Books Thrawn Alliances Book - Summer 2018

It's not a contest..

 

I was merely commenting on how different our experiences were with the narrative. I found this to be one of Zahn's quicker paced novels, moreso than the previous Thrawn novel, or the Allegiance/Choices of One duology.

 

And I was just making a joke, more directed at Yunzabit than you.

I don't find it quick paced at all, it's constantly broken up with huge chunks of clunky dialogue of Thrawn saying "My theory is X" and Anakin/Vader saying "But have you considered Y" and Thrawn countering with "Yes that's a good point, but Z" and then Vader/Anakin saying "Ah yes, good point".

 

Can't you let me have anything?

 

Well it’s a mystery novel dressed up with adventure elements so such things are par for the course. Personally I didn’t have a problem with the dialogue or find it any different than usual...if I’m reading a book where Thrawn is one of the protagonists I expect it to have that methodical detective element to it.

 

I guess it just felt a lot smoother in Thrawn with less clunky back and forth, but it's all subjective.

 

Holmes himself was never a particularly interesting character for me, this whole dispassionate genius shtick just never seemed realistic, more like someone suffering from a serious mental condition. House was better, because the whole brokenness was more obvious and in the forefront for him. He also had more humanness in his interactions with his subordinates and friends. The reviews make it sound like this is your typical Zahn fanboyish Thrawn who is constantly made to look better than Vader (sometimes I wonder if Zahn has an axe to grind?) while overplaying that cool intellect cliché, so I think I'll give this a pass.

 

That’s too bad, because it’s really not. This is by far Zahn’s best Vader and his most vulnerable Thrawn.

 

My favorite book

 

I read a chapter or two a night. I like longish chapters and it spaces it out a little bit. Especially given there’s such a large gap between books.

 

I would recommend reading the book, not just reviews (I have come across a fair range of different opinions in reviews, some of which I share some which I don't. Personal preference I guess.)

Both Vader and Thrawn have their strong and week moments. And this is in no way "fanboy Zahn". While that accusation could be levelled at "Outbound Flight" (again, not by me but I understand where others come from), here Thrawn is not shown as perfect or always right.

Right from the start and repeatedly throughout the book, Atollon is presented as a failure (remember the discussions about this right after the end of Rebels Series 3? When it was argued that surely the destruction of the rebel fleet counted as major victory? Well, Vader and the Emperor disagree.)

Vader tells Thrawn "No!" several times, in one instance actually dictating how a particular part of a space battle will take place - in no uncertain terms. In another he gets Thrawn to admit more of the Emperor's plans than he had intended. And overall he is not fooled by Thrawn's continued attempts to hide information from Vader which could prevent Thrawn from achieving his own agenda. As a result Thrawn gets somewhat pushed into a corner and is forced to give way far more than he would have preferred - and definitely would not have done had Vader not been there. A very far cry from the Thrawn/Vader relationship in the legends short story "Side Trip".

At the end of the book I felt Thrawn is so intent on walking the fine line between (seemingly?) keeping his oath to the Empire and his desire to protect his own people that he effectively deludes himself by not realising the threat Palpatine actually represents. Palpatine running the Galaxy with an iron fist, contemplating the destruction of whole worlds is better than the Grysk exactly how?

Like Thrawn still believes what he told Nightswan - that he would try and make sure to promote a better person to become Emperor once the current one was gone. Not going to happen with a Sith!

The slippery slope started in the first Thrawn novel continues. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and for me Thrawn is well on his way there.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

Even his loyalty to the Chiss Ascendancy is presented as somewhat negative, given that it's implied to be at least somewhat authoritarian and corrupt.

 

I'm a huge fan of the original Thrawn trilogy from the 90s and really enjoy the Thrawn Duology as well, but this book was a real letdown for me. Seeing Thrawn through the eyes of Cap. Pellaeon or Mara Jade makes him a much more interesting character than when we're with him constantly. The veiled hints of his Anakin Skywalker references went on forever. I was really rooting for Vader to choke him at some point.

I think the biggest limitation for writing him at this point is trying to force feed him into all of these situations without directly messing up the existing canon. It worked OK in Thrawn (2017) because when you unmake all the Legends stuff, you have a whole lot of territory to cover for what happens between III and IV. When he was writing Thrawn in the early 1990s, he literally had the entire universe to play with.

I don't consider myself the smartest book reader, but it irked me how little detail I was getting about actual situations. Every encounter had 50 things going on below the surface that only Thrawn was aware of. And there details were so sparse, I had no idea what was going on.

I also couldn't grasp the inherent need for such secrecy between Anakin & Padme about their marriage. Why should they be so worried about Thrawn - the alien from another galaxy that no one has ever heard of or seen - knowing they are husband and wife? Is he going to blog about it or put it on his Instagram? The same was true to a lesser degree with Vader/Thrawn. If Thrawn knows he's really Anakin, what's he going to do with that information? Tell Boba Fett next time they're playing canasta?

 

I don't think Vader likes the idea of anyone knowing who he was before he put on the mask. Someone knowing his secret, even if they were an Imperial, it would probably make him feel vulnerable which...isn't really something Sith take well to.

 

I know some about keeping secrets. I had to keep a secret since childhood and now even discussing it with people who are in on it feels inexplicably wrong.

I totally buy that Anakin & Padmé would feel anxious about their little secrets even if they don't have a rational reason to do so.

@ Rennzwerg
But is Thrawn presented as a being that feels base emotions like fear, love, anger or sadness? If not, I doubt he'll interest me very much.
Like I said I like the more humane versions of Holmes like Dr. House or even Thanoth.

 

I ended up enjoying this one quite a bit by the time the plot really started to get going. I read the first half chapter by chapter daily, and I wasn't a big fan of the first half. I read the second half along 2 days and enjoyed it much more. I liked seeing Vader/Thrawn and Anakin/Thrawn, and the hints that Thrawn knew and was trying to pry a admission out of Vader- with no success. Thrawn was a bit too "I know everything" throughout but that's his thing. Didn't care much for the double vision thing. Didn't seem necessary.

I liked this one more than the first, and am interested to see if Eli Vanto and the Chiss Ascendancy play a part in the third part. There was a good deal of information near the end that has me intrigued. Maybe some tie-up with the Rebels finale. IDK how much animation has their claims staked on that story though.

 

Well, for Thrawn we see more emotions than usual for him. I am sure he has feelings but keeps them wrapped with iron control. He is definitely not like House. Part of his mystique has always been that you don't get to see his emotions. It is alluded to a few times and you can deduce his regret / sadness / anguish at some of the events. But the contrast to, say, Anakin is quite stark, who usually wears his emotions on his sleeve.

And I totally understand why you would not be interested in Thrawn as a character. I happen to like Sherlock Holmes and Thrawn but would also agree that the former certainly has some mental disposition that is not "normal". Thrawn could be explained as just being alien.

In fact, at one point Anakin "scans" Thrawn's mind with the Force and describes it as being "neat and well ordered", with the contents of his patterns of thought "and the muted emotions accompanying it, [...] completely opaque. It was like a neat and precise array of unfamiliar numbers."

Definitely not as immediately complex as House (whom I also really enjoy to watch by the way ).

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

Add me to the list of people who are finding this book a bit of slog. Between the over-complicated plotting, too-long explanations of said plotting, and Thrawn's apparent need to save up all these little mysteries for a big reveal, I feel hugely impatient with most chapters, especially the Vader/Thrawn ones.

Agreed about Thrawn, but I really cannot get into Vader in this book. He's too talky, EXTREMELY petty, and just...meh. I do really like him referring to Anakin internally as "The Jedi."

Vader is, at his best, balanced between dark sass and casual murder. I don't see a lot of either of those here.

Somebody write this fic IMMEDIATELY.

 

Heh. Something I just thought of. The idea that Vader refers to Anakin as "The Jedi" gives the title Return of the Jedi a fun new spin.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

Not really, RTJ was always meant to be a plural meaning title, including Anakin Skywalker the Jedi returning

 

I agree with the comments that I thought this was a fast paced novel. I found myself zipping through it and I think enjoying it more than the first Thrawn novel. Bear in mind I've never read HTTJ, and my knowledge of Thrawn is limited to the new canon.

I thought Padme was written very well indeed, she married up very well to TCW Padme. Thrawn was , well Thrawn. I always find him vastly more intelligent in the books than he is in Rebels mind.

The point about Atollon is right though. It was a failure for both parties. The Phoenix cell were decimated, but as they were not eradicated meant the Empire saw it as a failure.

Combined with the input on Bendu acting as an excuse as Thrawn having no knowledge of force user's not being exactly truthful, Vader's contempt for Thrawn was significant.

I suspect Vader feels the empire were unlikely to get any more information about the UR from him and were grateful for the space whales!

 

The book was great for me

 

I really enjoyed this book. I read it over a couple of days which is rather quickly, and so in parts I was losing my grasp of the plot threads - especially with the switching between the timelines. I found myself way more engaged in the Clone Wars era storyline than the current day storyline, because the latter seemed like it was mostly set up for future stories. Which was fine - I do understand that we can't have big stories in the novels now. Overall, I loved how all the characters were written and Thrawn in particular. These novels give him more depth than he could have had in Rebels and he's far more interesting than in the Legends-verse.

 

Rented it on audio. I tried and tried to get invested and I just couldn't. I really don't know why. Fell asleep multiple times, just bored. I enjoyed the the earlier Thrawn book, which I also listened to on audio. Unfortunately this one's probably going to rest unfinished for me. Though from what I read about it as a whole, it didn't really add very much . . . to the overall saga, to characterizations, to anything. (Not that a Star Wars book absolutely has to to be considered worthwhile, but it helps). Having not finished Alliances for myself though, I can't say for sure.