The Mandalorian Ahsoka Grand Admiral Thrawn

@godisawesome

Not sure if you ever watched Ds9 but in there a character named Gul Dukat who is a big nationalist for his people (And Fascist) at first tries to fight the big Evil Empire (The Dominion) to protect his people....Only to then sell out his people take power and ally with his people.

So I kinda would love it if Thrawn did join the First Order use it to take over the Chiss and sell out his own people because it was the "Pragamatic" thing to do.

 

I'd personally prefer him to stay villain for a very long time. I've never liked the latter Legends stories (and now a decent amount of Disney era books) seemingly retconning Thrawn into a guy with good intentions at heart. I much prefer the cold, calculating, yet honorable warrior from the Thrawn Trilogy. I never doubted at that time that Thrawn was a very real threat. The latter characterization just never made sense to me. Thrawn believes in order above all else. He has appreciation of culture, knowledge, and technology; but even those were subservient to how he could apply them toward increasing order in the galaxy; valuing order far above freedom and the general social fabric. This was inherent in his original characterization, but Zahn and/or Lucasfilm wanted to make him a 'hero' due to his popularity. I never liked the idea they started planting that he was only kow-towing to fascism as a bulwark against a greater threat. I think it cheated his personality.

 

But that would be the complete opposite of what his character would do

 

It's Zahn all the way on the "Hero" angle.

 

I think the best way is to potray him morally grey. Even Rebels made him in the grey in the last episodes of rebels.

 

Zahn is the one who makes Thrawn a more of an anti hero type and I think they will honor that

 

I hope not...Cuz it stinks.

 

Even if it stinks I hate the idea of just being like screw what the person who created the character wants this is what I want

 

Well yeah because Zahn is a author and Filoni is the T.V guy...Sadly in the heireacy author is in the lower tier of things.

 

I guess I just hate the idea that a genius level intellect (who isn't such a bad guy) would think that aligning with fascists is acceptable against just about any threat. It's the equivalent of jumping on board with Nazi Germany because you have knowledge that the aliens from Independence Day are on the way. I think it makes more sense to just let everyone know about the threat than to just align with the most powerful, regardless of their morality.

I get that the survival of all (or any, depending on how far one wants to take such a thought) is more important than the oppression of some; but the Empire oppressed way more than just a few. Add in Palpatine's megalomania and the entire government and military's corruption, nepotism, and often outright incompetence, and I can't help thinking that any decent and smart person who was even willing to go that low would see that this is not an entity that is capable of defeating whatever this incoming threat is.

As to Zahn, I love him. I have signed copies of TTT that I got signed myself, in person. But, I'd rather he go back to his original characterization. They made heroes out of Mara and Karrde as well, he could have built either one of them. And did, quite well, even. Heck, I always thought Karrde's character was essentially a good version of Thrawn; that they were juxtoposed: Thrawn was the evil character with a position of power and Respect, Karrde was the good guy operating outside of civil and legal society. While I get why Mara could no longer really be his character (as her role grew far beyond occasional stories), Karrde was pretty much unused except for TTT and the Hand of Thrawn duology. And he'd be a great character to be recanonized, he doesn't have any of the extra baggage Mara does. But Thrawn is best as a villain, and I will have a hard time accepting him as anything else unless they do a lot of character development to get him there.

 

I think Fassbender's salary would knock the episode count down to about three per season, heh.

 

Lol, so true. But it’s Star Wars! Everyone wants to be in Star Wars!

 

Setting up Thrawn's characterisation in live action television and making an audience aware of who the guy is represents an ideal time right now IMO. The audience, especially the general audience, gets to know who he is before 10, 11 and 12 are released in the cinemas.

This is because, and its just my opinion, that the next threat needs to come from outside the galaxy (ie. The Grysk) and it storyline should require all opposing factions within the galaxy to come together and fight a common enemy; abit like in real life if aliens existed and attacked Earth.

Because for me, to rehash the same plotline of Imperials vs Rebels would be a little detrimental to any future films and there needs to be a fresh overall storyline going forward after TROS. And because the Chiss are long time enemies of the Grysk, it makes perfect sense for them to align themselves with the "Star Wars" galaxy to defeat a common enemy; and the perfect man for that who has had his foot in both camps at various points - Grand Admiral Thrawn.

So now is an ideal time for Lucasfilm to flesh out his characterisation on-screen on live action television so that when the day comes that calls for the next trilogy post-TROS, Thrawn is a well-known character by then.

 

Thrawn was fairly irredeemably evil on Rebels. "You misunderstand, captain. I'm not accepting surrenders at this time. I want you to know failure. Utter defeat. And know that it is I who delivers it crashing down upon you."

That's some Grade A villain stuff, I expect them to keep it up here. Now if they have more time to devote to him they could delve into his "All about the Chiss" backstory but even then, he just views others as pawns in the way of his ultimate goal.

 

I think the fundamental problem there is that the Chiss Ascendiancy isn’t a “nice” society and the grand tragedy of it being destroyed by fascism would ring hollow. It’s a neo feudalistic oligarchy where, save the privileged few born into the right families, children are taken from their homes at young ages and conscripted into military service where they’re taught to value the Ascendancy above all else.

But this is ultimately irrelevant, because I sincerely doubt Dave Filoni will even mention the Chiss, let alone base a dramatic arc around them.

 

Not like I would want them to because I love the ST and I don't think they would do it anyway, but I kind of realised something in that with the mention of this one name..... Thrawn..... Lucasfilm could, in effect, whitewash the ST and travel down another path of Star Wars: From A Certain Point Of View.

Of course it would totally mess up the chronological movie order with 7, 8 and 9 (as these films would be on an alternative timeline), but the mention of Thrawn in a similar timeframe (a few years after ROTJ) to that of Legends, Lucasfilm could actually reset what has happened post ROTJ. You could eventually have Din and Grogu meet up with Luke and Grogu is taken for training; and the Luke you get is similar to Legend's Luke being super-powerful and training the new wave of Jedi.

It would confuse the hell out of the general audience, but again, there is this Star Wars - From A Certain Point Of View. And you could even get a third alternate timeline - Legends, the ST version and a new "The Mandalorian" version.

Because at this stage, only the New Republic have been mentioned and there is no sign yet of The First Order; only Imperial Remnants. Sure there are hints at The First Order, but they can soon as be transformed into meaning something else.

I don't want them to do it because I love the ST, but if there was ever a moment where there could be a thought of re-setting, this would be it. Similar names, similar time periods, etc at this current time period - and all consistent across Legends, the ST and if they decided to make a third alternative timeline.

Just a left field thought.

 

This is Exactly what I’ve been Thinking.

In relation to episode S2E5chapter13, The Jedi, Ahsoka saw Kannan teach Ezra who was his Ezra’s Father figure and Ezra became a great young Jedi who saved his home world from Thrawn and the Empire.

But if in the Mandalorian Thrawn is back in the Outer Rim Worlds it implies Ezra and Sabine must be back, too, or dead.

‘Ahsoka certainly is acting if she is out for vengeance on Thrawn.

Who knows what Dave Filoni might retcon to meet the needs of The Mandalorian.

Thrawn would have kept Ezra alive for his high M-count if he thought the Empire might need it.

is there anyway Ezra could be “the Volunteer” or was that DNA, not blood that was need or is it Rey’s Dad?

And why would Thrawn not be back with the Chiss Ascendancy protecting his own people?

Like Kallas

I think the Chiss will definitely be featured, if not in The Mandalorian, then in an Ahsoka show if there is one. I would really like it to be a sequel to Rebels.

I also agree with Darthur that Filoni and Favreau might have Thrawn hoisted by his own petard. Causing his own people’s downfall but also due to the Chiss Ascendancy refusal to bend, progress and adapt as needed to a changing political situation.

 

I think Thrawn will appear in a separate show. Don't think they would cast Rosario Dawson as Ahsoka and only use her as an occasional guest star in The Mandalorian. Anyway I would much rather a show specifically dedicated to the old Rebels crew getting back together and finding Ezra and Thrawn, rather than shoehorning them into The Mandalorian which would reduce either them or Mando/Grogu to less central roles than they deserve.

As for Thrawn's characterisation, I am also not a fan of the literal space Nazi only being a space Nazi to protect his people. That's a bit too much to stomach, and Thrawn's characterisation in Rebels seemed very unambiguously villainous to me - I seem to recall him threatening to massacre civilians at least once. And I'm very happy with that. A highly intelligent and threatening villain will be great for other stories set post-ROTJ.

 

That's something they really could have included in the storyline between ROTJ and TFA to begin with.

It could have been the perfect fit (obviously with quite a few changes from the original story) between the end of ROTJ and the battle of Jakku. Just have him revigorate the Empire for a short time, then have his death, and afterwards go to the collapsing remnants getting beaten in a last ditch effort at the battle of Jakku. That leaves you with an interesting story you can flesh out at whatever point in time you want, and in whatever medium you choose.

 

I mean, ultimately I can’t see it because the impression I get is that while Thrawn himself is a shared custody thing between Filoni and Zahn, (with Filoni getting first dibs) the Chiss Ascendancy is pretty much Tim’s corner of the sandbox. The Ascendancy doesn’t feature in Rebels at all, isn’t even hinted at and Thrawn’s origins are irrelevant to his role as Grand Admiral. It all became relevant because Zahn started building it up by himself and using it in his books, but it hasn’t really featured elsewhere in canon.

Tim Zahn’s pretty beloved by the fandom and I get a very real sense that the people at Lucasfilm really love him too and want him to continue be a part of Star Wars. You just have to look at all the celebration and love they give to every new Thrawn release and how successful those books are in turn. So I ultimately don’t think Filoni and Favreau would essentially piss all that away and destroy what Tim’s built over the last few years.

Realistically, what I think will happen is, Filoni will have Thrawn leading an Imperial Remnant against the heroes, a version of that classic Heir to the Empire story, while Zahn will have a series of books dealing with the Chiss and Thrawn’s Imperial protégés against the Grysk. Both get to do their own thing, basically.

 

That was a deliberate choice by the writers. Theyve made that plain in interviews. He was devolping into interesting anti hero and even possible love interest for Kira and the writers didn't like that and so turned him into a 1 D bad guy to say no he's evil and you shouldn't be interested in him nothing else.

The What We Leave Behind documentary is also interesting as the actress Nana Visitor makes plain she was also against a Kira/Dukat relationship. She says she'll have Kira in a Cardassian relationship not Mark (referring to the actors real name rather than Dukat) and you hear the ooh by the others in the room. There's definitely more unsaid there imo

 

I have to say, I really like the idea of Thrawn and Gideon being part of rival factions. It could not only help re-contextualize both of them as new type of villains, but also a nice change of the usual heroes v. villains of the week.

 

The Thrawn mention was certainly interesting and unexpected. I did wonder if it was meant to be more of a tease for the (presumably) upcoming Rebels sequel show. But at the same time, it also feels like a tease for Thrawn eventually making his live-action debut. It would be a bit strange to name-drop such an important character here, only to have him not show up.

I still think, at some level, they are probably saving Thrawn for the next animated show. But hmm, how much of a role will he play here? Will it be a major role, and/or will Moff Gideon still be the main antagonist?

 

If he is meant to show up in The Mandalorian, I'm guessing there will be one more tease at the end of the season; something that let's Din and others understand that there are bigger things at play than what's been revealed so far.
Maybe we'll actually see Thrawn for a few seconds.

If he's not meant to show up in this series, I'm expecting another live-action show with Ahsoka as one of the main characters.
In that case, we might not see her again this season.