Discussion The Utterly Awful Completely Contemptible Please God Make The Suffering Stop Rumors Thread

This feels like the beginning of a new dance. Put on your best flannel and do The Lucas Shuffle.

 

I have lots of flannel/plaid shirts lol

 

Very telling isn't it... I don't have an issue with filmmakers doing a cinematic adoption of a book, comic, play etc. (many of the finest films ever made come via that route), or directors being hired to just direct whatever they are hired to direct... I do take issue with directors whom set themselves up as 'creatives', within their own production companies, and then just continue to churn out reboots, remakes and sequels to existing franchises. It accurately reflects their level in the pantheon of filmmakers.

 

That's a weird way to count things though. There are more than theatrical releases, there is more than directing, and there is more than just movies. JJ Abrams has developed a ton of new stuff, to the point where he was known as the guy who set up something new and then either couldn't finish it or let someone else deal with it. He came up with multiple successful tv-shows, and quite a few decent movies as well. And that doesn't even include his work as executive producer. He was basically chosen to revive MI and Star Trek when both had been on the downswing, because of his own recent creations, not because he was known as someone who works on franchise-movies. Abrams having done quite a few franchise movies lately doesn't somehow mean that this is his usual work.

I mean, if you don't count Super 8 because it is a homage or ripoff of "80s Spielberg", than you might just as well throw out much of what Lucas and Spielberg did, as those often where homages to 30s and 50s Hollywood and / or Kurosawa. If that is all it takes to not count as something developed on your own, then hardly anything would.

 

Abrams has had fingers in many pies, and most of it the worst kind of Hollywood dross (in my opinion)... everything from Forever Young to Armageddon... but I'm happy to throw that work into the ring to better ascertain Abrams place in the pantheon of great filmmakers. Felicity, Alias and Lost... also, very average genre television IMO... although I did think Lost was interesting enough in the 1st season... but it was the shape of things to come with empty mystery boxes...

I'm hoping you're not trying to compare Super 8 with Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark? Also not forgetting the key point, which is Abrams takes directly from the same source i.e. he's derivative within genre (and is derivative of the franchise itself when it comes to SW). Both Lucas and Spielberg are influenced from multiple sources, be it Republic serials, John Ford westerns, David Lean historical epics, James Bond to Kurosawa samurai films. It's why ANH and Raiders were often referred to as 'post modern', whilst Super 8 and TFA are often referred to as 'derivative'.

 

What you think is average genre television or the "worst kind of Hollywood dross" hardly matters at all. One could produce drivel from start to finish, not delivering a quality product even once, but still only have done original work. The two things simply aren't linked at all. What matters is that Abrams did a ton of work on stuff he himself came up with, and that many of these projects were successful. That's what this was about. Claims were made that he just did not work on original concepts, and those claims are completely and utterly false. It doesn't matter one bit whether one likes the things he came up with, heck, I don't care for any of those things, what matters is what he actually factually did, and that is mostly original work. That original work, in turn, led to him being hired to revive franchises.

Nice strawman, that wasn't the point at all. And no, it doesn't make any sense to act as if Abrams simply picks something and basically makes a carbon copy. He also has multiple things that influence him. It's not like there aren't people out there who claim that ANH is basically a remake of Hidden Fortress either. Again, this was about whether he did original work or not, and whether something that takes from the past is original or not. For that, the quality of the final product is irrelevant, as is whether it is a mishmash of multiple thing from the past or just one. Either taking something from the past is original or it isn't. It can't be one thing for one person and the opposite for another.

 

So what makes you think anything you have to say 'hardly matters at all'?

I can make that link for you... Abrams output is largely poor to average, and the vast majority of it is derivative, unoriginal, and largely based upon the ideas of others.

I refer you to your own point... what you think of Abrams hardly matters at all.

Anyone can view Abrams CV. His filmography, where he's actually directing/making films, consists of mainly reboots and sequels. That's factual.

The straw man was all yours. You compared those 3 filmmakers.

What doesn't make sense about it exactly? From what I've heard Abrams say, and from his actual films themselves, I'd say his influences seem very limited, which is one of the reasons why (IMO), he's such a poor filmmaker i.e. he hasn't the depth of cinema knowledge to draw from. But obviously that's only my opinion based on an educated assessment of his work.

Whom exactly is claiming that ANH is a remake of Hidden Fortress?

So what it looks like you're actually stating, to me anyway, is that you don't actually appreciate the difference between influence and imitate,.. and that being derivative is just the same as paying homage to, and in a world where concepts cannot exist in a vacuum of outside influence that, for example, Jaws must be deemed as unoriginal as Jaws: The Revenge.

 

I'll do YOU one better: WHY is Lucas!?


Aaaahhhh...word play....good times.

BTW: I know mine didn't really fit...It just reminded me of that.

RE: The originality of Snyder and Abrams...I get what is being said there, for sure. However, I would argue that the concept of originality in films is increasingly rare across the board these days-as most of the things released by Hollywood is utterly derivative and in some few cases are straight up copies of something else, simply wrapped up in a different colored bow. With the exception of a select few directors/films, almost everything released of note is either a sequel, reboot or adaptation these days-it's definitely not limited to these two directors, they are simply contributors in a world that must feel quite familiar to them....

 

Jordon Mason has said that there is a chance Mandalorian season 3 isn’t a season 3 but something else he probably means a film. It could be nothing but I thought it was worth a share.

 

Man, honestly, not sure why you do this. I told you a while ago, this is the same you did back in the day with Rey being Luke's kid. You keep looking at things they way you'd like them to be and then come here disappointed when reality knocks at the door.

Filoni is a key LFL employee, but he is clearly not in charge of anything. He probably plays the role Disney would have wanted Lucas to have.

 

You mean Rey Skywalker? You're right that my prediction was wrong. She wasn't his kid she just *checks notes* took his name, saber, and is supposed to continue his legacy of teaching others about the Force.

 

How did that go? Did that leave you at peace? Cause to most of us was just a poor way of throwing a certain crowd a cookie for making Rey entirely unrelated to the Skywalkers. In fact, she was related to the Palpatines. And guess what? No one expected that cause it made no sense, as the movie proves. Disney wanted the Skywalkers to end so they can move on. And not only that, Filoni was part of some of those meetings.

Do you think he was openly against that decission? Better, do you think LFL would have cared if had that been the case?

 

So do we think Taikas film is first Jedi, it’s clear like all the Disney + stuff is in the same time frame expect Obi and maybe Alcolyte really need dawn of the Jedi stuff with the right writer and director it’ll be fantastic there’s been no rumors about the films have there?

 

I love Taika’s style, but I don’t really want him to cover the story of the origin of the Jedi. There are other directors whose tone would fit such a story much better in my opinion.

 

I hope Taika's film is a standalone Rey and Finn movie post-TRoS which isn't afraid to get weird, with the more conventional Rogue Squadron set in the same period.

 

Completely agree. In my opinion an origin story for the first Jedi would not grab my attention as a terribly exciting idea. I’m all for stories about Jedi…just not their origin.

 

A better idea is the origin of the sith, as before them i dont think they had and big enemies.

 

That's what I keep thinking. I'd rather the mystery be kept intact instead of possibly getting a bad origin story that is canon.

 

Completely agree... I was even about to mention that "Yoda's species" example too.