ST Time Travel in Episode IX

I'm not usually a fan of time travel. It seems like lazy and boring writing. I really don't want to see time travel in Star Wars.

 

Please no.

 

Perhaps Rey is a time traveler brought to Jakku by Rebels of the future to prevent the rise of the Ren reich.

 

Bringing in Abrams for any reason back when they brought in Abrams means that time travel is going to be imposed upon Star Wars. Abrams broke Star Trek lore in numerous ways. He did not know the lore. He did not care about the lore. He was not beholden to any culture centered around the franchise. He was not interested in researching the client base. He was given carte blanche and mandate to generate revenue, by whatever means, using any and all recognizable fictional persons, places, events contained in the IP, in any way at all that he saw fit, that would generate revenue. You cannot get the Abrams version of the Kirk Spock glass wall scene in Abrams Khan, without first surrendering to the truth of what is said here. The Abrams version of the Kirk Spock glass wall scene in Abrams Khan does not occur naturally, spontaneously in any universe. It occurs when a god-mass thumb on the scale tells a child it is ok to plagiarize a way of life, for millions, as long as it gets tickets sold over the course of a matter of weeks. BO is the new god. BO should be added to the pantheon of Neil Gaiman, chess buddies with Money.

I can't think of another IP of the genre as large as Star Trek or Star Wars that IP holders will want Abrams to touch so as to generate revenue to modern BO standards. LOTR already self-destructed with Hobbit like text book Fermi Paradox. Potter is, as far as I am going to continue to be concerned, self-destructing with its own idea of a prequel. Neither of these will beg for the saving touch of an Abrams. Transformers is already at Abrams level. He cannot bring them lower than they already are, for they never were higher than what they are. Actually - Abrams could very well destroy Game of Thrones if he was permitted near it. Jurassic Park is at a level above Abrams. Abrams could in theory bring Jurassic Park lower than it is. Does anyone watch Pirates of the Caribbean anymore? That was Abrams level, if not slightly higher than Abrams, when it first came out. Mission Impossible already got the Abrams makeover. Abrams could radically alter the value of Hunger Games. Give him a Hunger Games movie and that will be in flames.

It is really irrelevant now what reasoning and cogent argument can be sandbagged, using Lucas era examples and principles, against the idea of time travel. IP holders are unaware of what made Star Wars unique. They think they know what made it successful, so they are not concerned with properties that they feel are orthogonal, or irrelevant, to BO success, such as this ineffable quantity or quality of 'uniqueness'. They do not have any requirement or responsibility shareholders to preserve uniqueness if that gets in the way of BO. If time travel and other sci-fi / hard sci-fi ideas are making bank in modern BO, they will feel that there is no thought to apply to the matter - you go where the BO has demonstrated the palatability to modern audiences of the modern idea. Modern audiences are cattle to be directed using cattle chutes. The BO of TFA proves scientifically and mathematically the truth of what I am saying here. Modern audiences did not vote with their wallets against plagiarism. They did not vote with their wallets against breaking lore. When TLJ BO came around, audiences did not vote with their wallets against breaking lore. Quantitatively, modern audiences are not kept away by broken lore. Time travel and brethren sci-fi / hard sci-fi concepts are the means by which the recognizable fictional persons, places, events contained in an IP can be reliably mixed up, stirred, recombined. That is reliable BO. Time travel and brethren sci-fi / hard sci-fi concepts are the means to till the soil, re-oxygenate the appetite for recognizable fictional persons, places, events contained in an IP. The wise, chicken little Cassandra, learned to stop worrying and love the bomb.

 

I think it will be similar to this. The force vision was new, but grounded enough that it didn't throw the audience off.

 

spot on

 

I seriously doubt time travel plays into this in any way shape or form. Maaaaybe a little world-between-worlds stuff factoring somehow into Palpatine, but I can't see anyone actually physically travelling forward or back. Just force-vision premonitions of what's passed and what's to come, which is nothing we haven't seen before in SW.

 

Time does one thing .......... it moves forward.

There's no way to go back in time.

All we can do going forward are acts "that will begin to make things right".

 

borrow the infinity time stone from Dr. Strange. That will work!

 

You forgot one: Indy 5. Since we know that Jonathan Kasdan was hired to re-write the script, it's not much of a stretch for Abrams to end up directing it, with Kennedy and Spielberg producing.

 

Whoa. Yeah. They would do it. And since early Ford is money on the table, they can throw Blade Runner to him also. This is a case, fortunately, where BO for BR2049 was low enough that these vultures have possibly moved on to different carrion. I would tend to think the IJ IP is carrion, but, maybe I am the only person that thought Ford was too CGI corrected, the environments were too CGI, and extraterrestrials have zero place in a franchise that was founded upon a judeo-christian worldview that underwrote the off-screen providence of justice. In 1982 you could say, that off-screen providence that's melting faces? That's the Christian God capital G, dog. Then in what the squelch year the aliens Indy came out, you can't say who or what any agent of providence is. (I forget how it ended, so thoroughly forgettable it was. Maybe no bad guys were harmed in the making of this so woke tale because it has grown beyond its roots of a judeo-christian framework. If you want to do extraterrestrial aliens, you do it correctly and you activate the hind brain flight response. Not the for brian laugh response.) Anyway, as of last entry, I do not think that Abrams could bring the IP lower. Abrams could more thoroughly assault the memory and honor of the early entries. Abrams could ape ROTLA to within an inch of its persons, places, things, plot beats, tone, that did not occur with the Crystal Skull.

 

The sad thing is, Ford was basically useless in 2049. He's really just a human McGuffin in that movie. And Ford looks like he just tossed on whatever he had hanging in the closet and ran down to the studio for his cameo.

You forgot about Temple of Doom, which also affirms Hinduism. Anything and everything is real in the Indyverse. In the George Lucas-produced Young Indy TV show, Indy even encountered the reincarnation of Vlad the Impaler! The problem with Crystal Skul was not the aliens and it wasn't Shia LaBeouf; The movie simply had a godawful script, terrible lighting, and was directed on autopilot. Shame on Spielberg for allowing that version of the film to get made.

If Abrams makes Indy 5, it will definitely be a soft reboot of Raiders. That's all he knows how to do. Actually, I'm afraid Spielberg himself would do the same thing, since he now treats this franchise as nothing more than a class reunion.

 

Removing spoilers for a movie that just came out. -Pym

 

Oh HELL no to time travel for SW. I've had enough of that concept!!!

 

If it's done like it is in Clone Wars, I won't mind at all about time travel. It's always the excecution that matters, more than the concept.

 

I have a serious issue with the concept of time travel in Star Wars. First of all, Time travel story lines are often messy, leaves too many plot holes, and is usually another way to say "Hey, we screwed up. lets start over". When I think of Star Wars, I think of things like enlightenment, meditation, powers of the mind, heightened natural abilities and things that Buddhist monks practice. Things on a spiritual level. Time travel is more like something in X-Men. Next thing you know there will be characters similar to Nightcrawler and Iceman. In case someone mentions Sidious and force lightning, our bodies contain and conduct electricity, so its not too far beyond belief that someone can control electricity through meditation. Time travel doesn't have a place in any of that. I would rather see alternate universes much like DC comics at some point.

 

If you bring in beings coded as legit Extraterrestrial Aliens, not just diverse non-humans, you alter the dynamic. The IJ IP was established in a global or governing framework that the numinous existed. In the first and third film that was the Judeo Christian numinous. The presence of numinous means there exists some moral code that you can or do not adhere to. If you bring in something that breaks the framework of the numinous, in this case, beings coded as legit Extraterrestrial Aliens, you enter a different framework where moral code is subservient to the impulse of raw survival. A tale about the impulse of raw survival, because of scientific breakthrough, does not belong in an IP that was founded upon an impulse for moral high ground, that is based upon a tradition of guidance under a numinous authority. Whether that is a Judeo Christian god, a Hindu god, etc.

A quality of the numinous that already obviates time travel is that the numinous is already supposed to be timeless, or outside of time, and omniscient along eye lines of past present and future. The Force in the ESB Yoda swamp scene is already supposed to be timeless and omniscient. Why omniscient, when Luke could only have a limited clairvoyance and Yoda says the future is always in motion? Because providence ultimately stepped in for what we call the good. That was the end that it saw with omniscience. Loyalist realist fans of Star Wars, who concern themselves with reifying plot necessity, will volunteer for the hamster wheel to explain how, exactly, the Imperial fleet vanished just because the Death Star II blew up. If Lucas was not baking an offscreen providence into the final resolution, i.e., if Lucas was telling a science fiction tale that respected its own internal rule set, the Rebel Alliance would have been destroyed. A science fiction tale was not what Lucas was telling, and as Robot Chicken illustrates, the Rebels won. Because. Why? Because. Yeah, but because Why? Because, you blind fool, offscreen numinous providence stepped in to truncate the story at a time and place of its choosing that reifies the correct moral path taken by the woefully outnumbered underdog, which is to hopefully strengthen in the mind of the viewer the willingness to take a correct moral course in the face of overwhelming odds. We lie to children to create a thing we can call truth, so that many years later adults are able to master their impulses and pursue an optimizing equilibrium that benefits the most people most of the time.

Time travel is a fiction of science and a wish of poor choices. Star Wars under Lucas was grounded in greek stage which prioritized personal accountability that was supervised by an off screen numinous or providence. Star Wars under Lucas would never give Anakin a chance to go back in time, respawn and undo matters, because that destroys the priority placed upon carrying on one's life in such and such fashion that it is the highest road available, and the best offering one can make to society. Obi-Wan is more or less the paragon of virtue and does not long for an ability to go back in time and end Vader at the lake of fire. His mistakes do not stack up like Anakin's. Anakin's negative example is supposed to stand like a tall statue casting long shadows. Remember it, do not forget it by toppling it, and you might incorporate and retain lessons learned. Give Anakin time travel, and now what was the point of any one person trying to find the higher path or guide their actions? If time travel exists, there is no numinous providence keeping watch and tallying one's moral impact on history.

This is a diceingly nuanced topic and it is inevitable that someone shall think this is all nonsense.

 

The existence of a god does not necessarily imply a moral code. A moral code is, objectively speaking, attributed to a god. However, assuming that a moral code did truly correspond to a god, how would the existence of aliens nullify that?

 

BINGO

the introduction of time travel completely shatters the saga. if you can just go back in time to erase mistakes to prevent the subsequent outcomes of this entire story then it was all for absolutely nothing. leia's urgent plea to obiwan? pointless. luke's training with yoda? pointless. vader's redemption? pointless. it's only acceptable when you consider everything we've witnessed on the screen is just ONE of a possible million billion outcomes of somebody's interjection with the past to secure a different future. i guarantee you if that happens i'll be throwing in the towel, because 1) it's absurd to even consider to think is acceptable, and 2) you've flushed the whole enchilada hook, line, and sinker down the commode. think about it, given this scenario with the introduction of time travel, the saga we've all grown to know is the failed version of the future, because it shows us the downfall of anakin and its repercussions -- the outright undesired result that is trying to be corrected with time travel. but hey that's okay because we know somebody's going to go back in time and put this sucker back on the right path. so what i'm really watching isn't truly legit because it's just a version of what it really isn't. so yeah, i'm using my illusion here. is this the real life? is this just fantasy? it won't be real until i see the scene of anakin, padme, luke, and leia broadcast their a cappella rendition of what the world needs now atop the highest spires of coruscant. that's the real meaning of star wars! holy guacamole it's bonkers and doesn't fit whatsoever. stars wars is not back to the future.

 

And yet, the STORY GROUP gurus at LFL allowed Time Travel to be introduced in Rebels as part of CANON.

You don't like it, well, deal with it.

The powers that be have made it a THING related to Jedi Temples and the Force.

Do I like it?: NO,

But just like I didn't like how easily LFL also dismissed all of the EU in a simple announcement, now it is what it is. All we can do is give our opinion with our wallets.

 

Filoni's inferred he consulted with George on that sort of stuff in the first place.

 

If it’s done with the same beauty (and inconsequentiality in terms of erasing past events) that GoT did, I can accept it. As handled in Rebels, it was fine.

 

Source? Reference?

 

I'm actually fairly sure that there is an ability in Legends that is essentially the same ability as Bran and the Bloodraven's.