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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Books Thrawn: Treason by Timothy Zahn Summer 2019

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Force Smuggler, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. DarthInternous

    DarthInternous Editor - Del Rey Star Wars star 3 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2017
    I appreciate how much people have attached themselves to FARO in reading the book. She's a cool character and someone that Tim and I talked about centering more after Alliances. Because she serves as the Thrawn proxy here (the way Eli did in Book 1) it was critical that we make her a real character, with an arc, desires, etc. Otherwise the character just becomes a hollow sounding board for Thrawn and that's not interesting at all.

    As for the question that is being debated above:

    The real answer is...she's wherever she needs to be. If the best story is that she died at Lothal or is even marooned on that SD with Thrawn/Ezra, then that's where she is. If the best story is that she did indeed go to Coruscant and had a career, serving through to Endor/Jakku, then that's where she is.

    With a character/moment like that we generally don't set down any hard rules if it isn't going to be in one of our stories. We don't create a "canon" answer and stick it in a drawer for later. Like "oh btw, it isn't in Treason, but Faro is dead." When you hear people talk about "story flexibility" this is exactly the kind of thing they're talking about. There's no important reason for Treason to reveal or investigate her ultimate fate. It isn't core or important to the story, so rather than just close the loop with a throwaway line, we simply leave it unanswered for now. If there's a later story that Faro might make sense for, we'll investigate adding her to it and at that point, if we need to circle the square on how she escaped Lothal / did she even go there to begin with, we will.

    Though I will say, there's plenty of time in there for her to have left before Lothal. And Faro is a cool character so having her around for later stories is cooler than her just being dead at Lothal.

     
  2. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    I'm 12 chapters in and I've not been reading any spoilers.

    My non spoilery impressions so far:
    1. Blimey that's a random string of unlikely coincidences to get the story up and running, but events move so quickly and carry you along like a Doctor Who story. Really enjoying the pace and urgency.
    2. Zahn is back to writing science fiction! He's mixing in some hard AM into Star Wars' FM and it works here in exactly the way it didn't in TLJ.
    3. I get the impression that Thrawn's desire to coax advanced strategy from his underlings might be more than simply a Holmes/Watson narrative device. If what I'm thinking is what's going on, wow.
    4. I can't wait to find out how the admirals fix their persistent problems, and I hope one of them is suitably gruesome.
     
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  3. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Heh. A new addition to the club?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  4. DarthInternous

    DarthInternous Editor - Del Rey Star Wars star 3 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Lol, nah just an accident of typing.
     
  5. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Is it bad that I kind of felt robbed?

    The entire Grysk plotline felt like it was largely retreading the same ground as the previous book. Again we run into a Grysk advance mission that's up to no good, again it ends in a battle that's nice but is really just a skirmish in the grand scheme of things, and again we end on the note that the Grysks are out there and they're coming for the Empire... soon. No, really!

    They get fleshed out a little bit more, and most of what we see is perfectly fine - that they're slavers and mind-breakers, that they run a DS9-Dominion like operation where their race is at the top but lots of subject races go around doing their work for them, and hey, they get to speak and that's nice too - but not really enough to justify spending an entire book on, IMHO.

    Meanwhile, if I understand correctly (still haven't watched Rebels), Thrawn is about to be kidnapped by space whales, which means the era of him as the Empire's point man on the Grysk threat is about to end. Not sure where we go from here. It's possible Zahn will be allowed to pick up again in the Unknown Regions, but that's going to have to be Ezra's story and a continuation of Rebels as much as a Thrawn book, and I'm not sure the powers-that-be will want Zahn writing that, given what many see as his Mary Sueish tendencies and the fact that Ezra is a popular character in his own right. Alternatively, the story could simply continue without Thrawn, with a major showdown between the Grysks and the Empire (or even the New Republic?), but I don't know if any other author is going to want to pick up that ball and roll with it - the Grysks are a very Zahnian invention, which stands apart from basically all the other directions the expanded universe has been going in.
     
  6. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    I largely agree.

    The Grysk were probably the least interesting thing in this book, which is unfortunate because so much of this and the previous novels, not to mention Thrawn’s entire motivation as a character, hinges on the threat they pose.

    It doesn’t help that the story itself is more small scale and vying for page time with the superior Grand Admiral Savit plotline. If anything, Thrawn’s talents seem awfully wasted on what seems like a group of faceless space mooks.

    Makes me long for the days of Nuso Esva. Even if he was just an alien Professor Moriarty, he at least had character.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  7. The_Forgotten_Jedi

    The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2010
    Faro, the return of Eli, and everything about the Navigators were the best parts of the book.

    The lack of any named Grysk character who could serve as a face for the species really hurt that plot this time. It was fine in the previous book, but retreading that same ground with only a bit of new information about their empire was a mistake. Not to mention the teasing about tensions within the Chiss Ascendancy and possible subversion of some of the families by the Grysk barely had any progress as well. More time spent on the Chiss warship and exploring the family tensions amongst the crew would have been nice.

    I was very confused about why Thrawn wanted Ronan to join the Chiss. What purpose/skills does he see in him? Was it the fact he is very loyal to the Empire but not Palpatine? But what good does that do Thrawn?
     
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  8. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I interpreted it is just being him getting Ronan out of the way.

    It prevents him from getting his full report out to Krennic or the Emperor concerning what Thrawn had been doing the past few days, detailing all the regulations he violated, the lengths he went to in order to cooperate with a foreign power (That just so happens to be his own species!), and allowing a known "traitor" use of imperial resources.
    With Ronan out of the way Thrawn can create his own report which will explain his motives, and cast them in a better light. The assistant director clearly doesn't really understand all that went on, and Thrawn doesn't want him making things more difficult by feeding his own (Mis)interpretations to the highest ranks of command.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
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  9. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    I also think Thrawn knew Ronan would be immediately choked to death by Vader if they met.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Probably pointed out already, but this book seems to have recanonized the
    Dashade species.

    Anyways, I really love the banter and comradely on the bridges of the different ships we see. Thrawn's bridge actually reminds me of Star Trek in some ways (don't kill me)
     
  11. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    The helmsman is literally Chekov. Marc Thompson even gives him a Russian accent.
     
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  12. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    That actually makes me wonder, are accents up to the Audiobook reader? For characters that haven't appeared in a show/movie at least.

    Speaking of which, Marc Thompson's Thrawn voice is pretty damn good.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  13. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    I think audiobooks have a director, too, so it's probably worked out between the two of them.

    What's weird about Treason is that most of the Chiss sound, I don't know, German or something. It's weird they don't all have mild Danish accents like Thrawn.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  14. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Yeah the Chiss definitely sound German and it’s a little weird. To be fair though, a Danish accent doesn’t seem easy to imitate given how subtle it can be.
     
  15. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Actually, I kind of felt robbed by Nuso Esva, too. We get to see the beginning of the story when he's introduced as an Unknown Regions nemesis for Thrawn, and then we get to see the end when he fights his last battle against Thrawn and is defeated. In between the two, there would have been five years of a pretty awesome war to be portrayed, and yet we never see it. Though that at least wasn't Zahn's fault, I believe he had an idea of writing more Unknown Regions stuff, it just got killed with everything else by the Great Reset of 2014.

    When the first of the new Thrawn books came around, I actually thought Nightswan compared favorably to Nuso Esva - another nemesis to play a battle of wits against Thrawn, but this one was much better written and more interesting. (Partly because as a Rebel or proto-Rebel, he too is a sympathetic character, where Nuso Esva was a pretty generic baddie). It's a pity nothing like that's come out of the Grysks, yet.
     
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  16. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    I actually would really want Nuso Esva to be brought into the canon for exactly the reasons you’ve said. He never really got to take off in the Legends stories, but I always saw the missed potential there that he could have grown to be a really great counter to Thrawn, especially compared the faceless conquering alien hordes of the Vagaari, the Vong and now the Grysks.

    Don’t get me wrong, Nuso Esva was basically just an evil(er) Thrawn and there’s not really much depth there, but I find myself wanting to see Thrawn go up against a true antagonist again. If he’s going to be joining the Empire and willing to go along with its practices, I figure whatever he’s up against in the Unknown Regions ought to be something comparatively sinister.
     
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  17. beetzello

    beetzello Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 17, 2002
    I liked the two Deathtroopers the best. I listened to the audiobook version and they were funny and added levity to a long and drawn out story.

    I liked how the Emperor put emphasis on having a long talk with Thrawn, but in all likelihood that never happened because Thrawn got on a purgill carnival ride. It’s not clear what happens to Thrawn thereafter, but if there is another book, I bet it involves Ezra in some way.

    Indeed, this was a long and drawn out story. However, it was necessary because it sets up some interesting possibilities post-Death Star II explosion. One wonders if Thrawn was able to befriend Ezra by baiting him with information about the Chiss-Youth Sights. I am imagining the next book with Ezra taking a cigarette break with Eli and Ronan outside the Steadfast.

    Much of what the Chiss Ascendancy actually is has been purposely vague.

    I am noting that “soon” after the end of Rebels Season 4, the Death Star is gone, Krennic is gone, Vader is gone, Tarkin is gone, and Sheev is gone (assuming the cackling end of the ROS trailer is some form of misdirection). Yet, for all intents and purposes, it wouldn’t be a bad bet at all to say that Thrawn is out there somewhere alive.

    This book sets up something that could seemingly be much richer and deeper than the trajectory that the Heir to the Empire set of books set up post-ROTJ. I like how the threat of the Grysk is hanging out there. I like how Ezra as an adult is the likely next co-protagonist. I like how Thrawn is set up to be a Deep State Empire-survivor with his knowledge of Stardust and all the inner-workings of the former empire. I must say, I was rooting for Thrawn throughout this book... what a cray-cray feeling given how much I like Luke Skywalker and his rebel friends.[\spoiler]
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  18. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    Today's Sunday Times (UK) has Thrawn: Treason at #9 in the hardcover fiction Top 10 section.
     
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  19. StarWarsFan1997

    StarWarsFan1997 Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Just finished this last night. I would but it above Alliances but below Thrawn. As others have said, the main issue I had with Treason was the redundant nature of the conflict with the Grysks, although this complaint may be resolved if that conflict ends up becoming a bigger deal in later Canon books. For that to happen, I think that eventually someone other than Zahn will need to write about the Grysk threat, or else it risks minimizing the scope of the threat. I don’t have high hopes that this will happen, given that Canon material hasn’t shown a willingness to tell stories on a large scale with enemies not previously featured in the films. But time will tell.

    I was also intrigued by the relationship between Eli Vanto and the Chiss navigator. There were some scenes that, if this were a YA book, could have been seen as planting seeds for a potential romance (see pg 265-268), but on the other hand they could simply indicate a high degree of friendliness. I’d like to see where that relationship goes in future books, since I don’t see the Chiss as welcoming relationships between one of their own and an “outsider.”
     
  20. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    I only read the first chapter so far but I feel like (I hope that is) this is setting up a Thrawn ship of fools adventure. I don't know what to make of this "omg Krennic I luv u Krennic ur so kewl" fanboy character.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
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  21. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Ronan was definitely a weird character. Zahn writes Krennic really well, but I’m not sure I buy him having his own fanboys.
     
  22. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    I have a feeling that Zahn wanted to include Krennic in a larger role but then realized it didn’t make sense, so he created a Krennic analogue to fill the role.

    You could also argue that Krennic would probably hire someone like Ronan as his second in command because he needs someone like that to stoke his ego.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  23. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    That’s probably right on the money.
     
  24. Jedi Older Code

    Jedi Older Code Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2014
    I was at a Celebration panel on the Audio Books production and Marc says he asks the writer for info on the new characters and what they might sound like. He takes that info to make up the voice.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
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  25. Vezner

    Vezner Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2001
    That's cool! I love Marc's performance in the Thrawn audio books and now I know a little more about why.

    I would love to see them give us some more novels to flesh out the Grysk threat and then bring the conflict to the big screen. We already know that Thrawn and Ezra are likely still alive somewhere in the outer rim and it would be cool to see them, along with Eli and the Chiss, introduced in a new trilogy of movies to show us the Grysk conflict on screen. Maybe I'm just being a Thrawn fanboy but I think that sounds infinitely more entertaining than what we've received in the ST so far.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019