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Senate [Too Lazy for a Pun Title] Crisis in Bolivia

Discussion in 'Community' started by Lord Vivec, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    This conversation began in the Elections thread but I want to stop it from derailing that and I also want to divorce it from a debate over my generic views on institutions, etc.

    What's happened: Evo Morales is the first indigenous president in a country that has historically treated its indigenous population terribly (but what American country hasn't). When he was elected in 2005, he instituted many reforms, reducing poverty, bringing more equality towards the indigenous populations, and fighting against US influence in the country. This made him (and his country) an enemy of the United States and its allies. He was re-elected again. By this point, the constitution had been amended to include term limits, and thus the supreme court ruled that his first term did not count towards the two term limit, allowing him to run for a third term in 2014, which he won. By the way, that's not an unprecedented thing. In California, Jerry Brown was governor for eight years before term limits were established, and he was governor for another eight years after.

    When it came to the 2019 election, his party (Movement for Socialism) brought forth a referendum to allow him to run for another term. That referendum narrowly failed (49 to 51), but the supreme court ruled that term limits in the constitution were invalid, which allowed him to run. The election occurred, but his opponents accused him of cheating and protests erupted. He offered to have another election, but the military "asked" him to step down and so he did. A far right Christian fundamentalist named Jeanine Anez declared herself president and she and her allies have begun instituting changes. This woman has described indigenous peoples as being Satanic who need to be eradicated from the country. Protests by left wing and indigenous people have begun, and the Bolivian security forces have started using violence on these protesters.
     
  2. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    This is a straight up coup. The US has wanted Morales out of power for over a decade. They want people in power there who will privatize sectors and give favorable policies to US companies because that's in the US' economic interest. That's how we've operated in Latin America for decades. And it's why we've opposed every left wing leader and propped up right wing fascists. The right wing in Bolivia is willing to sell out their countrymen to the United States because we'll back their regime. And in return, they'll get to institute their far right vision for the country: leftists thrown in jail or killed, indigenous people further marginalized, and fundamentalist Christian policies enforced on everyone. This is what Jeanine Anez herself claims to want: She flat out stated that she wants Bolivia free of Indigenous people and she's linked that to her fundamentalist Christian faith. The security forces under her orders are killing indigenous protesters. They have plans to round up elected members of Morales' political party. There is no other word for what this is. It's a coup.
     
  3. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    You can like Morales or not but:
    ^This

    ^this has a very bad optic

    ^logic consequence.

    Even Putin had to make a "break" at some point.

    All those people fail in one point:
    Creating a real successor that is accepted by the people.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  4. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I'm concerned about the Christian extremist who declared herself president of Bolivia. She hates indigenous people, and the country is two-thirds indigenous. Evo Morales was a very effective president, even if he wasn't perfect. But leftists in Latin America have long been targeted by the U.S. and their allies. It's so wrong.
     
  5. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Yes, no doubt about that. I hope for the people in Bolivia that things calm down and do not escalate even more.
     
  6. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    By the way, media don't stress this because it doesn't fit their narrative, but the pressure from the military for Morales to resign would have been inappropriate even in the case election fraud was actually committed.
    I mean it's a non sequitur, the fact that there is election fraud does not require that the military intervene. It's quite impressive how they managed to avoid calling it a "coup", given the circumstances.
     
    Rew and Abadacus like this.
  7. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
  8. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
  9. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    How does a far-right, female fundamentalist Christian theocratic leader even come into existence? Shouldn't she be advising herself to cover her hair and stay silent in church or some such thing? Not that the world would be a better place with a male far-right fundamentalist Christian theocratic leader in Bolivia. It just seems like her "Biblical" followers would notice that she's doing some serious cherry-picking. Or perhaps it doesn't matter if she has any civilian followers in Bolivia, theocratic or otherwise. She's got the people who can bust heads. So.
     
  10. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Simple, she doesn't think it applies to her because she has power. And her supporters don't think so either for the same reason.
     
  11. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    That sounds disturbingly familiar...
     
  13. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  14. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  15. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
  16. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    So I personally think there should be term limits. But since the Supreme Court there ruled Morales could run, he should have been able to run, no problem. That's how it is supposed to work.

    I think his best course is putting all his strength behind a new candidate, this Arce I guess it is. Sounds like he's done that and polling is going well. I hope they can have a fair election now with the negative influences they have from crazies.

    Glad but surprised to hear Crazy is stepping down.
     
    Rew likes this.
  17. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
  18. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    "Somehow Morales has returned"
     
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  19. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    So, to summarize these past few major events:

    1) Evo Morales wins the presidential election
    2) his opponents, backed by America, say it was fraudulent
    3) Morales resigns, and a literal unelected Christian Fascist becomes president (this is somehow more Democratic than keeping Morales)
    4) They hold new elections
    5) Morales' party wins so hard they don't need a second round.

    Maybe...just maybe....the will of the people was always with Morales.
     
    Glitterstimm, Alpha-Red, Rew and 5 others like this.
  20. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Arce is running for a first term! The military should oust him!
     
  21. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    You forgot
    3b) After an investigation, no evidence of election fraud emerges.

    And the media all over the world were overwhelmingly in support of the coup. And so were the American right-wingers. And the Democratic party was criminally silent.

    What an incredible lesson Bolivia just gave to the world. Such a pity that nobody will learn anything.
     
  22. Diggy

    Diggy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Delivera Bolivia.

    There’s your pun. YW
     
  23. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    A year late on this
     
  24. Diggy

    Diggy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    And yet still quicker than you.
     
    blackmyron likes this.
  25. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Think I'm gonna cry. Viva Bolivia, Viva Morales. May these cowards and fascist ghouls know that when they try to do what they did to Allende in the past again, they will be met with the force of the people.
    The american facilitators, the demons like Buttigieg who cheered this coup on, may they all step on lego bricks.
    [​IMG]
    A more significant and moral win for democracy than any outcome in the US election to be sure
     
    Glitterstimm, solojones and Rew like this.