Discussion The Utterly Awful Completely Contemptible Please God Make The Suffering Stop Rumors Thread

Well, except it is anything but self-defeating. Mando was the #1 TV show in the world with the #1 most widely adored meme/character in Baby Yoda. Being on Disney plus did not stop that from being an international juggernaut, and that's very broad range and appeal that most certainly can grow the fanbase.
I agree with what I think is your main point, that the movies needs to be successful also to keep the franchise on top. But it is also- a new day, a day in which streaming has gained increased relevance.

 

The Rise of Skywalker, regardless of its merits, had a bigger global reach. That's what I mean by self defeating in terms of growing your audience. Television is a valid medium for releasing content, but it isn't the medium.

 

I think you're underestimating the shift in the primary medium that consumers view content.

 

I think you are using a different measuring stick than I am in terms of global reach. I would guarantee you people all over the world find Baby Yoda more recognizable than anything in RTOS right now. Yes, they still look at movies as #1 for the franchise, but there is no denying the shift to streaming; this is a developing trend. We will see where it ends up, especially with going to lower budgets. Streaming likely will continue to grow and take larger shares. We must reckon with the fact our species has left the cave at some point...​

 

Baba Yoda being more popular than any, and every character the ST had to offer, is evidence that the character is more popular... not that more people watched the Mandalorian than The Rise of Skywalker. Indeed, have more people watched the last series of TCWC or the Mando than the ST? That audiences now consume streamed content, and time shift their viewing habits, is undeniable, but that doesn't necessarily result in a larger audience share for a given show... there's a lot of evidence to suggest that both the quantity of content and streaming services is splitting audience share, not growing it (although there will always be winners and losers regardless of numbers). For example, prime time shows on the BBC, in the 70's and 80's, used to get over 10 million viewers week after week. There isn't a single show that does that now. Not because there's fewer people watching TV, but because there's fewer people watching the same thing. People have been declaring cinema dead since the advent of television, but it's still here. Coronavirus may have a longer term impact, but the jury's out on that at the moment.

 

As Bob Dylan once said, "the times, they are a-changin'."

Yeah, see some of use don't think quality is decided by viewing numbers

 

He also sang "blowin in the wind"... hehe...

Viewing numbers are definitely not a measure of quality. I personally believe the Mando and TCWC were/are streets ahead of the ST, but I think it would be difficult (based on the data) to make a case for the Disney+ shows getting a higher audience share than the cinematic releases of the ST. At the moment, cinema still has the biggest draw, and the data suggests that going to the cinema (before Coronavirus anyway) was becoming more popular, not less. So streaming services certainly weren't shown to be denting box office revenues. And ultimately, any model based on subscription only content will be, by its nature, limited... even if profitable for the streaming company...

 

It's actually evidence that Mando grew the popularity of SW, likely in a way that TROS didn't. The fact that everyone knew the character indicates an appeal that could lead to interest in the future, more so than any forgettable movie that a lot of people saw. The idea that Mando is "splitting audiences" or in any way making SW less popular is absurd. It's keeping SW popular while movie popularity fell off some.

You are talking outdated methods of measuring viewing, you know that right? When Mando was measured #1 TV show, they uses a combination of indicators, not just viewing at one particular time like the old measures. People steam things in ways that can't be measured, and these services are available world wide in a way they didn't use to be. So the audience grew as well as the amount of shows, that's why they continue to spend big money on the shows.

No one is saying cinema is dead, that is a straw job. Streaming is just moving closer, and that has been gradually the case, with big-budget Netflix movies winning Oscars and such.

Cinema actually doesn't have a bigger draw; people spend much more time watching TV than going to the movies. You are talking apples and oranges here in this comparison.
Also, both streaming and movies can increase or decline independent of one another. Movies don't have to decrease overall for streaming to increase; it's not an either/or situation. The reason Disney made a massive investment in streaming is because they know it is the future.​

 

Firstly, that is not evidence that TV is a better medium than cinema for Star Wars. It’s simply evidence that The Mandalorian is more popular than the ST. Secondly, who was stating that The Mandalorian was “splitting audiences”?

I’m not talking outdated methods at all. In totality, how many people have watched/downloaded/streamed The Mandalorian? How many people have watched the Sequel Trilogy? How many people bought the Sequel Trilogy on Blu-Ray/DVD? How much money did the Sequel Trilogy make? How much revenue has The Mandalorian made? These are quite simple key performance indicators for measuring audience reach. And as already started this IS NOT a measure of quality. I’m talking the medium that makes the most money and that reaches a wider audience.

Then why are you stating that streaming “is the future”? It’s only the ‘future’ if it takes the place of cinema, otherwise things would be the same as they are now... and I’d be unclear as to what is actually being contested.

That streaming services are becoming more popular isn’t being contested.

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I think you are conflating a couple of key things I.e. the way people stream content, the growth in subscription channels with an increase in audience numbers. That is not necessarily the case. What is happening is streaming/subscription channels are taking audiences away from the ‘terrestrial’ TV stations, and other platforms. But it’s basically the same audience right? It’s not that people who didn’t historically ever watch TV are now subscribing to Disney+ and Netflix... you know that right? Streamed services aren’t (currently) taking business away from cinema/multiplexes... as cinema/multiplex business continues to grow (or was before Coronavirus). So when you say “streaming is the future”, it may be the future of television content, but it isn’t the future of cinema (not yet anyway). And of course not everyone can subscribe to all the platforms. It’s not a very democratic medium... which is why I happen to believe its future (in its current model) is finite.

 

Firstly we don't know the raw numbers for streaming services and how they compare to cinema attendance. Secondly cinema attendance is declining as a general trend.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/3/16844662/movie-theater-attendance-2017-low-netflix-streaming

 

Firstly, if there aren’t any metrics for raw streaming services, then it’s difficult to make a case for it based on data. Secondly, the link seems to be for an article about US domestic cinema, not global. Global attendance was up in 2019, as was box office.

 

Well, I don't think anyone is suggesting there's any chance of Disney never making any more big-screen films, be it Star Wars or otherwise, so I don't see the harm in filling in the few years gap between them with some shows.

TV was the future over radio, but plenty of peaple still own and listen to the latter. Something being the new big thing does'nt nesseserly equate to the old big thing totally falling out of use or even prominance.

 

I certainly wasn’t suggesting that Disney shouldn’t be doing live action TV shows. The original point that was being contested was that TV should be the main medium for the franchise.

 

It’s impossible to contest at this point. We’ll be getting Star Wars TV shows every year for the foreseeable future, and films probably every three-to-five years. TV will be the primary medium for Star Wars in the future. That case is nearly closed.

 

Been saying for years that it makes more sense for comedies and other cheaper films to go straight to streaming. Every year more and more people have a nice home setup that allows them to pause the movie and take a piss, smoke weed/drink, eat, and not have to deal with other people. People need a movie to be something that HAS to be seen on the big screen. Avengers? Definitely. Step Brothers 2? I'll watch that at home.

 

Agreed. Though I only watch Avengers movies three years after they’ve been released, and on a small airplane screen, after finding nothing else I want to watch.

 

From Anchorman the Legend of Ron Burgundy:

"Bob Dylan once wrote The Times They Are A-Changin'. Ron Burgundy had never heard that song, so when he fell, he fell hard."

While I agree. Seeing a comedy with a good audience is such a better experience than watching alone at home.

Or at least it was until March. I would be to uncomfortable worrying about getting sick right now to enjoy a movie in a theater.

 

A good comedy, maybe...

...but not Step Brothers 2

(I'm not sure what the last comedy film I saw in a theater was. Does Thor: Ragnarok count?)

 

It counts. If comedy drama is a Dramadey, is comic book comedy a Comedy Book movie?

 

You actually ARE talking outdated methods. You should look into how popularity is measured with streaming services, it is a combination of things. And actually yes, there are LOADS of people who never much watched the junk on regular TV and started watching streaming., I am one of them. I think you are dated in your view here.

I get that you aren't with streaming, but it actually IS the future. The fact that streaming is the future does not mean it will replace cinema, I don't get why that's hard to understand. Streaming will envelope a large portion of our entertainment

Let me guess, you use DVD's and have never subscribed to a streaming service. Acceptance is the first step.....

 

Just as you can't make a case against it.

Yes but overall attendence has been on a downward trend.

 

Never in my life would I have thought I would have gotten rid of DirectTv. We switched to Hulu+live tv and saved $120 a month, I can't believe I didn't do it sooner. I was hanging on to local sports with the Twins, Wild, and Wolves. Once I found out that Hulu would still let me watch all that...see ya. I am happy with cutting cable and will never go back.

That said, the pay day a movie has in the theater is way to big still. Disney can make $1billion on a Marvel movie, and still get people to their streaming service for another $1billion. They aren't going to cut out the theaters, more likely Disney will buy out AMC on the cheap during a prolonged shutdown and hold onto it until they can run movies in theater again.

 

Then Thor: Ragnarok was the last time I saw a comedy in the theater.

And I almost did'nt go to see it either; the first two were so boring that, had it not been for the trailers and for what everyone was saying, I would have just skipped out on it altogther.

Lee's got a point point, PJ; no offense but you sound a bit like those peaple a decade ago who thought digital download games would'nt take away all of Gamestop's buisness - or the peaple a decade or so before that who thought Blockbuster would survive Netflix.

 

I mean, I think films are still going to be seen by more people than any given TV show because (up until COVID) "hey let's go see a movie" is (was) still a thing, and there are only so many out a time, so a fair amount of people will just go see the big movie of the week, without it being necessarily something they are excited about to begin with or will remember later. It's kind of a numbers vs. cultural currency/zeitgeist thing. So when we're talking about SW in particular I think it's fair to say that with the theatrical numbers declining since TFA and Mando (and maybe even TCW) getting more engagement and meme-ry and such, yeah, currently the franchise is driven more by TV than the films. Other franchises like MCU, not so much. But I think that's about what's going on from franchise to franchise than general audience trends.

And look, I say that as someone who rates TFA, TLJ and R1 as top tier and SOLO just fine, with only TROS deserving its bad rep. There's just little question that various factors caused the SW features to fall off in relevance fairly rapidly, while the singular quality of The Mandalorian deservedly elevated it to a standalone height that the side-story and b-list MCU shows just don't hit. The modest streaming show just plain outshone the tired whimper of the end of the marquee feature saga and that's just how it worked out. More than any of the other films, SOLO and TROS call into question what's even worthy of feature status as far as Star Wars goes, so it will be very, very interesting to see what Disney decides to go with -- if I were them, I would not have a clue. The Saga's out of steam and the side stories feel better on the small screen, but I bet they're still leery of trying something totally new for fear that it won't hit without a nostalgia fallback.

 

@FiveFireRings

T.V is also a good place to appeal to Niche (nichè) audiences. They don't have to appeal to everyone and still be considered successful with low risk.

Make a T.V Show about Clones there a audience for that

A T.V Show about the Rebels character post Rebels there's a audience for that.

Heck if you wanna make a dark story about Two Sith Lords doing Sith things there's a audiences for that.

A cartoony show about Pilots where the characters are wacky and silly but have a good heart there is a audience for that

Are all of these large audiences grabbers no, but the nice thing about T.V is that you don't need mega large audiences to make these things successful. you just need a solid base and that's it, they don't have to be for everyone so they can make very specific types of Stories for T.V unlike films that have to appeal everyone.

I think that might in the long term be a good thing, give a certain slice of fandom a piece of pie for them to devour so they can at least have "THEIR" Star Wars and not have to be so invested in the big tent pool stuff that may not always appeal when juggling the various aspects that make Star Wars Star Wars

(This is different by the way from diversity on camera and behind the scenes I wanna see lots of that of course in terms of hirings)

Not yet anyway, but now that the T.V stuff is finally sorted out maybe now they can a bit more ;p


The end all be all Irony at the end of the day is this is EXACTLY more or less what George Lucas the maker wanted. He was focusing so much on T.V that his last big project was the never made Star Wars Underworld TV Series that never happened.

So Star Wars going to T.V is natural ...Because George wanted it.