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Amph To Boldly Trek Where Many Geeks Have Gone Before- VOY: Drive, Repression & Imperfection

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Jun 25, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    If anything, she underreacted. They've literally determined that he is under an alien influence, that he disobeyed a direct order threatening rocky relations with a potential, but highly xenophobic, ally. He then disobeyed the subsequent order to report to sickbay in front of the entire bridge crew and, if that wasn't enough already, his earlier actions as a result of disobeying those orders (and the lies surrounding his absence) caused damage to at least one (or both) ships- potentially putting the entire crew at risk.

    Alien influence or not, his butt should have been thrown in the brig anyways. Heck, only a few episodes ago she threw Paris into solitary for a month with a demotion for almost the same violations- and there she actually agreed with his position (just not his tactics to achieve it) while Paris kept his outbursts in check after a warning from Janeway, unlike Kim.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
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  2. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Surely there was a better way to add some conflict to the story than to suddenly invent a new regulation against interspecies fraternization, a regulation which obviously flies in the face of every other Trek story, ever. That wasn't just a matter of continuity, it was blatantly inconsistent with Trek lore and history.
     
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  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I agree that that regulation is weird (as I pointed out in my initial comments)- but that's a minor issue to the conflict (I think that's more of the Doctor overemphasizing a medical issue and Janeway having to include it in the list of things Kim did wrong).

    The bigger conflict with Janeway, as I recall, was disobeying orders in regards to the limited interaction between the crews, as per the wishes of the newly-contacted-species they were working with, and threatening the ship by not doing his job.

    I don't believe we ever saw Kirk or other show crew members under similar orders (the closest off the top of my head is Riker and the androgynous alien).
     
  4. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Yeah, that was my problem with Janeway in this episode, not that Harry arguably deserved a dressing down for disobeying orders, rather I remember Janeway getting pissed off with Harry for having sex, and this is in a multicultural utopia.I find it hard to believe that after 200 years of sustained contact with numerous alien civilizations, which would obviously include sex, there isn’t a catch-all injection that protects you from most of the weirder side effects of sleeping with someone who has completely different biology that you do.
     
  5. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    It really is interesting how, as you initially pointed out, something that came across to me as a minor inconsistency came across as a more significant tangent to yourself and others. Really changes the reception of that stretch of the episode.

    For me, it was more like, Harry was so clearly acting like a jerk that I was happy to see him get chewed out for it. The whole regulation thing was something that I was like "Well, that's weird, Kirk and whatnot" and just kinda moved on without focusing on it much.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  6. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004


    Found the scene in question.

    Janeway: Don’t fall in love, Harry. That’s an order.

    Harry: Ummm.....excuse me???
     
  7. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    In TNG it's explicitly established that there's a filter for irregularities that aren't in your beam-down (or baseline) scans when using the transporter. So unless something's been unmapped, that's how it's normally handled, no?
     
  8. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    UPN and the Creators of Star Trek: Voyager:


    UPN and the Creators of Star Trek:


    The Event That Had To Happen:


    The Borg Vs Humanity:

    (wow. Ok,. Yeah, that music... it's out there but I kinda like it, lol)

    (Part 1) Dark Seduction Week:


    VOY 517-518/515-516: Dark Frontier
    -Premise: When Captain Janeway devises a plan to steal a transwarp coil from a damaged Borg sphere, the mysterious Borg Queen learns of the plan and uses this knowledge in an attempt to return Seven of Nine to the Borg by issuing her an ultimatum: rejoin the Collective or watch as Voyager is assimilated.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: One detail that stands out here is how both phaser strips are fired simultaneously at the Borg vessel. You usually don't get to see multiple phaser strips firing like that even when they have overlapping fields of fire. Also, beaming a torpedo aboard an enemy ship to detonate was always one of those tactics that Trek should have used more often when possible- Stargate Atlantis used it to great effect against the Wraith.

    The way this torpedo takes down the ship seems to go against the decentralized nature of Borg ships (then again, Picard being able to target a vital system in FC does also, so I suppose it's not breaking any rules that haven't already been broken).

    Voyager has added 2 years to their route by avoiding the Borg- I thought they were considered beyond Borg space thanks to Kes? Granted, they backtracked, but still. Chakotay's observation about Janeway fiddling with her combadge is an odd absolute- given that i doubt that habit holds up to scrutiny when viewing the past 4.5 seasons. A couple of Ferengi tried to break into Fort Knox. Because of course they would.

    Events connecting back to The Raven and its files. I also like the moment between Seven and Neelix here. Neelix's tragic backstory rarely seemed to jive with his character but when they do use it sparingly, it works. Just a sidenote, it never really occurred to me before but maybe it was because they weren't so specific before about The Raven's mission/actions in actively tailing Borg vessels and such but, Seven's parents are the worst parents ever. You know you're tailing a dangerous race- one that could assimilate you with ease if things go bad, and you bring your kid with you? WTF?

    Another shuttle sacrificed. I think this sequence would have been more effective if we hadn't had the Queen's vocal prophecy of doom for the mission earlier- the tradeoff being Seven's discussion with Janeway about being included on the mission, though. Too bad there wasn't some middleground to be found there.

    I wonder if it’s necessary for Tuvok to verbally repeat and point out the placement of the spacial charges, given that they've gone over the simulation so many times and, unless the systems layout had changed, Harry shouldn't need to be reminded and that verbally declaring "spacial charges" might alert some drone or other system as to their presence being a threat.

    I wonder if the docking of the Borg Sphere is a reuse of assets from FC's Sphere escape sequence- it's very much the same angle and seemingly the same port design. I see they had to try and top FC by not only having the Queen's head lower into the torso but by having the torso itself assembled. Oh man, there's totally a Voltron parody here waiting to happen.

    [​IMG]

    "You are the only Borg who has returned to a state of individuality." IUh, Picard? Uh, Hugh? Uh, the Cooperative? Uh, Lore's rogues?

    It's kinda funny that they changed the transwarp effects to be green instead of blue, as if we needed to be reminded that this is the Borg version of this tech. The new actress for the Borg Queen is interesting. She doesn't have the seductive quality of the Krige Queen. She is more low-key and robotic but has a more alien, reptilian quality to her demeanor (particularly the eyes, somehow)- you sense there is something there that could be unleashed, but it's under the surface and not boiling so there isn't an overtly perceived threat. There's an intelligence there, though.

    "They've left behind their trivial, selfish lives and they've been reborn with a greater purpose. We've delivered them from chaos into order."
    "Comforting words. Use them next time instead of 'Resistance is futile', you may elicit a few volunteers."

    "Most explorers don't take their 4-year old daughter along for the ride." This guy gets it.

    The Queen's new plan to assimilate Earth? Watch Crusade (or, specifically, the B5 telefilm "A Call to Arms"). Just swap out Drahk Plague Virus for Borg Nanoprobe Virus.

    I feel like they didn't make the Queen's teachings or attempts to sway Seven back to the Collective effective enough- there wasn't enough there to tempt Seven into staying and, thus, make her dilemma at the end of choosing between the Queen and Janeway not much of a choice. Like, it would have been interesting to see the Queen illustrating to Seven how the Borg may have benefitted certain species in some way (stopped wars, preserved examples and information of a species that would have gone extinct, what their pooled knowledge has managed to achieve on a tech or bio level, etc). It might have to be twisted a bit but it would have made more sense than intentionally subjecting Seven to the more horrific facets of assimilation.

    [​IMG]

    A “full spread” of 6 torpedoes fired- it should be noted that, even if the revised torpedo stats provided in Scorpion were correct (which added 12-15 additional torpedoes itself), Voyager theoretically fired its last torpedo in this the episode.

    The Queen's vessel didn't seem so far behind the Delta Flyer for this sequence of events to play out plausibly.

    [​IMG]

    They skip over using the transwarp coil until it wears out and instead regulate that to a Captain's Log entry. Fair enough, but I kinda feel like that's a moment that should have been seen, given that it shaved off an estimated 15 years off their journey (though I guess it's only a 13 year net gain if we factor in the 2 years lost avoiding Cubes previously). Add to that the 10 years Kes gave them and that means they've shaved off 23 years off their journey + the approx. 5 years the series has transpired across plus whatever the 300 light years gained in Hope and Fear equates too. So they've effectively brought the original 75 years down to at least 47 years (and maybe I’m even forgetting some more minor examples of additional gains to this point?).

    "The Borg believed that I was unique. That I understood humanity. They were obviously mistaken...I did not expect for you to return for me."
    "Looks like you still have a few things to learn" Yeah, I think that was her point, Kathy.

    There's a very beautiful shot of Voyager at the end here- I don't think we've seen this one before. What's probably most impressive (though perhaps to the detriment of the Borg as credible villains) is that no Voyager crew members were killed in this two-parter, despite the number of Borg.

    So, advancement of the journey home, the Borg in general and Seven in particular, plus we get the answer to the mystery of how the Raven ended up in the Delta Quadrant within Seven's lifetime. On those grounds alone, it's Definitely Essential, but it's a solid two-parter as well.

    On a personal note, I'm pretty sure this is more or less where I checked out of watching Voyager regularly. I may have tuned in for a couple episodes between now and Endgame but I'm fairly certain things will be almost entirely unfamiliar from this point on.

    Trivia: Though originating as a February sweeps idea, initially the writers had no idea what the sweeps story they were heading into would be about. Encouraged by the success of The Killing Game as a two-hour event, and furthered by the desire to try and top First Contact, Dark Frontier's development began. The plot was combined by Braga from multiple Borg storylines laying around. The Hansens’ backstory was inspired by Dian Fossey, a gorilla specialist.

    The script specifies that this is a different Queen than the one in First Contact- a similar design but a distinct personality. There were efforts to try and get Krige to return in the role but she was unavailable for unstated reasons. The new Queen actress, Susanna Thompson, had unsuccessfully auditioned for the role of the Queen in FC. Thompson used Krige's performance as a springboard for her portrayal- not trying to imitate her directly but not afraid to duplicate things she had done, as while the Queens were different, they were an extension of the same hive mind and, thus, would have many commonalities.

    The comment by the Hansens about the Borg Queen being like the queen of an insect colony echoes the Borg's original idea of being the race of insects in TNG: Conspiracy. The first half of Dark Frontier was directed by Cliff Bole, who directed both parts of The Best of Both Worlds. It was the last Trek episode he directed.

    This is the only time a Borg Probe (also referred to as a Borg Interceptor in non-canon sources) appears in a Trek series, as well as the Borg Queen's Diamond. The Borg Probe's shape was taken from concepts considered for use in First Contact (in place of the Cube).

    The transporter effect used in the flashback scenes are the same as those used on TNG & DS9. When the Hansens first encounter a Borg cube, the music is reminiscent of the V'Ger-themed music from TMP. The writers were aware of the discontinuity the timing of the Hansen arc creates with the lack of awareness of the Enterprise-D crew has in Q Who about the Borg. They felt that, at the time, the Borg were "a very slender rumor" and the Hansens tried to follow up on it and just disappeared.

    Seven's purple jumpsuit was introduced here, as her previous blue one was proving difficult to film against bluescreens. this was supposedly the first of many episodes that were edited down by 2 minutes when airing on UPN to make room for additional commercials.


    Up Next: DS9 717-719: The Final Chapter, Parts I-III: Penumbra, Til Death Do Us Part & Strange Bedfellows.



    Voyager Resources:

    Torpedoes: (Starting with 38, as of The Cloud)
    -1 fired in The Cloud (37 remain)
    -3 fired in Alliances (34 remain)
    -7 fired in Dreadnought (27 remain)
    -3 fired in Resolutions (24 remain)
    -3 fired + 1 "Dispersal Pattern Sierra" (5 torpedos according to Yesterday's Enterprise, but we'll assume a minimum of 2) in Basics, Part I (between 16 to 19 remain)
    -1 fired in Future's End, Part II (between 15 to 18 remain)
    -1 fired in Rise (between 14 to 17 remain)
    -4 fired in Scorpion, Part II (between 10 to 13 remain) (complement claimed to be 32, which would leave 28 if that were correct)
    -5 fired in Hope and Fear (between 5 to 8 remain) (23 if Scorpion claims were correct)
    -1 fired as flare + 4 fired in 1st volley + 5 fired in 2nd volley + 3 deployed to collapse vortex in Night (between -8 to -5 remain (10 if Scorpion claims were correct)
    -1 fired as depth charge in Thirty Days (between -9 to -6 remain) (9 if Scorpion claims were correct)
    -2 fired in Counterpoint (between -11 to -8 remain) (7 if Scorpion claims were correct)
    -1 detonated in Dark Frontier, Part I (-12 to -9 remain) (6 if Scorpion claims were correct)
    -6 fired in Dark Frontier, Part II (between -18 to -15 remain) (0 if Scorpion claims were correct)


    Shuttles: (Unknown Starting Value)
    -1 destroyed by Chakotay/Kazon in Initiations, unnamed.
    -1 destroyed by Kim in Non Sequitur, Drake.
    -1 destroyed by Paris in Partuition, unnamed.
    -1 dismantled by ex-Borg Raiders in Unity, unnamed.
    -1 lost to Kes's evolution in The Gift, unnamed.
    -1 destroyed by Chakotay in Nemesis, unnamed.
    -1 destroyed by the Caatati in Day of Honor, Cochrane.
    -1 abandoned by Seven in The Raven, unnamed.
    -1 captured by Hirogen, destroyed by Janeway's actions in Hunters, unnamed (actually, Cochrane, again).
    -1 destroyed/abandoned by away team in Drone, unnamed.
    -1 created by Voyager crew in Extreme Risk, Delta Flyer.
    -2 given away for wormhole escape in Counterpoint, unnamed.
    -1 destroyed by Paris & Tuvok in Gravity, unnamed.
    -1 assimilated by the Borg as a decoy in Dark Frontier, Part I, unnamed.

    Crew: (152 People, as of The 37's)
    -Death Wish: Quinn/Q2 joins the crew (153 remain), then commits suicide. (152 remain)
    -Alliances: Kurt Bandera, dead. (151 remain)
    -Meld: Darwin, dead. (150 remain)
    -Investigations: Michael Jonas, dead. (149 remain)
    -Deadlock: Wildman baby born. (150 remain)
    -Innocence: Ensign Bennet, dead. (149 remain)
    -Basics, Part I: Bridge crewmember shot, presumed dead (148 remain)
    -Basics, Part II: Hogan, Suder & blue uniform crewmember, dead (145 remain)
    -Warlord: Martin, dead. (144 remain)
    -Unity: Ensign Marie Kaplan, dead. (143 remain)
    -Distant Origin: Five unknown people potentially added to crew, as crew is stated to be 148. (143 or 148 remain)
    -(Latent Image; between Worst Case Scenario & Scorpion): Ahni Jetal, dead. (142 or 147 remain)*
    -Scorpion, part II: Seven of Nine joins the crew (143 or 148 remain)
    -Scientific Method: Ensign Roberta Luke, dead. (142 or 147 remain)
    -(Ashes to Ashes & Imperfection; between Hunters & Prey): Lyndsay Ballard, dead (141 or 146 remain)**
    -The Killing Game, Part I: Unidentified crew member, dead. (140 or 145 remain)
    -Living Witness: 3 unidentified crew members killed by the Kyrian incursion. (137 or 142 remain)
    -One: Unidentified officer, dead from nebula burns. (136 or 141 remain)
    -In the Flesh: Doctor totals 128 crew members ("2 down" + "125 to go" + the Doctor)- so either 8-13 people have died since (or offscreen during) The Killing Game or 8-13 people didn't need to be treated). (128, 136 or 141 remain)
    -Gravity: Tuvok cites 152 crew members aboard Voyager. (128, 136, 141 or 152 remain)
    -Dark Frontier, Part I: Borg scans identify “143 lifeforms aboard” Voyager. (128, 136, 141, 143, or 152 remain)


    *Season 5 episode affecting chronologically earlier events,
    **Season 6 & 7 episodes, listed here in advance for proper tally moving forward
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
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  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    And one final trailer for Part II of Dark Frontier which I couldn't include above due to media embed limits:

    (Part 2) Rescue Seven of Nine From the Dark Side:




    To be fair- it's Harry that twists the debate into it being about him being in love. She then kinda falls for the thematic debate.

    Yeah, one would assume this regulation, when it applied (which would be to non-contacted species) would be for non-beaming missions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
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  10. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    I think that that’s more for disease causing bacteria and viruses, but you obviously grasp my point that 24th Century medicine should have an over the counter pill that you can take for potential unexpected side effects of inter species sex.
     
  11. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    The Hansen's running into the Borg does play wonky with the timeline as to their reveal in Q-Who, but I think there's wiggle room. Daddy Hansen qualifies the Borg as "rumours and sensor ghosts". And we know that the El Aurians were picked up in Kirk's time at the launch of the Ent-B, I doubt they all sorta just kept their mouths shut about why they were on a refugee ship (cuz the Borg killed 'em all!). Also there's the incursions in the Neutral Zone that turn out to be the Borg. And also, due to time looping, the Borg in Archer's time period. Sure that was all heavily classified but, once again, "rumours". And those Borg sent out beacon signal to Earth so that all adds up to the Borg were probably a pretty big rumour that the Hansens were diving into and it's possible the Borg were poking their noses around in the Alpha Quadrant at this time. But maybe not such a defined rumour that, hey, let's bring the kid along cuz maybe they don't even exist / we don't know that they're robo-zombies.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
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  12. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I could accept the sensor ghosts angle for the parents as motivation to pursue their research. But, come on, they were equipped in ways to avoid Borg detection and had to know enough from stories to know that the Borg were highly dangerous. And, even if they didn't know to what extent their threat was at the time, as soon as they started researching/following a cube and had a pretty clear idea of the borg's capability, they should have gotten their daughter out of there even if they chose to continue their research after that.
     
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  13. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    hahahahh oh I agree, they ain't exactly the best parents but they probably didn't know enough about the Borg to know that they would be such a direct threat, or they just got caught up in the chase and didn't worry about their kid (I think the dad is actually pretty dismissive of Lil Anika Hansen on the bridge at one point). Which is why when the Borg Queen shows Seven her Borg-ed Daddy, it really shouldn't have that much of an affect on her, she should just tell him to go to Hell for getting her assimilated.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    [​IMG]

    DS9 717: The Final Chapter, Part I: Penumbra
    -Premise: Sisko plans to marry Kasidy Yates; Worf is missing after a battle with the Dominion. (Part 1 of 9)

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Mention of the Son'a still working for the Dominion. Are there other Son'a ships/factions besides the ones seen in Insurrection? Or are the same guys still trying to screw over the Federation after they helped them? Or is Weyoun's comment to Damar's question meant to imply the facility was made by the Son'a but they're no longer able to defend it because they're no longer working with the Dominion as a result of Insurrection and that those events have been kept from the Cardassians?

    Been awhile since we've seen the Badlands- for a rare reoccurring Star Trek location in space, it’s easy to forget about. Planning your dad's bachelor party could potentially be a little creepy..

    "I did not use a phaser. I used this" (raises pointy stick)

    Ezri is a little...bitchy here. I mean, Worf's being a jerk too, but we haven't really seen this side of Ezri before whereas Worf can be a jerk all the time, so it stands out more.

    Ya-tay-ya-tay yo-toe, the Breen return. Dukat out of makeup and as a Bajoran. That's a transformation I just can't see working as a surgery no matter how advanced. I mean, the neck ridge muscles alone would need to be cut away... it's a lot harder to take away body parts than to add to them (as a Bajoran-to-Cardassian procedure would).

    So, this kicks off the 9-part "Final Chapter" arc. It is mostly setup here- Sisko's marriage vs destiny, Worf & Ezri stranded, etc. By itself it may not be necessarily essential, but I'm assuming it will ultimately be when taken as a whole. so, for now, we'll go with Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: The decision to serialize the last third of the season came about after realizing they had too many characters and subplots to wrap up in even a two-part series finale. So they began to tie things up early (ATTN: Voyager! ATTN: Voyager! This is where you fracked up despite having fewer characters and ongoing plots!).

    The Runabout Ezri steals was originally the Ganges before they realized that had already been destroyed, so dialogue was dubbed over to rename it the Gander. This is the only mention of the Son'a on a Trek TV series (too bad, there could have been an interesting payoff to Weyoun and Damar's exchange depending on how you read it). Oh, Insurrection, even referencing you is useless.




    DS9 718: The Final Chapter, Part II: Til Death Do Us Part
    -Premise: Sisko agonizes over his vision from the Prophets, telling him not to marry Kasidy; Kai Winn receives a vision foretelling a "guide" who will help her restore Bajor; Ezri and Worf are interrogated by the Breen. (Part 2 of 9)

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: "What's the special today?" To-day, to-day, ya-toe

    "And.. it was Julian."
    "Dr. Bashir?"
    "Isn't that strange? I wonder what it meant?”
    ”Dr. Bashir is a Breen."
    "Very funny."

    Speaking of the Breen, I hadn't commented on it at the end of the last episode but we get a few good looks at it here in this episode- the Breen warship that Ezri and Worf are prisoners aboard is a pretty sick ship. It runs right up to the line of possibly being too busy but holds back just enough so that it still has a cohesive silhouette (versus, say, something more confusing to look at like the Narada). And it's clear that this thing is not meant to be friendly. It's sharp and deadly. It's a ship that could slice your throat just by looking at it. That said, I swear you can see starlines passing through its shadows in certain shots...

    Winn sleeps with her earring on- I never noticed before but do all Bajorans/Kira do that? That seems...impractical. The whole Winn/Dukat manipulation thing here is done pretty well- though the romantic angle seems rushed.

    The SIsko and Mrs. Palmer tie the knot. DS9 has the most weddings of any Trek series, at least of the recurring cast.

    The zoom in to the Breen shot prior to transport was a bit out of place. Dominion/Breen alliance- dunt-dunt-dahhh.

    I mean, one can pretty much anticipate the determined classification of every episode form this point out: Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: The episode was originally to be titled "Umbra" (an area of deep shadow) to follow from the previous episode's title "Penumbra" (an area of half shadow).

    The original plan for The Final Chapter had the wedding taking place in the third episode, not the second, and that Sarah's warning would refer to Sisko's house, not his marriage. It was decided to change this to the marriage to make the warning's subject matter more compelling and to move up the wedding an episode as Sisko would want to resolve it as soon as possible. This led to frustration for Moore, who was set to write the wedding in the third episode.

    This is the only time Sarah refers to Sisko as her son.

    During the writing process of the first four episodes, they realized that they had introduced the Dukat and Winn plotline too early (as they wouldn't be needed again until the final episode), so the eventual blinding of Dukat was introduced in a future episode to help stall their role in the plot until the finale.

    Admiral Ross's wedding speech was composed by David Weddle, who based it on Picard's speech during the O'Brien's wedding on TNG, which was written by Moore, who based it on Kirk's speech from TOS's Balance of Terror, written by Paul Schneider.

    Solbor was intended to only have one line of dialogue but his role was expanded after the producers were impressed with his Pah-Wraith scene. The claim that no one has ever seen a Breen under their helmets is seemingly contradicted by a scene in Indiscretion where Kira and Dukat steal the uniforms and helmets of two Breen guards they knocked out.




    DS9 719: The Final Chapter, Part III: Strange Bedfellows
    -Premise: The Dominion and the Breen negotiate an alliance; Ezri and Worf are sentenced to death. (Part 3 of 9)

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Martok's storytelling is infectious. Damar's reaction at Weyoun's death is quite amusing. He's been waiting a long time for that chuckle, I think. Not much to comment on here- the Worf/Ezri scenes are good and the Weyoun/Damar scenes are even better. Winn and Dukat embracing the Pah-Wraiths are obviously an important step forward as well.

    Trivia: Following the shifting of the wedding to the second episode, Moore's writing on the episode was thrown off schedule when his wife went into labor early. Since Moore needed to take the week off, forcing other writers to abandon their own episodes in order to complete this one, which made things hectic behind the scenes.

    Martok's scene at least partially replaced the wedding sequence shifted out of the episode during the writing process. This episode was originally titled "Eclipse" (to follow on from "Penumbra" and the intended title of the second episode, "Umbra”).

    From Memory-Alpha:

    "It was during the shooting of this episode that a joke was spawned at the expense of the Breen; "How do you defeat a Breen?" "You ask him to walk across the room."

    As assistant director B.C. Cameron explains, "We were working on "Strange Bedfellows", and it was the last scene of the day. Everybody was tired. We were shooting on the Dominion ship's bridge, and the Female Shape-Shifter was supposed to walk in and be introduced to the Breen commander. So I went over to the Breen background extras and told one of them – a great guy named Wade Kelly – to walk across the set and go out the door when we start rolling. But the minute we rolled camera, I realized I'd made a terrible mistake.

    Poor Wade couldn't see, but he was determined to give it a shot. Sure enough, he gets to an angled piece of the wall that was sticking out and trips, hitting the wall with a big clunk. Then he tries to see if he can find a way past this thing. But he just keeps going clunk, clunk, clunk. I'm thinking, 'Stop, Wade. Just stop.' But he keeps going and finally he gets past his piece of wall and heads for the doorway. But he forgets there's a threshold there, trips over that, grabs the walls, trying to hang on, finally gets out the door. By this time, I can't see him, but I can hear this huge noise, like he's ricocheting off the walls out there like the ball in a pinball machine. It was the funniest moment of the entire series."


    Up Next: DS9 720-722: The Final Chapter, Parts IV-VI: The Changing Face of Evil, When It Rains... & Tacking Into the Winds.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
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  15. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    [​IMG]


    DS9 720: The Final; Chapter, Part IV: The Changing Face of Evil
    -Premise: The Breen ally with the Dominion and attack Earth, the Federation Alliance loses its foothold in Cardassian space, Legate Damar organizes a rebellion, and Kai Winn begins to read forbidden texts about the Pah-wraiths. (Part 4 of 9)

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: "The Breen have attacked Earth.”. Oh crap, that's worse damage inflicted than Nero or Kelvin Khan.

    [​IMG]

    Strange that Miles and Julian would build a full model in the middle of Quarks. I mean, where are they going to put that when they’re done? What’s to stop a random drunk from messing with it?

    "You're a good friend, Worf."
    "I know."

    Oh, man, is Worf going to win the Alamo? [face_laugh]. Wait- is the running Alamo subplot actually going to help them win against the Dominion?

    Death of the Defiant, oof- "She was a fine ship.". Oof.


    "Poor Captain Sisko. I believe he was quite fond of that ship."

    ”I could be the last Weyoun. That's why he picked that target."

    Nice little end-of-episode-but-not-cliffhanger couple of beats. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: This is the first appearance of a Nebula-class starship in battle. It had been left out of previous battles for being too similar looking to a Galaxy-class.



    DS9 721: The Final Chpater, Part V: When It Rains...
    -Premise: Sisko and Kira aid Damar's rebellion against the Dominion; Bashir discovers that Odo is infected with the disease that is threatening the Founders. (Part 5 of 9)

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: 311 ships lost at Chintauka.

    "But, realistically, it's going to take a while before we can figure out a way to protect our ships." good to know there isn't a technobabble insta-solution to everything.

    Garrak! Huzzah! Kira given a Starfleet commission and uniform. Gowron and his baby blues.

    "I guess we're not invited."

    Oh, I just realized that Dumar's second over the past couple episodes, Gul Rusot, is played by the same actor that plays Neroon and Mr. Welles on B5.

    Section 31's actions being felt even if they're not physically present. It's nice that Winn gets, well, a win over Dukat after being manipulated by him for so long.

    "Did I ask your opinion?" You did. Like, 20 second ago.

    Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Directed by Michael Dorn. Once again a change was made to the story plan for an episode that upset Moore's next episode- in this case, changing from the original idea that Odo was infected but would not get sick to actually getting sick.

    Originally, Damar was to remain a double agent amongst the Dominion but the rebellion plotline was altered so that regular characters could directly interact with him. Originally, Kira and Garak would be the ones helping Damar. However, another writer felt that Kira and Odo should be the ones hunting for the virus cure. Behr didn't want to break up Kira and Odo though so it became Kira, Odo and Garak helping Damar and the cure search was shifted to Miles and Julian.

    Ron Moore once summed up this episode as "Damar is Spartacus!”. Background displays suggest these final events are taking place in June of 2375;


    DS9 722: The Final Chapter, Part VI: Tacking Into the Wind
    -Premise: Gowron begins reckless attacks against the Dominion; Kira and the Cardassians plot to steal a Breen weapon. (Part 6 of 9)

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    -T2Q Comments: Interesting that we see this argument between Bashir and Miles centered around their backgrounds. Miles has done a lot of spy work but ultimately is arguing for a solution tracking down that aspect of Section 31 whereas Julian is adamant that medical science can find a solution (and, in the process, has abandoned the spy games that so fascinated his enthusiasm earlier in the series).

    "No! No more cloak and dagger games. Science is the answer here.Every puzzle has a solution. Every disease a cure. It's just a matter of finding it."

    Sisko tearing down Gowron and his Baby Blues. The whole exchange between Weyoun, the female Changeling and the Breen is good- the whole subtext to her question on the cloning facilities being restored is great.

    Kind of a cheat that the "Cardassian shuttle" is just a Runabout with orange glow added to it (despite still bearing an NCC designation). Ok, I jumped the gun there, they're transferring to the actual shuttle in the next scene. Woah- a Cardassian station that isn't a Terok Nor-style station. A biggun too.

    [​IMG]

    Worf opening Gowron's Baby Blues for the last time. Interestingly, though I had been spoiled about Worf killing Gowron long ago, I hadn't known about Martok taking over so that was a pleasant change (I had figured that Worf would have to take command because Martok would be steadfast in his "serving the Empire" position and that Worf's victory would force him into Chancellorship).

    Damar's decision here isn't unexpected but I like the reasoning he provides behind it so it doesn't feel obligatory. Would flooding the compartments with gas really affect the Breen? Aren't they wearing, ya know, gas masks?

    So, another good episode. It's kind of impressive, really, that this episode has so much tension for a sequence involving waiting around. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: The story for this episode was the first to be affected by the change in overall plot made during the previous episode to having Odo actually become sick. The end of this episode had originally had Bashir and O'Brien set out to a planet that was the Section 31 HQ, however that would make the next episode's budget eat into the budget for the final episode, so the planet was changed to an interior setting and the end of this episode was rewritten to set that up correctly.

    There had long been an intent to return Kira to her terrorist ways again but it had been difficult to justify it until this arc.

    Originally, Worf successfully convinced Gowron that he wasn't acting in the best interests of the Empire and he returned to Qo'Nos so that Martok could resume control of the war effort, but Moore felt that it let the Empire off too easily and took a “cold eye” Ezri-like approach to the Klingon Empire he had created by showing that, despite all their talk about being honorable, they aren’t able to live up to their ideals.

    Michael Dorn apologized to Robert O’Reilly after reading the teleplay for killing his character. Actors cannot get up off the ground in full Klingon costumes by themselves. O'Reilly had spent his last day of filming playing the dead body of Gowron. After filming he asked for Dorn to help him up but Dorn had already left the set, prompting O'Reilly to say "Boy, once they kill you off, they forget all about you."

    A scene cut for time had Ezri asking Worf what it was like to stand at the pinnacle of the Empire for a moment and Worf says he remembers wishing his father had been there to see it. Ezri they replies "I think he knows... and so does Jadzia." before raising a toast to his brief reign.

    Worf is responsible for starting and ending Gowron's reign. In TNG: Redemption, Worf expresses the same sentiment as Martok here about it being inappropriate to challenge a Chancellor during a war. In Apocalypse Rising, after Gowron and Worf fight, Gowron remarks "You should have killed me when you had the chance- you won't get another". Obviously, he was wrong.

    For unstated reasons, Thot Pran replaces Thot Gor as the leader of the Breen in this episode. This is the last time you see the interior of a Runabout. Armin's wife appears here as the Vorta Luaren. Armin himself was absent for this episode or the next due to him filming the final episodes of Buffy season 3 which involved his character in an important role.


    Up Next: DS9 723-726: The Final Chapter, Parts VII-X: Extreme Measures, The Dogs of War & What You Leave Behind.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  16. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    hah, I really should just watch Gowron becoming chancellor and Gowron being killed episodes back to back sometime.
     
  17. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    One of the things I really liked about Ezri was how much she wasn't a Klingon fan, especially compared to Jadzia (and Curzon). She doesn't list all the times but just the reference to Worf sacrificing personal honor for the Klingon Empire sure brings up a lot of episodes. That for such an "honorable" culture they're sure treacherous. Its a bit sudden to be rid of Gowron, not that he was ever all that nice but usually he wasn't quite this much trouble.

    And is it me or is it a bit abrupt that apparently the Breen had been hiding a weapon this powerful but never used it before. Enough to turn the tide of the Dominion War and even hit earth. As if the Dominion didn't already have enough advantages.

    Oh, this last arc was when Damar really hit center stage. I've said this before, but its insane how such a minor character became so important in this last arc and it felt so natural too. Him laughing at Weyoun's death(s) is funny but then he gives the Federation Alliance breathing room at a very important moment. And nice way of things coming full circle with Kira now teaching guerilla tactics to Cardassians, especially with how minor Bajor (and the Prophets) had become in the last few seasons of the Dominion War. Its too bad they didn't have time to bring up the matter of Ziyal but guess they had plenty of other things to worry about (I came across a short story that referenced that once I think).

    And I think Voyager messed things up much earlier than not giving themselves enough time to properly tie up loose ends and ongoing plots. Such as not bothering to have much ongoing plots in the first place and becoming the Seven of Nine and Janeway Show with special guest star the Doctor. The cast was more than decent, the writing just fell off a cliff by the later seasons.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
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  18. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, they did have to punch-up the crazy in Gowron to make these events happen. Would have been nice to see them build to it more naturally over the seasons. Maybe they felt we were getting too comfortable with Gowron. I mean, I guess you could justify saying the Klingon attack on DS9 in Way of the Warrior and the Klingon war with Cardassia were early examples of Gowron's conqueroring desires but he wasn't entirely unreasonable in those scenarios.

    The Breen hiding a weapon doesn't seem that out of place- we know the Breen, in general, are very secretive and isolationist (such that most can claim to having never seen one without a helmet on). They'd also know that the Federation tends to be able to adapt to any technology you throw at them (see the Federation adapting to the Dominion's weaponry and tech) so any kind of powerful specialty weapon has a likely chance of only being effective for a short window of time. So, if they had used it in their first skirmishes with Starfleet, they might lose the effectiveness of that weapon by time they engaged a major target. By keeping it in reserve, they can use that window of opportunity to strike a high value target like Earth at their choosing.
     
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  19. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    anyone else think whenever the Breen show up that they stole Leia's bounty hunter outfit she used to sneak into Jabba's palace? I think that all the time whenever I see one.
     
  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Everyone. How many more "yah-tay, yah-tay, yo-toe"s do I need to put into my reviews? :p
     
  21. PCCViking

    PCCViking 6x Wacky Wednesday Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Or they're really saying, "50,000. No less" or "We've come for the bounty on the Klingon and Trill" when bringing Worf and Ezri to the Dominion. :p
     
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  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Beyond the Farthest Star.
    At the Edge of the Final Frontier.
    One Last Battle Has Begun.
    The End of a Legend is Upon Us.

    [​IMG]


    DS9 723: The Final Chapter, Part VII: Extreme Measures
    -Premise: Bashir and O'Brien lure a Section 31 agent to the station in a desperate search for the cure to the disease that is killing Odo. (Part 7 of 9)

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    -T2Q Comments: Julian's angry dart throwing during his Section 31 comments is a good moment. Really makes you want to see it taken down- and the next scene is at least somewhat satisfying in that regard.

    "Remember these? Romulan mind probes. They're not the most pleasant of devices but they're very efficient."
    "They're also illegal in the Federation."
    "Oh, I hope you can appreciate the irony of that statement."

    Miles arguing for his inclusion into this mental link trip seems forced. I don't think Miles would do something like that willingly- especially when he might be better suited to monitoring the equipment hook up or some such. Miles's later comment about "next time you take a trip inside someone's mind, you're going on your own" would make a lot more sense if Chief hadn't been the one to insist he go.

    And the Julian/Miles bromance achieves full admittance.

    A little too dramatically convenient that the cure instantly works on a disease that was slow acting. Quark is going to be pissed that they've been stealing his stuff at night. The dart bullseye kinda lights up like an arrow through a heart. "Shot through the heart and you're to blame, you give love a bad name..."

    So, this episode is interesting in that, unlike the previous 6 chapters, it's very much a bottle show focusing on a single subplot not directly related to the larger war plotlines going on. The gains are on a personal level (Odo being cured, Sloan dying) and those are not often given entire episodes to themselves to explore. So, on one hand, you could technically skip this episode since "we got the cure last episode from the plan we described at the end of two episodes ago" would cover it easily (and I suspect a line similar to that is forthcoming in Part 8). On the other, it's nice to take a breather and explore what could have been summed up in a single line of dialogue as an entire episode. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Original title for this episode was "Night Tremors”. Originally, it was intended that Odo and Kira be the ones to hunt for the cure but the Cardassian Rebellion plotline developed during "When It Rains..." made the most sense with Kira and Garak being sent. Eventually they decided that Odo would go with Kira and Garak as they didn't want to split Kira and Odo up during this arc. The Odo-starring episode concept would have had Odo encounter Dr. Mora inside Sloan's mind where it was revealed that Odo's own "father" had created the changeling disease.

    This was the only episode of The Final Chapter that the writers were disappointed in a little bit as they felt dividing the episode between the Bashir/Sloan story and Bashir/Miles relationship exploration let both down. Before budget considerations further scaled back the episode's visual idea, the inside of Sloan's mind was to be a labyrinth with dark corridors, hidden rooms and traps. Then the idea was to redress DS9 sets in a surrealistic, psychedelic way like Alice in Wonderland, but the reality-fake-out moment in the script dictated that art direction approach be abandoned (as otherwise we'd know we were still in Sloan's mind).

    The use of A Tale of Two Cities is a possible homage to it being used as a gift for Kirk in TWOK. The Federation president from Homefront/Paradise Lost is revealed to have finished his term by this episode. A scene either deleted or not filmed involved Quark visiting Odo in the infirmary, attempting to bait Odo into fighting the disease by suggesting he knew who stole some holo art in a case Odo had been investigating for 9 years.




    DS9 724: The Final Chapter, Part VIII: The Dogs of War
    -Premise: Kira, Damar, and Garak are ambushed on Cardassia; Quark receives a message from Grand Nagus Zek appointing him the next leader of the Ferengi Alliance. (Part 8 of 9)

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: "I hate the carpet. I do."

    Defiant's replacement arrives. Special dispensation to rename the ship Defiant. I know this is only the second time they've pulled the "replace a lost starship with the same class and same name" trick (with Star Trek Beyond later extending that streak) but it kinda doesn't feel earned. Defiant was a notable ship, for sure, and Sisko has done a crap ton for the Federation during this war, but they seem disconnected from the events surrounding the loss of the Defiant. By the same measure, there should be a lot more ships that are renamed sister ships.

    Garak! huzzah! (ok, it's not really a surprise anymore, he's basically been a regular cast member for at least 2 or 3 seasons...)

    "The glamour of being a revolutionary."

    Is Garrak's housekeeper the same actress as the Female Changeling? Sounds similar in the voice. Quark quoting Picard is a bit too on the lobes. The selection of Rom, while obviously meant to be a twist, feels way too far out of left field. Outside of the family connection it doesn't really seem in the character's nature.

    Setting the pieces into place for the series finale, tying off a few plot threads , Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Directed by Avery Brooks. Patrick Stewart also directed the second to last episode of his series.

    The USS San Paulo was named after the San Pablo in The Sand Pebbles (a movie directed by Robert Wise, who directed TMP). Sisko's line of "Hello ship" is an homage to Steve McQueen's line towards his new ship in that film. The Defiant was brought back because it seemed wrong to not have it participate in the last battle of the war and there was no way to do the big final battle scenes without due to its presence in stock footage.

    Ron Moore intended, and fought hard, for the ship to called the Defiant-A. However, budget constraints (the script for the finale had already been scaled back by several hundred thousand dollars) meant that it would have been impossible to either build a new model (physical or digital) to reshoot all new scenes with (as reusing stock footage would be impossible) or digitally add or rerender) the “A” to existing stock footage sequences. He still considers it the Defiant-A.

    The new Defiant was originally going to be introduced at the end of Tacking Into the Wind, but that episode ran too long so the ship’s introduction was moved back to here. The set of the new Defiant was intended to convey that the ship was brand new, with “shining new consoles, new carpeting, slick new VPB wallpaper, etc”. The first draft of the relocated scene referred to the ship as being “only two weeks out of the yard” and having broken the original Defiant’s speed record on this first journey to DS9.

    The dedication plaque, as the San Paulo, had the registry number of NCC-75633- which is the highest NCC registry number seen in Star Trek (though one assumes the upcoming Picard show will finally depict something as having surpassed that mark). It’s registry number was reverted to the NX-74205 to match stock footage (and, sidenote: easy way to remember the Defiant’s number? It’s Rod Roddenberry’s birthday of Feb 5th, 1974: 74/2/05).

    The idea of making Quark Nagus was floated around but it was decided they needed him in the bar for continuity- and they couldn't leave Zek in office due to the changes the character had undergone. The writers felt the audience could make the leap that Ferenginar had become progressive enough that Rom would be suitable to lead where Quark or Zek could not, similar to the change in society Moogie had caused. Shimerman was also happy that Quark didn't become Nagus, feeling that Quark was a part of the station.

    Shimerman was also surprised to realize how much Quark had changed over the years despite recognizing it in other characters. re: the Picard line, Moore (who wrote both this and FC) said "I take great glee in mocking my own work”.

    Quark's line of "This establishment will be the last outpost of what made Ferenginar great." is a reference to the first episode to feature Ferengi (including Shimerman) in TNG, "The Last Outpost”. Sisko's line to Dax about missing staff meetings is an homage to Kirk's similar line to McCoy in TSFS. Quark claims that he is the last great Ferengi. Dukat once claimed he was the last great Cardassian.
    [​IMG]
    This is the only episode to show the Breen Confederacy logo. Combs plays both Brunt and Weyoun in this episode. A deleted scene has Garak, Damar and Kira get drunk in Tain's basement. This is the final appearance of Rom, Leeta, Zek, Ishka, Malhar'Du and Brunt, as well as background characters Broik (Ferengi waiter) and M'Pella (dabo girl) (who were allowed to speak in this episode).

    [​IMG]




    The Final Chapter Playlist Promo Playlist.

    DS9 725-726: The Final Chapter, Parts IX & X: What You Leave Behind, Parts I & II
    -Premise: In this final adventure, the Federation Alliance prepares a final invasion of Cardassia. Meanwhile on Bajor, Kai Winn releases the Pah-wraiths from the Fire Caves which threatens the safety of not only Bajor, but the entire Alpha Quadrant. (Part 9 of 9, Series Finale)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Well, here we go. The original goal of this project set 14 years ago* is about to conclude: watching all of DS9 (to contextualize comparisons to B5).

    *I actually began the initial part of this project about a year and a half before I began this thread, starting slowly [those early TOS episodes were a sludge] before ramping up to the pace of the thread.

    "Reports of my death have been exaggerated". Picard kinda referenced that quote as a joke about assimilation in First Contact. Though this is also referencing that source quote, that technically makes two episodes in a row quoting First Contact.

    And this'll be the last time I get to see this lovely title sequence in front of a fresh episode. Unlike the other Trek shows, I’ve gone through the entire series without ever skipping past it (in either version).

    So we have someone dressed as the very, very Boushh-like Breen making the surprise reveal of being the main female character of the series when they take their mask off. It's REALLY hard not to notice that.

    "Now that he knows how I feel..."
    "I am happy for you."
    "That's a relief"
    "But...I am going to kill him."
    "You're kidding right?"
    "And Jadzia said I did not have a sense of humor."

    The blinding of Dukat is kinda resolved quickly/brushed aside in a “Time for the finale, that time killer subplot isn't needed anymore" kind of way.

    It's actually quite frightening to see the Female Changeling actually angry here. "Well, I'm glad we all agree."

    Gotta love the mounted-onboard-the-Defiant camera loop shot during the battle. There is a LOT of stock footage going on in this battle- both starship and dying crews. If this ever gets the HD treatment I hope they’re allowed to replace those with new shots. Here's a fan-made recreation of two of those original shots in HD, including that Defiant shot:



    Cardassian fleet turning against the Dominion- now it really is an Alpha Quadrant fleet (minus the Breen). A surprising lack of focus on the Romulans in this battle- we get a couple glimpses of their ships and one notable shot firing at the retreating Dominion forces but for the most part everything with them occurred offscreen (the command ship being destroyed, even the Romulan forces that the Defiant was supposed to be backing up are never seen/occurs during the commercial break. Not to mention the Romulan representative isn't included in the viewscreen chats between Sisko, Ross and Martok). I mean, I understand they need to reuse as much stock footage as they can (from past battles that didn't include the Romulans, so, thus, can't include them here) but given how important getting them involved in the war was/is, it's unfortunate to not get to see them get some glory.

    "Songs will be sung about this day" or at least a few seasons of television. Also, I will be very disappointed if fans haven't already written songs (in Klingon, of course) about this episode/battle ;).

    "We've reached the end of one journey and stand ready to begin another." We've reached the end of the first episode of this finale and stand ready to begin the second half.

    “Is that better?"

    "All during my exile I imagined what it would be like to come home. I even thought of living in this house again. With Mila. But now she's dead and this house is about to be reduced to a pile of rubble. My Cardassia is gone."
    "Then fight for a new Cardassia."
    "I have an even better reason, Commander. Revenge."
    "That works too.”

    Steamrunner-class! Woah, haven't seen a K’Tinga for a long time. Gotten used to BOPs and Vor'chas. Still no Romulan on the viewscreen (though you do see Warbirds in the background pretty clearly at least).

    "Lets get on with it."
    "Godspeed, everyone."
    "Kalpa!"

    [​IMG]

    A Romulan at the table! Finally.

    ”Excellent! An ambassador who'll go targ hunting with me! Perhaps being Chancellor won't be so bad afterall!"
    "Any idea where you're gonna live?"
    "No, Keiko and I are still mulling over a few possibilities."
    "Have you ever considered Minsk?"
    "I don't think that's on our list."
    "New Orleans is a gorgeous city."
    "I've heard great things about Paris."
    "Minsk."
    "Jadzia loved Rio."
    "Well, you've certainly got a lot of choices."
    "Yeah, too many."
    "Minsk."

    "To the best crew any Captain ever had. This may be the last time we're all together. But no matter what the future holds, no matter how far we travel, a part of us, a very important part, will always remain here, on Deep Space Nine."

    I’ve heard that speech (or at least part of it) from the Hallmark ornament I’ve had for, now, decades.

    I kinda feel like this Pah-Wraith conclusion feels underdeveloped and out of place at this point. I don't get a sense of the urgency for Sisko to do what he does when he does.

    "But I will be back" in a movie that we'll probably get one day. What? Dammit!

    Odd that there's no Jadzia in Worf's flashbacks. Beautiful final shot.

    So, obviously, with this wrapping up the Emissary plotline from the pilot, the Dominion War arc from the series proper and providing the fates of the entire cast, this one is Definitely Essential.

    [​IMG]

    Trivia: The final scene to be shot was the scene of Quark playing Go Fish with Vic. Various producers, writers and actors from the show appear during the party at Vics. And though they did not appear in the scene itself, Andrew Robinson (Garak), Chase Masterson (Leeta), Robert O'Reilly (Gowron) and Robert Picardo visited the set during the shooting of the party. Vic's rendition of The Way You Look Tonight is dedicated to Nana Visitor and Kira.

    Ira Behr was the last person to leave the set (even after the lighting and electrical equipment had been removed), saying ”I have many years to not be here.”

    Just before filming finished, Behr said:
    “The publicity before the show began, which we all supported, was that Deep Space Nine is going to be a darker, grittier Star Trek than you've ever seen before, and that was the intention. But as the show grew, I think we discovered that the real legacy of Deep Space Nine is that it's probably the most human of all the Star Treks, even though it's got the most aliens, it's truly the most human.”

    Moore would later reflect:
    “I think Deep Space was the show that really took Star Trek as far as you could take it. You have The Original Series, which is a landmark, and sort of like changes everything about the way science fiction is presented on television, at least space based science fiction. Then you have Next Generation, which for all of its legitimate achievements, is still a riff on the original, its still sort of like, okay, it's another starship, it's another captain, it's different, but it is a riff on the original. Then here comes Deep Space, and it just runs the table in a different way, it just says, 'Okay, you think you know what Star Trek is?' Let's put it on a space station, and let's make it darker and let's make it a continuing story, and let's continually challenge viewer assumptions about what this American icon means, and I think it was the ultimate achievement for the franchise. Personally, I think it's the best of all the shows, I think it's an amazing piece of work.”

    The title references a quote that has been used in a few different ways. One version, by Pericles, was later used as an epigram in an omnibus of DS9 relaunch novels: ”What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.”

    Originally they had planned to kill Sisko off during the Battle of Cardassia and resurrect him to battle the Pah-Wraiths but they felt that it would undermine the need to create Sisko in the first place. As originally shot, it was said definitively that Sisko would never be able to return to his corporeal life. However, a couple days later, Avery Brooks spoke to Behr about being uncomfortable with the negative 21st century connotations of a black man leaving his pregnant black wife to raise their child alone, even if it was only conveying sorrow in a 24th century context. So, the scene was rewritten and reshot to specify that Sisko will return some day.

    Another possible concept the producers considered was ending with a shot of Benny Russell (from Fsr Beyond the Stars) sitting outside a TV soundstage holding a script for Deep Space Nine, suggesting that the series (or all of Star Trek) was a dream or prophecy from the Prophets.

    The final shot of the station was the first and only time a CGI model was used for it. Due to Avery accidentally hitting Marc Alaimo (Dukat) for real and the resulting scheduling issues while he recovered, their scene was shot on separate days while the other actor was not present.

    The Defiant's bridge set was kept for use for various bridge sets on Voyager and Enterprise. Voyager's holodeck set was used to serve food during the final days of shooting. Though not spoken in the final script, the Romulan flagship was to be named the D'ridthau.

    Jadzia's absence from the montage was the result of not being able to get Terry Farrell's permission to use her likeness. Behr elaborates:
    ”We had planned to see Terry Farrell in the flashbacks but she refused to let us use any of her clips. The way I see it is this: Her manager was informed that we were thinking of using Terry in a scene in the final episode. It would have probably been three hours of work... maybe four. The price they quoted us was too high for the budget. After all, this was a show where we had to cut out hundreds of thousands of dollars from the original draft. Her manager was informed that we weren't going to be able to use Terry.

    And on top of it, the scene we had been thinking of for her was really not that germane to the plot. I think Terry's feelings were hurt. When it came to the issue of the clips, they again felt that they would prefer that we went a different way without using the character of Jadzia Dax. So we did. I wasn't happy about it. I'm still not happy about it. But it is a reminder that even Star Trek is just part of the great showbiz sludge.”


    A joint poll between Trek websites and fan clubs at the time ranked this as the second best episode of the series behind Trials and Tribble-ations. Avery Brooks is the only actor to appear in every episode of the series. This was the final Trek episode to air before DeForest Kelley passed away. This is the only series finale (beyond TOS) to be set entirely in the "present" of that respective series. This is the only series finale to not mention a stardate.

    The second to last scene of both Emissary and WYLB are Kira confronting Quark with new rules for his bar. O'Brien mentions "flux capacitors" in this episode- an obvious nod to BTTF. This is the only episode of DS9 where Salome Jens is specifically credited as the Female Changeling;

    The tune playing when Miles is taking a last look at his quarters is of The Minstrel Boy, which he sung with Captain Maxwell in TNG: The Wounded. The novelization elaborates on the Cardassians turning against the Dominion: Weyoun sent his message about the destruction of Lakarian City to not just Cardassia but to the fleet as well. Another novelization scene features the Dominion fleet leaving through the wormhole. After it closes, Ross declares ”Ladies and gentlemen I have the privilege of announcing that for the first time in two years there are no Dominion ships in the Alpha Quadrant!”

    Hertzler improvised Martok's final line on Cardassia in Klingon, as originally there was none in the script. His line translates as “Humans, go figure!”. In the DS9 Relaunch novels, Sisko returns on the day of his daughter's birth (Rebecca Jaw Sisko) and turns down an offered promotion to Admiral to live on Bajor with his family in the house he designed which Kasidy built in his absence. Weyoun 9 is later cloned in the Gamma Quadrant from surviving genetic material.


    [​IMG]
    The Babylon Project Log:

    -Space stations ending with a numerical designation that are of commerce ports in nature (prominently featuring a casino area), near a giant swirling blue vortex passageway (wormhole/jumpgate) used for travel and a location of advanced creation (prophet temple/Great Machine).
    -Hard-edged female second in command, pessimistic, sarcastic security chief. somewhat ethnic doctor.
    -Characters named Dukat/Dukhat
    -A spiritual race recently coming free of occupation by a more militaristic civilization, the conflict of which led the spiritual race to become more militant themselves.
    -Gambler conman (Quark/Londo) has somewhat fluctuating antagonistic friendship with hard-edged chief of security (Odo/Garabaldi).
    -Characters played by Julie Caitlin Brown have a long-standing grudge against a notorious murderer who has prolonged their life at the expense of others through scientific experimentation (Rao Vantika/Jha'dur "Deathwalker").
    -The term "Changeling" has significance in relation to early parts of both series (the B5 pilot "the Gathering" and DS9's "Vortex" & beyond), though applied to different elements (technology versus a species).
    -A main character slowly constructs a device (chrysalis/clock) piece of piece in their quarters while conversing with a subordinate .
    -A main character often referred to as Chief (Miles/Garibaldi) has a recurring assistant (Neela/garibaldi's Aide) who is a plant by another faction that attempts to bring about political change by assassinating a prominent rival leader (Bariel/Santiago) in the first season finale so that one of their faction may replace him (Adami/Clark). Their plot is uncovered by the Chief character.
    -The Circle/Homeguard Bajoran for Bajorans, vandalism with a symbol; subdues and brands an alien on the middle of the forehead with their logo
    -Second Season opens with a command officer (Sinclair/Kira) being reassigned from the station to be among the religious order of a species heavily involved with the operation of the station, partly due to prophecy
    -A near-human alien race has their hair up in a fan-style to represent social status.
    -A character played by Julia Nickson (Catherine/Cassandra) romances (or attempts to romance) the commander of the station (Sinclair/Sisko).
    -Characters have discussion of higher and lower lifeforms awareness of each other to that of ants (Odo & Kira/G'Kar & Catherine Sakai).
    -3rd Season Premiere introduces a new prototype warship for use by the station's crew using technology from other races (Vorlon/Romulan), in response to the appearance of a powerful new enemy race (Shadows/ Dominion)
    -Image of female commanding officer of station used (or attempted to be used) in an erotic hologram program against her knowledge/wishes.
    -Shady Political Organization develops it's own fleet of ships in secret without knowledge of the military (Obsidian Order/Psi Corps)
    -A redheaded female character named Leeta/Lyta becomes a recurring character on the show in 1995, played by somewhat similar looking actresses.
    -During a time travel story in the 3rd season, the Commander of the station becomes/takes on the identity of a key historical figure.
    -An alien brings (or is speculated to have brought) knowledge of the future to the past that is passed on by others as religious prophecy amongst a spiritual people.
    -A main character uncontrollably flashes forward in time and attempts to use those visions to change future events (Miles/Several)
    -The Doctor must, through strength of will, fight his way through a potentially fatal wound inflicted by a one-shot criminal, guided by vision(s) of a familiar face(s) representing a different facet of his mind. (Bashir/Franklin)
    -The opening title sequence involves people in spacesuits doing external repairs to the station to convey a sense of scale
    -Weapon systems of the station are upgraded for a coming battle
    -Weapon systems on the station of similar design emerge from hidden ports
    -The station, after harboring political/military refugees/fugitives, must defend itself in battle (both against ships and boarding parties) against former allies. Re-enforcements to the attacking forces are known to arrive just as allied re-enforcements do so, forcing the resolution to the battle to make the attacking forces standdown.
    -A warrior of alien traditions joins the main cast about midway through the series.
    -A main character is involved in a "lesbian" relationship in an episode that aired in October 1995.
    -The main character (Sheridan/Sisko) serves under a high ranking Earth military officer played by Robert Foxworth (Hague/Leyton), who is attempting a coup against the Earth's government.
    -A guest character undergoes a mindwipe/death of personality. (chronological viewing also results in this episode being back to back with the VOY episode that features Brad Douriff, who plays the guest character on B5)
    -Labor disputes attempted to be resolved "by any means necessary" via enforcers.
    -A main alien character becomes more human through a drastic physical change.
    -The main enemy of the series (Shadows/Dominion) attempt to destabilize opposing forces by inciting war between factions by controlling/manipulating/allying with the rulers of one (or both) sides.
    -The advanced alien race worshipped as holy figures have a cast-off (or opposing) faction/race villified by the same races (Vorlons/Shadows; Minbari, Narns, etc).
    -A character has a vision of being on a planet and looking up to see enemy forces blot out the sun (Londo/Sisko)
    -The station Captain has fragmented visions of events to come. (Sheridan/Sisko)
    -A character initiates an area spread of a attack with a weapon to reveal and kill two cloaked enemies they only suspected were there.
    -The characters visit a derelict sister station. (B4/Empok Nor)
    -After being launched in full swing at the end of a season, the major conflict against the powerful race that the series has been building up to achieves a significant resolution in the 6th episode of the following season, involving the main character seeking the intervention of higher beings. This sequence of events also involves a debate on an astral plane of existence where higher beings take the rapdily shifting form of the main character's allies. (Sheridan/Sisko, Shadows/Vorlons/Dominion, First Ones/Prophets)
    -A secretive organization charged with protecting other organizations from greater threats utilizes an Inquisitor to interrogate a member of the crew as a means of recruitment. (Vorlons/Section 31)
    -Alien beings on a higher plane of existence do mortal battle aboard the station, fulfilling a prophecy.
    -The lead female officer is killed off just before the final season due to the actress wanting to move on to other roles and is replaced at the start of the final season by another female officer in a similar role.
    -The homeworld of the race (Centauri/Cardassians) collaborating with the main enemy race (Shadows/Dominion) suffers devastation as punishment for disobedience.
    -The major war of the series is resolved through confronting and bargaining with a "god" leading the enemy forces, which results in a stand down/creasing of hostilities;
    -The main Captain character of the series eventually must transcend to a higher plane of existence as part of prophecies made, leaving behind a wife and child(ren)
    -A close-up window shot pulls back to reveal the entire station at a distance via the wonders of CGI.


    [​IMG]
    Babylon 5 Log Conclusions:

    The shows seem to have the most specific similarities at their beginnings and ends, while the overlap in the middle tends to be a little more broad in terms of the war. While you could write several of the similarities off as being too general- and maybe one or two off as weird coincidences, it’s very difficult to ignore them all. Especially towards the end.

    However, I think each series ultimately manages to distinguish itself from the other in what it does with those outlines and specifics. You can see the bullet points lining up but how they’re executed diverge enough to make them distinct- even though you also will often notice those overlapping points, nonetheless.


    Up Next: I’ll be doing a final review of DS9 season 7 and the DS9 series overall in terms of essential & notable episodes and then, after that, we return to our regularly scheduled timeline of just VOY episodes. VOY 519/518: Course Oblivion, 520: Think Tank & 521: Juggernaut.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
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  23. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I dig What You Leave Behind as the scale and proper conclusion to the war arc, although afterwards there is a lot of hanging around which is okay, could end it at the scene in Vic's bar before Sisko feels a disturbance in the Force. I don't really like the final Sisko / Dukat ultimate confrontation at all as the Pa'Wraith's became more prominent as Dukat's final episodes went on. Sometimes I prefer it as their confrontations ended with Waltz. More satisfying that way.

    So it's a whole lot of stuff happening here and the post-war stuff starts to feel a bit mopey and then just outright left field. By contrast, I love every second of TNG's "All Good Things..." because it basically just goes until the final climax/conversation with Q/end poker scene. It's just great.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  24. PCCViking

    PCCViking 6x Wacky Wednesday Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    The Founder proved to be one of the most dangerous villains in Star Trek, perhaps even moreso than the Borg Queen.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  25. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Ha! It hasn't been a full year just yet! ;)

    Really meant to get that DS9-in-summary done but I'll have to do that next time. In the meanwhile, here's the next batch of episodes:


    Say a Prayer For the Entire Crew:


    It's Intolerable:


    VOY 519/518: Course Oblivion
    -Premise: As Voyager crewmembers begin dying, they make a startling discovery about their true identities.
    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Tom and Torres's wedding. This seems kinda sudden- not in their relationship but simply because they didn't build it up as an event prior to this. Not that it has to be built up as an event, mind you, just that TV tends to do these things. It also strikes me that this is now the fourth consecutive Trek series to feature a wedding- Miles/Keiko on TNG, Worf/Dax on DS9, Tom/Torres on VOY and the less-significant-but-still-counts wedding Kirk oversees in Balance of Terror. I wonder if ENT will have one to complete that pattern or if it simply got cut off too soon...

    Harper baby adds to the crew.

    New warp drive shortcutting across galactic core to bring things down to 2 years. That's sudden, given we just got a 15 year advancement. they don’t even explain where it came from- not to mention, how could an enhanced warp drive exist that isn't transwarp? They still have the Warp 10 barrier limit.

    The two events Chakotay and Tuvok review I have no memory of. Aha, this follows up on the Demon planet duplicates. That explains a lot. This might be the first time we've seen the effect on a ship at warp that the loss of the deflector dish would cause. So, in a scenario with. like, 85% of the ship failing, the warp core ejection system actually works for once? [face_laugh]

    Interesting stand-alone (albeit it a standalone that is a sequel to Demon). The premise is good, but it’s a bit slow in the pacing but the growing dread and despair is achieved well. However, the nature of the story also undoes the wedding, which feels like a cop-out. I'll go with Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential- under normal circumstances I'd say that, along with Demon, it'd be Potentially Essential but since no trace of the fake crew survives it ultimately has no influence on the rest of the series.

    Trivia: The copy of Paris here still has the rank of Lieutenant as he had not been demoted like the real Paris was in "Thirty Days”.

    The original sequel idea to Demon was for a two-parter involving the dopplegangers reaching Earth, but it was never produced.

    Co-written by Nick Sagan, who was interested in the doppleganger character concept despite not being fond of Demon itself. The writers intentionally left certain details unaddressed to leave unanswered questions like "How long has that ship been out there? Some of the episodes we saw earlier in the season, was it that crew? Or was it the real crew?



    "Will Janeway Surrender One of Her Own?"


    "He May Look Familiar, But There's Nothing Funny About Him."


    VOY 520: Think Tank
    -Premise: A group of extremely intelligent aliens offers to help Voyager escape from a race of bounty hunters known as the Hazari, in exchange for Seven of Nine.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Pretty cool looking alien design. Much more elaborate than usual. Well, this first one, at least. The second one looks like a rubber bib was put over his face. Is that Jason Alexander?

    The bounty hunter trap and escape sequence is a pretty good setup- some different tricks used here without being outlandish. The Think Tank is, on the surface, something a variation on the appealing idea of a pro-active Federation (minus the extensive infrastructure and resources [and morality], of course).

    These guys claim to have cured the Vidiian phage! That’s cool that they didn’t leave the Vidiians unaddressed but also unfortunate that it was resolved offscreen and in an offhand comment.

    "Your confidence is unfounded, Captain." Uh, I dunno, you've probably seen some of their logs by now, they've kinda earned a degree of overconfidence.

    Mining the debris field- looks like Janeway may have been reading up on John Sheridan.

    They're somewhat casual about Tuvok's use of a mind meld here- especially given how ST6 portrayed an unwilling participant (then again, maybe Vulcan/Romulans are more susceptible than these guys).

    "Cheating is often more efficient."

    "Pull up a chair." Guy keeps standing.

    Fires a full spread, which Dark Frontier establishes as being 6 torpedoes. That seems very wasteful for what is obviously going to revealed as a staged battle for their plan.

    I like how even Janeway is annoyed when he shows up as a hologram one last time.

    "Just give it some…”
    [​IMG]
    “-thought."
    [​IMG]

    So, that was actually a pretty good episode until I start to think about what a missed opportunity it was because they brought up the Vidiians. The opening scene absolutely should have been the Vidiians and not the random (if cool looking) blue alien. Extrapolating further, if the opening scene had been about the Think Tank curing the Vidiians and secretly recruiting them, the Vidiians could have been used as the main threat here instead of the random bounty hunter race- plus you still would have had the chance to design a new alien since Kurros specifies "you would hardly recognize them." and would allow for that identity reveal later in the episode.

    It would have been a great resolution to one of Voyager's early (and best) antagonists and tightened the episode significantly (not to mention give the show the appearance of tying up loose threads, lending an extra air of competency to the series at this stage). Still, while recommended, I'm going to go with Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential.

    Trivia: At one point, Jason Alexander had some trouble with the technical dialogue and jokingly started screaming "Jerry!”. A Seinfeld coincidence has an episode where Jason's character considers naming his child Seven.

    (1/2)
     
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