Throwing in the towel

I hate posting one-liners. When I first joined up, I made a habit of posting the most intricate reviews I could. Now I've fallen a bit back on that- while I still refuse to post one-liners, my reviews aren't the novels that they were before.

While I will personally accept any review I'm given, I know that I prefer longer, well-thought out ones. So I try to return the favor to my fellow author. But sometimes I'm just not sure what to say or I don't have the time to post something longer. Therefore I will skip the chapter.

I always figure that for every reviewer out there, there are at least two lurkers. So don't get disheartened, think of those lurkers, who may be too shy or something to post.

 

I'm similar to another poster on this thread, in that if I read a story and enjoy it on these boards, I usually leave at least a one-liner (if I don't have time for more - I try, but if I'm sneaking a peek at work then I may not have the time to do more). I figure most writers would prefer a one-liner to silence, mainly because there are no hit counters or other method of knowing that people are reading. And, of course, because it also pushes a good story to the front page so others can enjoy it, also. Now, I'll admit with stories that have dozens of reviews per chapter I may not be so diligent, because if I don't someone else will, unless it's an older story. I like to travel to the page 5-and-beyond stories to bump up good ones with a review so others can read them.

On archives that have hit counters, I don't usually post one-line reviews because the authors have other ways to know someone is reading. I'll usually do a longer review when a particular chapter really hits me right, but I don't always post per chapter. Here, it's different.

I love how this thread has opened up to encompass other subjects - it's really interesting to me, to see how other people go about commenting or not commenting. I've been writing in another fandom for two years, and I've noticed a definite difference in review patterns in the SW fandom (across the board, not just talking about my own stories).

 

Really?

What?

(Just curious.)

 

LOL! I guess that did end kind of vaguely. The biggest difference seems to be that there are far more hits per review in the SW fandom, meaning either people re-read more often, or that people do more silent lurking without commenting/reviewing. I've talked to some other authors who straddle different fandoms (mainly the Harry Potter fandom), and they've noticed the same thing. Which took a little getting used to . It's not better or worse, really, just different. I think part of it is the sheer size of each fandom - though SW has been around much longer, it seems that HP fanfic is far more prolific (just to judge by the number of fics and readers on some of the archives).

For example, in HP, even when I first started out I would get somewhere around 1 review per 20 or 30 hits. Some authors get far more, others a little less, but it seems to be about average. As time went on, of course, I started to get more reviews as my name became more recognizable, that's why I'm only considering the early-on stories . In SW (on the archives that can count hits), I'm seeing about a 1 in 100 review per hit ratio. Which makes me feel better, because at least I know people are reading (I try not to consider that some are clicking and going, "EWW this stinks!" and then clicking the "back" button ).

Of course, this could just be the experience in the tiny corner of HP fandom that I play in. This wasn't, in any way, shape, or form, a scientific study .

 

That's interesting about the fandoms. I've never read or written any other fandom besides SW.

As much as I love (and appreciate) the long responses, I also like short ones too. If all someone can do is post a smiley face, then that works for me. I try to leave thoughtful responses but if someone has limited time, then that might not be possible. If someone cares enough to hit the 'reply' button, that means they enjoyed the story (I hope!).

 

I know I'd appreciate a one-liner over nothing. At least it does bump up the story, and maybe more people will see it that way. It's very hard to tell on these boards exactly how many people are reading your story, unfortunately. I certainly don't have time to read everything (far from it), but everything I read I comment on, because I know what it feels like to put your story out there and then feel as if the only response you get is the sound of the wind ruffling through discarded papers in an alley somewhere....

It would be interesting to compare the different fandoms and the types of responses they generate. I know the Phantom of the Opera novel I posted on ff.n garnered an average of 23 reviews per chapter, which seems like a lot. Maybe it gave me unrealistic expectations of the sort of reception my work would get over here.

 

I've read one of your stories in the fanfic archives, and I can assure you that nobody is going 'ewww' at your work, wendynat!

But it's true that it's easy to assume the worst (i.e., no or little response must mean that people don't like my story, as opposed to other legitimate explanations). Sometimes posting a story makes me feel as though I'm waiting on the sidelines at the middle school dance, waiting to be noticed. Good thing that I enjoy the punch bowl.

These boards do move extremely fast, and I'm amazed at how many stories are out there. I'm not even keeping up in the Saga forums - I haven't even stepped into the other boards and I'm sure I'm missing out on some fantastic stories. Perhaps, if feedback is not forthcoming, simple awareness of the reality of what it's like to post on a forum such as this can help keep people from throwing in the towel. Either that or stepping back and taking a break when things get too stressful.

 

The Method to the Madness of my reviewing:

I do the constructive thing for younger writers and writers who solicit constructive criticism otherwise I do my damnedest to hold myself in (I've been writing obsessively for twenty years). I suppose it's just the teacher in me, but I like to be helpful and also I'm used to the whole writer's group brute squad approach to reviewing--we almost went out and got "SHOW DON'T TELL" tattoos--I was all for it, but the others were s ( I miss my old group).

I admit, that people I "know" get longer, better, more insightful reviews because I love them. Regardless, if I read a story from start to finish, I'll leave something otherwise Darth Guilt gets me. If I have to bug out and it doesn't look like any thing I could offer would help, I do so quietly. If there's a multichapter work I'm following I try to comment on each chapter. Additionally, I practice review karma. If I do a sneaky bump to drag something of mine back to page one, I go and find another work with less than ten reviews and read it.

One last thing, I always try to add new writers to the group I read. I have tendency to read writers who seem to share my world view and I'm always looking for new ones.

 

Since we're sharing :

I tend to post to every story I read right after I read it. The ones that are truly hard are the truly insightful stories. Basically, I want to provide a review at least half as insightful as the writing itself. That's not always possible and I feel like I'm insulting the writer with a "good job " If the writing needs help in my opinion, I'll typically share that with the writer in a PM. I'm always hesitant to post to a running fic that I wasn't there from the start for because I want to wait until I'm at the same place as everyone else. That, unfortunately is pretty hard because it might take me quite a while to get through the fic I'm reading. I've had a couple people ask me to read their work and comment. I wonder if they think I'm blowing them off because I won't post until I'm caught up?

 

I have to admit that when I first started posting on this sight, I was discouraged by the low responses to my work. The first story I posted was practically ignored. I've never really written anything prior to posting here and was actually surprised at how much I've enjoyed it. I?m writing a new story now and I've picked up about five steady readers (including Souderwan who has been very encouraging). I feel though, that even if I didn't have their responses (as much as I look forward to reading them) that I'd still be writing simply because I?ve never written anything more than a few pages long and I want to see how far I can go with this. Plus I'm having a blast. I've found a new hobby that I really like. I'm not expecting to make a living out of this or to win any awards. I just have a story I feel I need to tell and that's what I'm doing. After I finish, will I write another? Who knows? That decision certainly won't be influenced by the number of readers I have. It all depends on whether or not I have a story that I need to tell.

 

Have I ever felt like throwing in the towel? Yep, I have. The current story that I am writing has been almost completely ignored, save for 2 readers and I haven't heard even from them in a long while). To say that it is frustrating would be an understatement, since I like this story very much and I have spent a lot of time working on it (writing, proof-reading, editing, re-reading etc.)

Unlike many other stories on this thread, it is not an OC driven piece, as most of the main cast is made up of canon characters. I'm starting to believe that most readers around here enjoy either humor, mush, fluff or any lighthearted genre, since these types of stories are generally flooded with reviews (while mine is very action/drama oriented and it gets very dark toward the end).

Now, the question remains: how does one go on, even with zero response? My method is a simple one: I just keep trudging onward, until I finish what I started, regardless of the response. C'est la vie.

 

I have a story that has... let me check... 2225 hits, and 6 reviews. That's more than 300 hits per review. What? And another has over 300 hits and no reviews. Stinky stories end up with plenty of negative reviews, so it's not due to awfulness. Maybe decent but not good enough to review? I'd still think more than 1 out of 300 people would leave a line or two of text.

I consider myself to be a low-frequency reviewer and I still probably end up leaving feedback on 1 out of 10 stories that I read. Seriously, I don't understand it.

I still write, even without reviews - I'm almost used to it, but it's annoying. One-line reviews are fine. Even an "I liked this" is cool.

 

I'll admit to not reading every reply here...sorry! What I have read has been really interesting. I have an OC I'm writing a story about at the moment - I have no idea if she's a 'mary sue' or not. I hadn't even heard of that term till after I started writing it! All I know is I'm enjoying writing it so much and I have a handful of fantastic cheerleaders who are enjoying the story. For me that's enough. After having my creative work slammed all through my school/Uni life I didn't write for eight years - coming here and writing again has been wonderful. So, although I'm fairly new here and perhaps time will change things so far I haven't felt like throwing in the towel. I'm having a lot of fun and have made some great new friends in the process!
I suppose my one piece of advice is keep going - everything may look different in a week or so!

 

Looking at your comment, Eleventh_Guard, you seem to have both the problem and the solution in close proximity.

I am a firm believer in "review karma". People who are good reviewers often end up receiving reviews in return. When you read a story and leave a review, it gives the author an opportunity to look and see what you write. As we typically read the kind of stories possessing elements that we like to write ourselves, being a diligent reviewer gives you an chance to meet and interact with other writers. I had a hard time getting reviews when I first came because of my boiled cabbage writing style, OC centric stories and use of minor canon characters (rock on Mas Amedda!). It took me a while to find other like minded folk but, I did.

If you'll notice, I have several posts on this thread and this thread was actually my inspiration for OC Writers Anonymous. Since I've been here, I've made it a point to participate in challenges that I've found interesting and interact via reviews with writers I respect. Some of the people that I've left reviews for and who've left reviews for me have become some of my closest friends on these boards--we've got a lot in common. I've really had my horizons broadened by some of the folk I've interacted with--I've read mush, Wookiee angst, Desparate Housewives GFFA and have been converted to KOTOR! It's been tremendous fun and I hope that people will realize that with a little patience and willingness to give as well as receive they'll find their niche here.

Hang in there guys.

edit: I can't spell.

 

Interesting discussion here. I'll admit, though I do try mostly to post feedback, I have lurked many times or stopped following a story altogether through no fault of the author or the story. It's always due to outside circumstances, due to busy-ness with school, lack of sleep, hungover-ness, etc.

A lot of times I'll read something and want to leave feedback, but due to the pounding of my head I'm not able to think of anything intelligent or worthwhile to say. Sometimes I'll try to catch up later with a clearer mind, but that's always the case.

And a lot of times I've lagged behind in my reading, especially for a lot of the more well-written and literate stories, in many cases I've fallen so far behind that I still haven't had time to catch up. The reason is that while I enjoy reading them tremensely, they are very hard to read and comprehend when fatigued or hungover.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't fret, because I'm sure there are many lurkers like me who are reading your stuff, but due to outside circumstances are bad at catching up with the reading and the reviewing.

 

My two cents...

I threw in the towel earlier this year... well, last year, now, on a fic in another fandom because it just got so dang long. I had it all plotted out and everything; a lot of chapters were posted, and it was generally well-received, so I can't blame it on a lack of reviews. But I couldn't take it anymore/didn't want to deal with it while dealing with other stuff, so it sat.

And it gnawed. Oh, it gnawed.

I'm finally looking at it again now, a year later. I might finish it up yet, just to say I did.

The subject of reviews:

I'll be honest about getting reviews: I adore it. Who doesn't? In my other fandom, I got reviews right away - bunches with each chapter, even - and they went a long way in getting me to keep up with the story. I probably would've ditched it a lot earlier if people hadn't said "Hey, we like this!" I also had some very insightful reviewers who pointed out things I might want to fix, which always helped. But then I a) went back to SW fics, and b) didn't go with the main characters.

I don't get as many reviews with it. That's all right. On these boards, I actually went several weeks with only my master posting in response, but then I went and looked at it a day or so ago and... gasp! There were others! I tell you, I was walking on air the rest of the day.

Don't lose heart, though! The key with any writing is to keep at it.

Oqidaun makes a good point with posting reviews, and if you don't like the idea of karma you can always just call it networking. I'm working on posting more reviews myself; I always feel awful reading these huge epic stories (which I love more often than not) and then posting a "Hey, this is great!" one-liner because so much work seems like it should have a more intricate review.

I know, I have to get over that. Working on it! But just stop and think - how many stories have you liked and simply not had time/forgotten to leave a line/been too bashful? I'm sure it's not just me... I hope it's not, anyway... also keep in mind that there are many updates a day going on here, and it's very easy for a fic to get shoved to page four or five - people don't always go beyond the first couple of pages.

But, as many pro writers have mentioned, you start out at the bottom. Oh, sure, once in awhile someone debuts with a huge splash and gains accolades and instant fans, but usually you've got to build up your readership one book at a time. It's similar with fanfic, except maybe it's one post at a time.

Ultimately, when it comes to fanfic... heck, and regular writing as well... you should be doing it for you. Maybe you've got some kind of burning idea that won't let up. Whatever the reason, it's your story.

But things happen. We get tired of the story or characters, particularly if we've been working on something for a long time. Burnout happens. If it stops being fun for you and you're still plugging away at it because of your readers (and it is a noble idea, don't get me wrong), don't. More often than not it will probably show up in some form in the writing and that won't be good.

My suggestion for people contemplating chucking it... take a break. Don't necessarily throw in the towel, but take a vacation from the project that's troubling you. A couple weeks, maybe more. Work on other stories or something. See how you feel after that. Sometimes removing yourself completely from a troubling situation for awhile can work wonders.

 

Bringing this up because there's really good advice to frustrated writers in this thread.




Rise, Towel Tossing Thread! Rise!

 

My first two fics on these boards were barely reviewed and then only by people I knew also in Real Life. It was frustrating because I knew they couldn't be that bad. I stopped writing them mostly because of that. I got a beta for one of them, to improve the 'deep mysterious' style it had which made it harder to read if you didn't get all the hints I dropped. I don't suggest writing mysteries for fanfics btw. Anyhoo, after reviewing lots and lots of stories, and chatting it up in threads I was able to suggest my fics when it was appropriate. My readership has grown since then. You need to know your audience. If you want a lot of reviews you need to be writing what people want to be reading. It takes time.

In response to some of the other comments: I review almost every fic I ever read. Ussually witty plot comments or at least a "more please". Maybe all the reviews are review Karma? But I don't know.

And I believe EVERY writer loves reviews. Anyone else double and triple check their fics for recent reviews, like an impatient child?

 

I know this feeling all to well. I write for myself, but I do like to share what I've written. I am a feedback junkie, bigtime. This is part of the reason I participate in the OC Dueling Circle Challenges. You find good fics from other people there that you otherwise may have missed, and you have a built in readership for yours, so you don't feel utterly ignored.

The boards are a big place. When I first joined up in 2003 I tried to read every fic I could that sounded halfway interesting. I knew feedback was important to me and surely was for everyone or they wouldn't be posting. But you can't do that like I did. I totally burned out.

 

I haven't gotten a fanfic award yet! That's it, I'm throwing in the towel.

(Bold words until you realize you are mildy upsetting 2 people at most.)

...

But seriously, I haven't gotten an award yet. I'm out!

Taking a break is a good thing. If you have to force the words out and it becomes work, it is time to step away. Don't worry, it'll come back eventually. We're all addicted at heart.

...

But really, not even nominated...

 

Thing is, once a reader has started seeing all the writers who object to short reviews, or started feeling for other reasons that she ought to say more, it's really hard to stop and give yourself permission to give a one-liner, or even a short paragraph, especially on something that really made you think. (And that's why stories that require the most thought and effort from the writer sometimes seem to get less feedback, too: it's easy to respond to a story when the main reaction is "LOL" or "Aww" or "Wah!" or "Hot!" or something like that, where the author clearly intended an emotional reaction and it's easy to express if it got to you. Something more complex may produce or seem to require a more complex reaction that's harder to articulate.) And if it doesn't hit that feeling where you want to say something right now, it's easy to forget to get back to it.

I keep thinking I should give myself permission to give short feedback, and go back to add on later. Of course, getting into discussions can be dangerous because then I end up feeling that an author I've ended up arguing with elsewhere will think my comments are stupid.

 

I'm doing better now... still not reviewing all the time, but my percentage is up. I've noticed that I'm getting a few more reviews too, which I attribute more to the fact that I have a tiny bit more name-recognition than before than the fact that I'm reviewing more, though it might help with the first part.

I still think short reviews are fine. I only go into more detail if I have something to say other than appreciation, and the appreciation is always genuine when given. I'm also really picky about what I read, so a lot of times there are fics I simply haven't read and don't have that much time to. Partly because I've been writing a lot more lately.

 

Sometimes a few words can be wonderful. Suggestions...

"Your post left me breathless."

"Wow, just wow."

"I have goosebumps."

"Gotta love the mush."

"Post... great... speechless..."


Well, you get the idea. Five words or less, nothing fancy but they can be a tremendous boost. Readers don't have to write a huge review (I personally love them but that's another issue) to let the author know how they feel. I'll take anything from one word on... even a smilie is enough.

 

That's possible? No, seriously, that's really actually a potential reality? Could there be an intimidation factor there? Could intimidation also be the reason why longer, more involved stories tend to get fewer readers? Well, yes, I would imagine so...but my theories are only about as plausible as a tap-dancing jellyfish, so never mind.

In terms of reviews, I can take smilies. I can take one word. Hell, I can take a master's thesis. Whatever the reader's got, I'll take it. Well, except for requests...sorry, but I can't sing "Moon River".

Considering that I'm more than a bit of a frustrated snot bag when it comes to feedback (as recent evidence has shown...yeah, I suck), I do have to say that coming from smaller boards to a larger one is being swamped by a tidal wave. The only "big" board I ever posted on was FF.N, and that was only a couple of vignettes. Which usually get a good review if your summary is nice, descriptive, and the word count is under 5,000. I had one over here about two years ago that had some nice reception, but again, it was a viggie. Read it, review it, put it under your parakeet. But now that I'm coming back into the longer series format...maybe it's better to stick to vignettes on larger sites if you write stuff that requires large doses of mescaline to actually enjoy .

 

I think that long, complex stories tend to get fewer replies but they also might get very loyal readers. Even the post numbers might intimidate someone to keep them from starting to read a story that has been around for a while. On the other hand, it might also show that the author is serious about finishing it...

Also, post length may be a factor. Some people have a hard time reading a lot of story in one sitting. I know quite a few people will print out a long post to read later.