The "Why Qui-Gon realistically lost to Maul" discussion thread .

I thought it was obvious that the only reason Dooku and even Sidious are so good at an old age, is because they are using the dark side to enhance their abilities?

 

Or the Force in general. Look at Yoda.

 

My question always was 'why didn't QG ever wait up for Obi-Wan so they could fight them together?'

 

A lightsaber to the chest, makes you the loser.
Maul was just a better warrior, simple. Qui-Gon was good fighter, but Maul was younger, faster.

 

Did you miss where I wrote this :

"Qui-Gon could not wait for Obi because he couldn't stop blocking Maul's attack or let Maul get away. I don't quite think Qui-Gon uneretimated Maul because he had already had a sample of Maul had to give him on Tatooine. I guess he did underestimate him in some ways, on Tatooine, Maul only used one side of his saber but that isn't the main threat either . Qui-Gon had to fight Maul when the beem doors opened, there is no way Maul would also wait until Obi came ."

Oh and good points Jabba-Wocky. Maul was an apprentice but could have been very high in skill .

 

If QG hadn't rushed out of the beams, Maul would've surely rushed in. You think Maul was just going to let both of them regroup and get their heads straight before resuming the duel? Hell no. Maul was a Sith. And sith go for the quickest, easiest means. Divide and Conquer.

 

Qui Gon lost because Maul slammed his saber into his face and then took advantage of Ginn being distracted for a second and got the quick stab in the chest.

 

I don't think Darth Maul was any better Qui-Gon Jin what I think did happen was factors surrounding the fight led to his defeat.

1. Preparation: Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan both were suprised by the confontation of the Sith. Therefore it is doubtful that either had really made a plan on how best to dispatch him. Darth Maul on the other hand had probably done nothing but prepare for this confrontation. Think of it in terms of a profesional sports team...the side with the best scouting and preparation will win a large majority of the time regardless of talent. Imo the entire fight from where it began to where it ended had been carefully planned by Darth Maul and Darth Sidious.

2. Pre-fight: Qui-Gon had been fighting before the duel. Darth Maul was well rested.

3. Focus: Qui-Gon was not completely focused on the fight since he was distracted other issues such as protecting the queen, dispute with Jedi Council over Anakin, etc. This is evident since while the two were seperated by the force field he spent the time meditating. Darth Maul didn't need to since had already had adequate time to do so prior to the duel.

4. Age: As has been said numerous times in this thread his age played probably a minor role in his defeat however it was still another added factor. Not to mention Darth Mauls agressive style probably tired Qui-Gon Jin faster than usual.

None of these factors individually led to his defeat but combined it gave the Sith just enough edge to strike him down.

 

Good Analysis.

Also, the sith have not been around for a WHILE and Qui-Gon and Obi have deffinatly not fought one before. They hae trained amongst other Jedi of course but Jedi don't train underSith circumstances . Maul gave them a Sith duel . So Qui-Gon could not know what he had awaiting him .

Another thing ,D_Tiburon the focus toic you said could be true. Or not. In a duel, a Jedi would only concentrate on the present and what's set before him. He has to maintain his concentration .

 

Qui-Gon could not wait for Obi because he couldn't stop blocking Maul's attack or let Maul get away. I don't quite think Qui-Gon uneretimated Maul because he had already had a sample of Maul had to give him on Tatooine. I guess he did underestimate him in some ways, on Tatooine, Maul only used one side of his saber but that isn't the main threat either . Qui-Gon had to fight Maul when the beem doors opened, there is no way Maul would also wait until Obi came .

Oh, I meant lo....ng before that! Qui-Gon fell very neatly into Maul's trap of separating the two Jedi. Maul cleverly realized that he couldn't defeat both of them at once. He kicked Obi-Wan far below. Qui-Gon then kicked him, and pursued him on his own without waiting for Obi-Wan to join him. The two Jedi could have easily regrouped then while Maul was picking himself up. But... I am sure Qui-Gon thought that as Jedi master, he could take him on his own.

Later, Qui-Gon sat down to meditate on just the other side of the barrier from Maul. Why? Why not run back to the barrier near Obi-Wan, so that the next time the laserbeams cycled, they could be in sync? Qui-Gon forgot the advantage gained in fighting together; it's too bad that with his focus on the moment, he didn't realize that he was playing into Maul's trap, and running to face a slightly superior saberist.

 

I think the answer to this question is simple: He feared the Maul would try to get away. And he wanted to take care of him. Plain and simple. They were there to STOP Maul, not play games and risk him running away. I think that if the Jedi were to regroup, Maul would have most definately ran away.

Remember in AOTC, Obi-Wan and Anakin arguing on the battleship? Obi-Wan didn't want Dooku to get away. Same principle applies here.

 

Yes I was going to mention that fact but I felt I had covered it in preparation. You are correct that a Jedi is trained to focus on the moment but this was an extra-ordinary situation that I think would be overwhelming for anyone including a Jedi. Qui-Gon had ALOT on his plate and he kept piling it on as he set out to help fulfill the prophecy.

 

The talk of Qui-Gon not letting Maul escape has to be true because there is no way he would let Maul have a chance to escape, he knows the Sith haven't been around in a WHILE sohe had to try and take this one out . Maul would have ended up going to Sidious.

 

Well I for one think that Maul was simply better. That and Qui-Gon hadn't faced a Sith before. Maul had been trained to kill Jedi. I don't think Qui-Gon was trained to fight Sith. It's totaly new arena for him. Same for Maul to some extent except, Mauls training probably focused on killing Jedi. So Maul was better, not much, but better anyway. As for Obi; Maul was suprised initially of Obi's fury but overcame him. And ofcourse he had to gloat and make a stupid mistake that cost his life.

 

Maul wouldn't have lasted 2 minutes against either Yoda or Mace.

 

It was the will of the Force that Qui-Gon lost to Maul...the Force being defined as the finalized script for TPM, of course.

 

Basically I believe in these reasons why Maul beat Qui-Gon....

1. Qui-Gon Jinn was a believer in keeping his mind on the present and so didn't want Darth Maul to escape or perhaps kill Obi-Wan. So he took him on his own...

2. Qui-Gon Jinn was getting fatigued taking on the Sith Lord by himself. Even though Maul was younger than Qui-Gon that was not his advantage. Darth Maul's advantage was that he was prepared to face a Jedi but Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan where never ready to face a Sith.

3. It is indeed harder to face an opponent with a double-bladed lightsaber. Maul proved that!!! Also by the end of the battle Qui-Gon was more foreful in his blows and less agile or swift. This was foolhardy on his part....

4. The end of the battle is also symbolic... It shows Qui-Gon's true weakness which is a lack of foresight. He was always in the here and now but was not mindful enough of the future. Ala...Anakin.

 

My own opinion is very similar to the reason given in the Novel. Basically Qui-Gon was just ever so slightly past his Prime (in terms of age) and when he and Obi-Wan got seperated, it meant that Maul's youth and agility was just too strong for him.

Remember, Maul almost killed Obi-Wan, too. He was an amazing warrior!

I completely agree with that.

 

One word: AGE

 

3 words: Douku,Yoda, and sidious

 

Actually, thats four words.


Though I do believe in the argument of age, as stated in my previous post in this thread, I do find the fact that Qui Gon appears to be quite tired from their first battle in the desert a little perplexing (considering how quick the fight was). This could be because he had been running, but perhaps it could be because of Maul's speed in combat.

I guess maybe there was several factors, including his age, that ultimately led to his demise.

Just my opinion.

 

As George Lucas himself said: "The Dark Side is the stronger side"

I agree that Darth Maul won because he's more powerful than Qui-Gon and Obi Wan in Episode I (Ewan MacGregor stated that Obi-Wan is MUCH more powerful in Episode II than Episode I). I also agree that Yoda or Mace would steamroll over him in under a minute. If Maul had survived, he probably would have taken on Dooku's role in Episodes II and III.

It's ironic that Ray Park is by far the best swordsman, yet his character is the weakest of the Sith Lords. Samuel L. Jackson, on the other hand, can't wield a sword to save his life, and his character is the most powerful.

 

Not to get too picky but on Tatooine, it was like boiling weather also.

Oh and DarthZome, yeah, it's funny about Mace and Maul but remember, it takes a lot more than swordsmanship to be a powerful Sith Lord/Jedi Master or whatever .

 

3 more words..... read the book

 

If you look closely, Obi-Wan sees the final blow coming. Why? Its all about the feet baby! Maul was positioned to close and at a dangerous angle, Qui-Gon should have seen this but he didn't and so he was subsceptible to this type of attack.

Beautiful scene, I like how its so simplistic.