Thesaurus - Tool or Crutch?

MariahJade2

The book is The 38 Most Common Fiction Writing Mistakes. And number 19 was titled, Don't be afraid to say,"said".

The authors opinion was that "said" was a transparent word-a pointer to a who, who said something. He said that "any other attribution word will stick out and perhaps distract the reader without need unless the situation really does demand a "scream" or a "sigh" or a "shout". You should use the invisble word "said" 90 percent of the time.

That's interesting. Personally I see it as a matter of taste. There are some writers who use it almost exclusively...I'm currently reading a book "Passage" by Connie Willis and it's a case in point where the near exclusive use of the word "Said" gets to be downright annoying. She uses it for everything - even when she should be using "asked."

In my early fanfics I used "said" exclusively and I've been working on altering - even so much so that I created charts from the thesaurus on different words you could use as replacements. I don't refer to it very often unless my short list of usuals don't quite sound right. I did this because I wanted to push my craft and that was an area that I determined where I needed help.

Personally I use the thesaurus less than I used to. I've never been one to re-write whole passages w/ using the tool. I always figure that if you're doing that you're covering up your voice. It's not a crime to write in a simplistic tone. Sometimes I think writers tend to forget that fact.

 

Maybe it's not really "said" that's the problem. Perhaps we notice it more when the writing surrounding and supporting it is lacking in some way.

 

I use a thesaurus alot... but that's usually because I can't remember what the exact word is I want to use and I have one that means the same thing, so I use the thesaurus to find it. Using a thesaurus can be a tool or a crutch depending on the use of it... if you're using it for words that you haven't used very much during your writing then I think it's just making your writing too intellectual (I used a thesaurus here. ) for you. You have to use words that you might find yourself saying in everyday conversation, not words that your readers have no clue what they mean. I think that if you use a thesaurus the correct way than they're nothing wrong with using it but if you find yourself using the thesaurus the wrong way, like having a character say 'scrumptious' instead of 'delicious' than you're overusing. (yes, that example is from me. i had to step away from the thesaurus for a while when my beta pointed out my over-usage of it )

Having someone who checks your work and points out to you the stupidity of using some of the words you find yourself using more often is really a great way to make sure the thesaurus is only a tool and not a crutch. You could even do that for yourself. A thesaurus is only meant to help you so try to use it that way.

 

Said is an interesting word. Like character names and pronouns, it's more or less invisible. On the other hand, a few alternatives once and a while do keep things from getting boring. Not glaringly, just enough to spice things up.

Generally I use a thesaurus when I realize that I'm about to use a word for the third time in a paragraph and I know there are other words, I just can't think of them.

 

A great way to make the thesaurus (and the dictionary) a tool and not a crutch is to use a bound paper one and keep it in a bookcase. If you have to get up every time you want to use it you are not going to overuse it. I use the thesaurus two ways. When I know there is a word that means exactly what I want but I can't remember the fruiting word. Or when I want to go on a word safari. When I do have it out, I inevitably read the thesarus for fun just like I do the dictionary. Reading a lot of different things helps too.

I find it is also very helpful to read what you have written after letting some time elapse so that you are no longer enamored of those particular words and phrases. See if it really sounds like the person you are writing. Anakin at 9 is not going to sound the same as Anakin at 49. Padme might sound different than Amidala. Or not, depending on your take on the character. Descriptive phrases still need to blend in too. A description of a hospital in a story where you are following 9 year old Anakin, as he accompanies his accident-prone master with minor injuries, would use different words and phrases than one where you are following Vader, just before RotJ, as he enters the same hospital for yet another attempt at removing his dependance on the suit.

Hemingway is single-handedly responsible for my avoidance of English (and American) Lit classes from the moment I had the option to do so. Which was probably younger than it should have been. 9th grade I think. I loathed "Old Man and the Sea" and went right off "literature" that wasn't Shakespeare.

In hindsight that probably makes Hemingway responsible for my career choice and therefore for my meeting my hubby. Which would mean I owe him a great deal. Possibly even enough to take another stab at reading him...

KD

 

I know exactly what you mean about "ormai" and "anzi," GuerreStellari. Although English is my first language, I speak and write Italian fluently ? my notes for school are quite often bilingual. It works both ways, though ? there isn't any real word for "privacy" in Italian, which frustrated me on several occasions when I tried to speak to my Italian friends. When my family is at home, we use "ormai" all the time, as well as words like "oltre" and "anzitutto," which often become phrases when translated into English. (Oh, and my personal favorite, "cianfrusaglie," which means "junk." It's such a cluttered word that it just fits its meaning much better than the English equivalent. ) Some words are simply indescribable. Sometimes I wish I could write in both languages, using the best words from each.

I use "said" whenever I can. It is truly an invisible word ? I don't think I've ever noticed an author using it too much. I do notice, however, when the characters are so busy murmuring, stuttering, shouting, articulating, mumbling, and pronouncing that I can't concentrate on what they're saying. There really isn't a substitute for "said." I generally try to make it obvious within the dialogue who's talking and his or her tone of voice, thus avoiding having to elaborate altogether.

KD: I know what you mean about letting something sit for a while. When I'm tired or angry or emotionally involved outside my story, my characters tend to reflect that. My brother always says he can tell when I stayed up too late writing because my characters become sarcastic and refuse to say nice things to one another. I try to stay within the "voice" I've created for each character, but let me tell you, that's a lot harder than it looks. Of course, I'm sure you know that. I like your idea of having the thesaurus somewhere you can't reach it easily ? that would sure keep me in my computer chair.

Hemingway is single-handedly responsible for my avoidance of English (and American) Lit classes from the moment I had the option to do so. Well, I didn't dislike him quite that much, I have to say, but I know some others who do.

 

Hehe. Well, it looks like those of us who like "simple but effective" writing a la Hemingway are in trouble on these boards, if the opinions here are a representative sample.

Though I'd like to add that another way to make your writing interesting without being bland or sounding like you are just being pretentious is to aim for a certain cadence or rhythm within your writing, especially if it relates to the content. You might want a more poetic feel during a mushy or introspective scene, and when it's time for action, short, sharp precise sentences can reinforce the feeling of having blaster bolts flying everywhere.

As for using "said:" I agree with Xaara - it's better not to overdo it with flashy tags, it works for me to use "said" except when I want to emphasize something, which makes it stand out even more.

-Tim

 

For me it is definitely a tool. I used to use it fairly frequently. Nowadays I find that I'm only using it on the average of once per post (@3-5 Word pages).

Whenever I resort to pulling out my Thesaurus, it isn't so much that I'm looking for new and different words. Mostly I'm trying to remind myself of the possibilities I may have overlooked. As Geo3 said, specific words convey different moods. Usually I'm seeking something that would better set the tone I want.

I do agree that it can overwhelm an author's original voice, but only if they pick words they don't use in the course of normal conversation. I absolutely won't use a word that doesn't already reside in my vocabulary because the truth is, just because a word is listed as synonymous doesn't mean it is interchangeable.

 

Though I do keep my Thesaurus on a shelf away from my pc where I have to get up to go use it, the main reason I avoid referencing it unless there is a word I really want to use but just can't think of off the top of my head is because many of the words listed are not interchangeable with the word I originally looked up, but rather exclusive examples of the original. For instance, "scarlett" and "maroon" might both be listed as synonyms for "red", but they are two completely different shades of red. I would never use a thesaurus to put a word I didn't already know the meaning of into my story; I'd be too afraid of misusing things. Besides, I have a fairly extensive vocabulary, so if I don't know a word, there's a good chance most readers won't know it either. I already have to "dumb down" day-to-day conversations on occasion as it is.

 

I already have to "dumb down" day-to-day conversations on occasion as it is.

Never, never, never dumb down anything. Make them work for it if they have to. How else are they going to learn new words? Confession of a vicious person: When I wrote a lot of reports in my previous job, I would run it through Word's grammar checker to see what "grade level" it would list. If it didn't show as at least an 8th grade level, I often reworked the report until it did. Because everyone reading the report was supposed to be a college/university graduate and thus in my estimation ought to be capable of reading at an 8th grade level. I once got a short report that I was irritated about having to write down to a single sentance (and 10th grade level iirc). I was very proud of that one. Yes, I am an evil person.

KD

 

Darth_Tim Fear not! I love Hemingway's style, I just don't like his plots (a bit too dreary and sad). I personally prefer simplistic writing because it feels stronger to me, not watered down by unnecessary descriptions. I feel that short, blunt sentences written with strong, active verbs carry a lot more OOMPH than endless, flowery run-ons.

If the plot is strong (which is, IMO, very important), the author shouldn't depend on descriptive words. Example: if someone's eyes are blue, they are blue. Maybe hard, old blue eyes that bore into you. But please not eyes the hue of a midnight ocean, with elegant, fluttering eyelashes, and weary creasemarks drawn deep into an ancient face. GAH! Eyelashes! Creasemarks! Ocean! GAH! Too many images, I've forgotten what I was reading about! Where's the point! See what I mean?

Did this have anything to do with a thesaurus? No. Though, I could have used one for my example above. I can't find it, though.

 

I use a thesaurus much the way geo3 does - to find a word that expresses my idea with a certain mood or nuance, to make it fit better within the overall context of what I'm writing.

 

The "synonymous with..." idea doesn't work for thesaurus use because of connotation, as well as outright meaning, as in the case of 'maroon' and 'scarlet'.

Connotation is implied meaning or associative meaning: layers of the meaning of a word: for instance 'maiden' means 'girl', but it also means 'virgin'. (It also means 'horse that has never won a race', but that's for the post going into alternate meanings. )

I have some fluency with Irish, and one of the vbest things about that language, at least in it's older literary usage (AD 500-900) is how *thick* it is, so many layers of meaning and connotation to every word, (and best of all, sometimes, the layers can be completely contradictory). One of the words for 'strong' also means 'coarse, rough', another one means 'fat-thighed'.

English has fewer examples of that, although for example, 'fair' means 'just' as well as 'pale' or 'blonde', (In Irish, the word for 'fair' also means 'woman').

Associative meaning is harder to take into account. The associations individuals have about certain words cannot be predicted beyond a very general level ('sweet' means the same thing to pretty much everyone: it is a shared human experience, so it is a universally common point of reference). However, I have negative connotations associated with the word 'manipulate' as to me, it means to use a person, to twist him around into doing something he shouldn't do. It does have that meaning, but mostly it means to move or change something with one's hands. When I read "Anakin manipulated the controls.", I think: those poor controls! It detracts from the flow of the story and the meaning of the passage... for *me*. So I wouldn't have chosen those words, but most readers are going to understand what was meant.

If you are using a thesaurus at all, you should know the exact meaning and standard connotations of the words you are choosing. Associative meaning is harder to take into account. The word 'miasma' means a smell, but it has come to be used to describe a feeling as well. Because it has often been used to describe a sense of foreboding, the word has come to have negative connotations, and now it can be hard to use it correctly, to mean a scent or odour, good or bad.

It's a pretty thorny issue, and basically, every author has to decide for themselves. Like most writing resources, it can be used well and it can be misused.

I don't really want to get in on the whole spare prose = strong prose vs descriptive = transporting debate (although that would make a fun new thread... ), but I have to add that it is as subjective as the readership. At the current moment, the market wide open is for heavily descriptive fiction, since if people are paying ten dollars for a paperback, they want their money's worth. In the forties and fifties, people didn't have as much leisure time, so stories were shorter and easier to set down and pick back up again. Furthermore, authors were paid by the word, so to save money, publishers bought spare prose. Too often the economic factors are forgotten when people are discussing what makes great literature. Don't forget, Shakespeare was paid for his plays, but he likely wrote those sonnets for free.


*Derisa*

 

Very good article ! *thumbs up*

About the different meaning of a word : That's why I use up to three dictionaries when writing in English; it might well be that only one doesn't "tell me the whole story" ...

 

Wow, this is an interesting debate. I've skimmed through most of it, not enough time to really get into too much depth, but I found what was said fascinating.

Personally, I find a Thesaurus to be helpful, but I don't go running to it every five words. I was never much of a reader in school, hated English and failed most of my English classes. I know my biggest writing faults are comma usage and fragments. Don't know if I'll ever get over those, and in some ways I don't want to. They add flavour to my stories while I hope they don't detract too much for those that are nitpicky.

I did take a few things from my English classes, mostly that variety is good unless over used. I hate reading the word said, said, said, said over and over. Too me it's boring and droll. It makes the dialogue static and lack emotion. I've aways felt the hardest part about writing isn't necessarily the story you are trying to convey(although that is extremely important if you want to capture an audience) but the imagery you want people to see.

Anyone can look at Blue, Yellow and Red and see them for what they are: Blue, Yellow and Red. Whoopee. What makes life so wonderous is all the varients and shades you can get by mixing those simple colors with other things. To create the Maroons, Scarlets, Lavenders, Mauves, Teals, and every other color imaginable.

I would like to think myself more of an artist than a writer. I want people to feel something when they read. To me reading something like:

Tom turned to Lisa and said, "I love you." *yawn*

But something like:

After lighting the last flickering candle he had scattered throughout the room, Tom settled on to the couch next to his beloved. Nestling closely, he wrapped his arm around her and whispered in her ear, "I love you."

Now that gives depth and emotion the previous lacked.

A thesaurus is helpful but not something a writer should rely on wholeheartedly. I can see it being a hinderence if you are writing a technical report. Managers don't care if you repeat the same word twenty times in the same paragraph as long as its concise and get's the point across. But when writing something you want people to enjoy, I would say go for it. And don't be afraid to follow your own path. Be true to who you are and your own style. It's true to an extent that using words you are unfamiliar with can be misused and over bearing, but to ignore the possibilities of creating a picture of beauty than a simple stick figure? I would rather read something that feels like the author really loves what they are doing than following the static code of guidlines.


Well, that's my two cents. Off to slide back into the wood work.

 

No, no! I disagree!

Tom turned to Lisa and said, "I love you." *yawn*

Do not yawn! I, for one, found the first example much more powerful than the second!

Simplicity is good. It hits you like a wall: bham! Right there! No frills about it. So many authors here on the boards, very talented people, get lost in the "literariness" of their writing, that it begins to lose effect. The point, whatever it may be, gets lost in this very detailed, very wordy description. Unless the gentle fluttering of someone's eyelashes is somehow representative of their wishy-washy attitude (oh, I don't know) I'd say don't even mention it.

I will admit that I'm a big minimalist in life (I like white walls and plain bagels), so maybe this comes through in my writing/reading preference.

Anyway, I'm going to steal this topic away from the Thesaurus thread, since we're sort of branching out here, and begin a new thread...

 

Hmmm.


I don't use the thesaurus much when I write. I like to think a have a large vocabulary, and often I don't turn to the tool when I probably should. I don't like using it that often because I believe what flows from your fingers is your true meaning of what you want it to be.

And now I'm going to be a hypocrite and say sometimes the words get jumbled in my brain and I have to turn to the tool because I'll never be complete without it. There are times when I want to scream because I can't find the right word, and I have to look at it.

But that's just me.

-Krystal

 

I most often use a thesaurus for coming up with titles, when I get obsessed with trying to capture something I can't quite identify. When I'm into what I'm writing, I just go with my instincts. [I admit having a larger vocabulary than I'd ever use in my fiction.]

On the "said" issue, I used to listen to the teachers who told us we should always use more descriptive words. In some of my early stories, I'd write several thousand words and never use the same "said" variant twice. Now I'm closer to the opposite position, but the truth is that for most dialogue, I don't use any such verb. If the context makes it clear who's talking, they're unnecessary. For example, to edit the line above...

Tom turned to Lisa. "I love you."

And it's gone from nine to seven words. I might punch up the first sentence a bit, but it'd stay two sentences.

 

I'm hoping my use of the Microsoft Word Thesaurus is just as a tool - sometimes I get tired of using the same words over and over again, so I highlight the word and use thesaurus for some other word suggestion.

So, sometimes it may be a crutch, but most of the time its a tool.

 

Just a few quick thoughts inspired by posting at the spawn thread of this one?

Like Drabbo I write at least half my dialogue, maybe more, without a pointer verb like ?said? at all.

As for the ?I love you? discussion ? I think it depends on context. For writing the Anakin/Padmé fireside chat in AOTC, I?d definitely prefer something like Arldetta suggests: lots of descriptions of the room, their body language, their eyes, their tone of voice, the emotions of whomever?s POV we?re in (and their assessment of the other?s), and so on. There?s so much going on in that scene, I think the failure to be descriptive would be a real loss to the emotional impact of that crucial moment. For a line like, ?I can?t? We can?t? It?s just not possible,? I?d want to know more than just that Padmé said it. I?d want to know she was whispering, leaping to her feet and backing away, refusing to look Anakin in the eyes, and much more. Sure, the line has power. But a fully described context gives it much more power.

On the other hand, consider a scene like Han and Leia at the shield generator bunker in ROTJ ? I don?t think any description is necessary at all, given how well we know those characters. Like GuerreStellair I?d probably write that simply as:

?I love you.?

?I know.?

Han stepped aside, and Leia fired.

That?s all we need to know ? our knowledge of the characters tells us the rest (Han's self-satisfied smirk, Leia's grin in return, etc.). Using a thesaurus and adding descriptions wouldn?t add anything IMHO.

 

Personally, I use a thesaurus when I'm looking for a certain word that I can't quite pin down.

But I also use it to replace words like "look" and "turn." Especially in a paragraph where there's intense dialogue and a character is pacing back and forth, sometimes synonyms can greatly help.

But it is just as easy to describe something by using simple concrete words. One thing that my creative writing professor has stressed day in and day out is the need for using solid, concrete words.

Actually, I have a perfect example of this, courtesy of my rhetoric teacher. He says "Use good, short, Anglo-Saxon words! No one comes up to someone else and shouts 'INTERCOURSE YOU!'"

Now, while none of us would be using that particular Anglo-Saxon word, you get my rather over-exaggerated point. You can be detailed and descriptive without being affected.

~Rogue