Senate The US Politics 2.0 Discussion Thread

That’s their idea now?
It’s nigh on impossible to prove something doesn’t exist (see: yeti, loch ness monster, reptilians, child abuse ring in basement of pizza place that has no stairs going down). Meanwhile, Trump et al have not seen proven the exact same thing so now they’re trying to shift the burden of proof.

 

Joe Biden will enter the WH on Jan 20th.

Whether DiaperDon wants to make this easy on himself is up to him. That's the only choice he has at this point.

Will this be the first president-reject to be escorted out of the WH? Or will Donny sulk his way to FL in the days before, effectively abdicating his role early so that he doesn't have to go to the inauguration, or greet the Bidens at the front door.

He's at the bargaining stage now. He thinks he has the upper hand. He thinks he has control. He has nothing.

 

If nothing else, the covid situation In modern America has made the difference between good people and bad easily distinguishable. Bad people reserve the right to endanger your life solely for their personal and often transient benefit (often using the constitution as a shield to hide behind). Good people reserve the right to restrict your transient benefits so you don’t endanger other people’s lives.

But since bad people don't like to admit that they're lowlife jerks, this naturally slides right into their limitless ability to lie about how much danger they're putting other people are in, to vilify those people beyond reason to justify whatever danger is left (i.e they're commies, socialists, muslims, etc.) and to believe any conspiracy that will support these beliefs (regardless of how obviously insane it is).

These people are a cancer and the risk of America's potential destruction as a viable entity sits squarely on their shoulders and on the shoulders of the idiots and self-serving power mongers who enable them.

 

PA 3rd circuit just denied Trump's case to reverse the certification, or throw out votes, or whatever the hell they requested to appeal.

1-39

EDIT: Oh and the judges were all conservatives, one of whom was appointed by Trump, himself. He really thought these judges worked for him, and would just give him the presidency.

 

I wonder how many cases it will be by the time all is said and done

 

45 has a nice ring to it. lol

 

That's right. And we can see Trump declare his legal strategies on Twitter for a pathway to re-election. We can look at micro-strategies and micro-intentions in his written statements on twitter. (What a dufus Trump is to make his intentions nakedly open to Biden?). Something upstairs in Trump's brain is openly defiant enough to promote the fictional scenario that he can be re-elected by DEFAULT! His openly declared strategies on Twitter and the Pennsylvania hearing on Thursday suggest he can be re-elected by DEFAULT! Or perhaps his followers are so inclined to believe he has a pathway by DEFAULT!

In addition, I would like to humbly dedicate a song to all of you in this thread for following the election. Here is Blue Oyster Cult with Dancing in the Ruins from the album Club Ninja???

 

Funny that the conservatives would use the term "evolving" when they eviscerated Anthony Kennedy for citing "evolving standards of decency" as a reason why laws criminalizing homosexual intercourse were unconstitutional back in Lawrence v Texas.

At the end of the day of course, the concept of "laws" are exposed for what really are: flimsy human constructs with no real foundation or substance outside of society's willingness to adhere to and enforce them. The verbal gymnastics engaged in by the majority here are every bit the definition of judicial activism that they've foisted on 'liberals' for the last 40-years.

EDIT: PA 3rd circuit just denied Trump's case to reverse the certification, or throw out votes, or whatever the hell they requested to appeal.

Now it's on to SCOTUS. I don't expect them to move on it, but given how much they've reversed the lower courts since Trump added 3 justices, you never know...

 

I don't think that works though because so many people have to endanger others due to economic pressures. People with little to no trouble who can work from home will reap the benefits of others being forced to work, but complain about people being irresponsible while their economic prosperity ensures that companies will be able to force people to go in. Like anyone who supported Prop 22 has done more spreading because of their attempt to codify the gig economy further.

Covid has less shown the difference between good and bad, but moreso made it indistinguishable who is being "bad" and who is living in poverty

 

Trump has pulled the U.S. public into his fantasy reality T.V. show where he can insult and degrade people at will using the authority of the U.S. presidency. It would be a righteous and befitting end to his presidency to see him escorted out. Maybe that will be one of the images that goes into future high school textbooks. I still think there is way he can be arrested while still president. The presidency is entitled to immunities and privileges, and they are vast, but theoretically, no one is above the law.

 

Still though...what are they technically even appealing at this point? PA 3rd circuit says that Trump's own legal team say there's no fraud. And aren't putting any evidence to support that absurd claim. They just want to reverse certification because ... they wants it real bad.

 

theoretically war crimes are a bad thing btw. if wishes where horses and all that

 

Those pretty clearly aren't the behaviors being discussed. There are lots of ways to work on-site in a way that respects public health initiatives. Whereas I am not aware of any level of socioeconomic deprivation that compels someone not to wear a mask.

 

"We wants it, yes precious, we wants it! They stole it from us! Wicked! Tricksy! False!"

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I'll acknowledge that there are two categories of people in the business of actions that are disruptive to society. The desperate I think of as people whose decision making is being forced upon them so I hold them largely blameless. But then there are the truly vile who know damn well what they're doing to others (or won't admit to knowing to the point of self-imposed stupidty) and just don't feel the need to take any responsibility for it (the recent Supreme Court ruling on places of worship being allowed to hold large gatherings despite the obvious dangers as an example). That's incredibly responsible and morally reprehensible. The constitution doesn't bleed, doesn't get sick and doesn't go to the hospital where it would then endanger both other patients and staff. People do.

And a good part of the reason so many are desperate goes right back to these idiots in the first place.

Communities of any size are built on the underlying assumption that the population is willing to cooperate to a certain degree which implies that the individuals that compose it must be willing to set aside their individual needs in certain circumstances. If the level of cooperation in certain circumstances falls below that threshold, that community effectively becomes unworkable which means you need to restore a certain amount of unity (either by persuasion, separation or outright force) or the entire structure will face eventual violent collapse.

The great flaw of the constitution in instances like now is that it believes that the rights of the individual supersede all else. This is a benefit when weighted against the backdrop of an untrustworthy government because it guarantees protection to the citizens but it is an utter failure when set against the backdrop of communal responsibility especially in times of crisis because if enough members of that society feel no sense of communal responsibility it essentially guarantees chaos.

 

Yeah it would......shame there are many aholes in america. Cause I have seen that attitude out there. More than that though I am talking about the general spread. It does not matter who asked for it or whatever, even if everyone was polite and worse masks, amazon would still be running their warehouses, fast food would be open, etc. The spread, not the individuals, but the general uptick in cases is blamed on a moral failing of individual people. However much of what is happening is because of people having to go into work. Something that was bipartisan.

Cuomo sure as hell can't tell the difference given he opened back up and forced people to die. Yet so many people talking about good citizenship wrote opeds about him or gushed on twitter for months. The difference is very clearly not a stark one in the mind of the public, people are willing to yell rightly at people not wearing masks, but also accept workers being forced to work.

That is a very real thing, it is present right in the fact that Biden wants to keep the economy open and people are not giving him **** for that. If people knew the difference, they would not be ranting about anti-mask people while praising Biden. Instead the individual failings are given more hatred than systemic ones. Than rich and powerful people choosing not to force lockdowns, bowing to corporations, or sending their employees to work.

It has become a social issue and not an economic one in terms of how it is talked about. If it was not like that then people would be burning effigies of Cuomo. the selfish individuals are part of it, but they are facilitated by people who have power and talk all nice about masks, but still profit from forcing people to go in.

It has not made things more distinguishable because you cannot tell from the numbers who died due to selfishness, who died due to lack of medicare, who died due to being forced to work. It rings utterly hollow, and no amount of personal experience as to who is bad and who is good changes the fact that the most responsible people for the death are the ones who wear the masks, but send their employees in to serve gullible fools all of whom die. Mask or not, outside or not, those are not the distinction.

That's exactly my point. People can intellectually know the difference, but it does not change the fact that people are just yelling at selfish boomers and not idk demanding a stimulus? They cannot claim both. Give people a damn reason to stay in, and be angry at the people who chose not to extend unemployment. The most comfortable people are blaming every symptom and not the fact that the economic system from which they profit which actually is the disease. People find it easier to blame an intentionally evil individual than accept that this is on them if they support Uber or Bezos or any number of neoliberal politicians. Personal accountability is only in direct actions and never in the sense of being accountable for the political system you reproduce

It goes back to the fact that we need to stop applauding essential workers and instead put the feet of ceos to the fire directly. Rhetoric does not get stimulus passed, it does not get wage-raises, it does not get universal healthcare. People can talk about capital's failings, but then cower before the necessary steps to correct them

edit: I think the distinctions of good and bad here just oversimplify the fact that well....we live in a society. People are brainwashed, both the antimask aholes, and the "wear a mask but don't you dare go on strike" aholes. People who refuse to demand $15 or more minimum wage are responsible for this at every step of the way. The people who are conscious actors however really are the rich and powerful. They can tell people to not wear a mask or wear one, it makes not difference cause they will profit from the death either way. From Bezos to Trump, from Biden to the My Pillow guy. You have the selfish people, but while personal responsibility is a thing, the larger blame should be on social responsibility for the ruling class.

We don't live by social contract, we live by contract signing ourselves over to a management class. they make people feel that this petty individualism is what freedom is, but just rejecting that wont save you from being forced by both cultural factions of that class to work and be exploited.

Both the good and bad people are victims of exploitation, even the petite-bourgeois. They are desperate for pretend control because it is all they have to fill the hole capitalism intentionally leaves in them.

It is less good or bad individuals and more a matter of dialectical materialism

 

It's sad that we can't 100% say this won't actually happen. But in the event that he doesn't vacate the White House, I'm not so sure televising it would be the best thing. Because then Meal Team Six and all of his other batzit insane supporters will think that what the authorities are doing to Trump is unlawful, and that it's their time to take the law into their own hands. Especially given how riled up they've become over Trump's rhetoric, with him already telling them to "stand by". They'll probably think this is go time. So just in the interest of public safety, I doubt the Secret Service would even announce what is happening, and would try remove him from the White House very quietly and not out in the open. And then release some kind of statement afterwards about how Trump has indeed vacated the White House and the next administration will have a smooth transfer of power.

 

Whatever day he decides to leave (if he decides to leave) you can bet your life that you'll see a bunch of fat bearded guys in military gear that doesnt fit, armed to the teeth, telling him to stay there, that they will protect him and he's not going anywhere cuz hes our President!

 

i was at coscto wednesday and there was still some guy driving a truck in the parking lot flying a big trump flag out of the bed

 

I'm home for Thanksgiving (just the four of us, we all live like hermits, and we take every social distancing measure as seriously as can be) and I was driving through the local neighborhoods (Kasson area) which still have Trump signs and flags up. I haven't seen a single one taken down. It's a combination of mostly denial but probably some procrastination.

 

Or more dangerously, firmly believing that Biden's presidency is illegitimate, and that the law no longer applies to them as a result. It wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing some of these communities in heavily red territory begin declaring their own townships, with their own "elected" officials and Y'all Qaeda acting as some kind of law enforcement. With the actual elected officials and law enforcement in those areas turning a blind eye to it, who more or less support them. We've already seen how just completely unhinged these people are with Trump as president, they are about to take it a whole other level once Biden takes office. Especially once distribution for a Covid vaccine gets underway that this illegitimate Biden administration is trying to force everybody to take. They'll probably also hold on to some belief that their dear leader, or at least his platform, will be put back into office in 2024.

 

Rudy Giuliani will appeal the 3rd Circuit’s decision to the Supreme Court. Normally I’d say they have no chance but a) they just issued that ridiculous religious freedom ruling and b) it’s 2020, so take nothing for granted.