by American society on its own is actually much worse under nearly every possible metric - but that grind is also nearly invisible. But you have collectively been terrorized by the millions and are feeding on one another's fears, and aren't in a good position to take a step back and realize how little damage has been done at this point.

There are possibilities that 1/6/2021 grows and gains in significance, to the point that it becomes a match for the horrors birthed by Pearl Harbor and by 9/11. But you aren't there, nor anywhere near there. A full-scale civil war is the comparable scope for horror.

 

An event can be massively important without lots of people dying. Germany once had a failed coup attempt in which a handful of people died. Guess what happened when the coup-leader got off with little punishment and eventually got into power...

When something happens that makes it abundantly clear that very large portion of the country is ready to get rid of democracy, it most definately is an event of massive importance that shapes the country. Lots of dead people aren't a necessary requirement for importance. No one died when the Berlin Wall came down, but it is still one of the most famous and important events in recent history, which directly led to huge changes to Europe as a whole.

 

At this point in time, however, we are at might be's for long-term consequences with historical importance. Again, I brought up a parallel with the Horst Wessel Lied as a possible path to long term significance of the event. It was not an innocent reference.

Perhaps, further down the line, the event will acquire far more historical significance. But it does not have that yet, and nobody in their right minds should wish for it to acquire that kind of significance.

 

The most significant event in the last hundred years was on Jul 16th, 1945. It only directly led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, but at one point was one ordinary person's decision away from the deaths of billions. And it has been one of the major influences on human history since then. How many people can honestly even name what it was?

 

I think what many of us are trying to say is we don't know what the lasting consequences are yet. They are still unfolding. But that is all the more reason not to ignore or minimize it. Treat it seriously, investigate and understand what happened and then history will sort the rest out. Hopefully, it goes down in history as a mere footnote along with 45 himself and not a repeat of a prelude to something worse.

 

People don't know about nuclear weapons?

 

Trinity.

On a completely different topic, China have just put their foot down against their own equivalent of UberEats and similar businesses. Among the measures taken:
- Mandatory rise of pay above minimum wage
- Access to social security and proper health coverage
- The creation of labor unions
- The construction of resting areas
- The providing of better equipment
- The reprogramming of delivery algorithms to ease up the load on individual workers

Here's an example we could stand to follow.

 

It was a rhetorical question, not a quiz.

 

You got the question wrong, the significant event that starts the chain happens in December 1938, and the principals are Otto Hahn, Fritz Strassmann, Lise Meitner and Otto Robert Fritsch

/history_nerd

 

OMG….thank you for being realistic here! The Democrats and others are really trying to ramp up this Jan 6 incident and place it amongst some of the most serious events in history. It’s a joke. It’s also a huge insult to people involved with major events like Pearl Harbor, September 11th, etc. Just stop.

Yes, the Jan 6th thing was bad. But…..really? Was everyone really scared for our countries well being after a bunch of trailer park nimrods drank too much Busch light and stormed the capital? Like they were gonna "take over"? Not a chance. Please. Meanwhile, as the Dems and other "do gooders" still go after Trump and and a small band of rednecks….cities across America have seen a huge uptick in crime. Daylight beatings, carjackings, shoplifting is a new sport, toddlers being shot, etc, etc. Does anyone want to talk about that? Apparently not since it gets brushed aside for more eh hem "important" concerns like bumpkins storming the capital. I know, it’s the guns fault. Sure.

Im sure I’m not alone when I say that I’m a LOT more scared of the violence increases we’ve seen, financial problems, erosion of freedoms and stuff like that versus some batch of Bumpkins "attacking" the White House. My goodness.

 

I dunno, ask Mike Pence if the Vice President was worried for his life when a mob broke into the capital with him there, after hanging him in effigy and chanting for his death.

 

Who gives a **** if Mike Pence was worried for his life?

Can we just drop this discussion? It's been semantical the whole time. No one has said anything remotely interesting or even informative, it's just been a **** measuring contest.

 

Whistleblower Daniel Hale, who exposed the fact that 90% of drone strike casualties are non-targets, was sentenced today to 3 years, 9 months in prison. He had a suitably contemptuous response.

 

It's really difficult for me to give a flying **** about how scared or how beat up any of the cops got after seeing what they did in 2020 and earlier and what they continue to do.

Cry more, pigs.

 

How could you not have sympathy for men who deck themselves out like they are in Starship Troopers every time a BLM, anti-war, or "Octogenarians for Feeding Terminally Ill Orphans" protest shows up in front of the Capitol?

 

Provide your data sources for this showing a huge uptick of each of the crimes mentioned. Or admit you don't actually want to talk about that stuff.

 

Same. I've been moved to exactly zero feelings by all the many references ITT to the poor, brave hero cops who, Idk, whatever that day. Idgaf. I can't even be bothered to learn what happened to them because I just don't care at all.

 

I get this sucks. And if anyone here thinks most of us want to talk about anything having to do with Trump? We don’t. But he just won’t go the **** away and his people refuse to denounce him and shun him. Instead, they continue to worship at his feet and we see the consequences of those actions.

I remember quite clearly how many people mocked the million moron march that morning and the insanity of the stop the steal campaign as we saw how ridiculous the protestors looked.

Then they breached the capital and it stopped being funny. Then they dragged officers out into the steps and beat them with the American flag all while raising the Trump flag- and it became horrific- not because it was an officer, but because they would not hesitate to do that with anyone. (See testimony today for how they treated black officers that day). The desire to ignore all of this and move on is strong. But in 2016, while most of us mocked Trump and assumed an early night for Hillary, he went and won. And when we assumed he would just give up after losing to Joe, he went and tried to overturn the election in 60 different cases. And when we assumed that was enough, he launched the stop the steal on January 6th. And Finally, when we thought that THIS was the moment, he managed to bully and threaten Congress to continue to fight certification hours later. He then managed, with McConnell’s help, to delay his Senate impeachment trial until after he left. And then? He continued to issue bulletins and hold rallies all while believing that come mid-August, he will be president again.

How many times must we assume he is done, only for his followers to pull some new crazy stunt to keep him in the news?

I truly wish he had kept his promise that
if Biden won, we would never see him again. Alas, here we are having to hold hearings to get to the truth of what happened because members of our own government are actively trying to bury this and move on to suppressing the vote in as many places as possible.

I hope the investigate is thorough. I hope it moves quickly. And I hope when it is all over, we never hear or see Donald Trump again.

 

Oh great I asked for the discussion to stop and I get a wall of who gives a **** that I'm not going to read instead. Thanks.

 

I mean, Mike gave you a list of topics he wanted to talk about...