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TPM Chapter 8: Boss Nass DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Moleman1138, Sep 22, 2004.

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  1. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss TPM chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next 8 months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: The Phantom Menace and Chapter 50: End Credits.

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 8: Boss Nass
    DISCUSSION: September 23, 2004 - September 27, 2004
    DVD TIME INDEX: 13:23 - 14:47

    Synopsis:
    The Jedi and Jar Jar are before Boss Nass and the Gungan Council in the High Council Chambers. Boss Nass states that the Jedi do not belong in Otoh Gunga. They brought the burden of the Trade Federation and they don't care what happens to Naboo. Obi-Wan tries to explain that the Gungans and Naboo form a symbiony circle and what will happen to one will affect the other. Qui-Gon suggests if they can't help them then give them transportation. Nass provides a bongo. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan discuss the necessity of having the navigator and indirectly ask to spare Jar-Jar's life due to the life debt. Jar Jar only other fate is to pounded until death. Nass agrees to Jar Jar paying off his debt and the trio leave the chambers. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    I actually like this scene. The mind trick are always a plus as is the manipulation that goes with it. I like how Obi-Wan states the symbiont circle, which ties in later during the final moments on Coruscant.
    I'm not crazy about the whole pounded until death punishment that Jar Jar could receive, however, I did like Jar Jar's final lines "Je guds whatsa mesa thinkin." It's a stupid line, but it gets the point across that "what did Jar Jar get himself into with these sneaky Jedi."

    The anticipation of the bongo was one thing that kept me going in the chapter. What the heck is a bongo? What's this thing going to look like, but as we all know in the next chapter, it's a pretty good ship and this is a good teaser.

    I never understood Boss Nass' shaking of the head and spit goes flying, minus that this is a good chapter. That's surprising with even the Gungans and their ways.
     
  2. HL&S

    HL&S Magistrate Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2001
    More on the redundant life debt. The visuals were great and the dialogue wasn't terrible but I just wanted the scene to move along. Boss Nass might have been a bit over the top. Also I was not enjoying the focus being on Qui-Gon Jinn and not Obi-Wan Kenobi. He started to feel like a sidekick. The focus was on Liam Neeson and the computer animated creatures. Obi-Wan was just there.
     
  3. Aiwendil

    Aiwendil Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2002
    I don't like the Gungans, generally, but I actually do like this scene. Boss Nass makes a more favorable impression on me than the rest. I like his voice-acting. In one or two shots his CG looks a little cartoonish, though. As for his bizarre head-shaking - I actually find this oddly amusing.
     
  4. Panakas_Dawg

    Panakas_Dawg Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2004
    The chapter I would cut. It is either redundant (Jar Jar's life debt) or it is only there to set up information we get later (Jar Jar is clumsy and banished, Gungans hate the Naboo). It's *sole* purpose is getting the three main characters into a transport to get to the palace of Naboo.

    This ground the film to a halt and the following chapter has to work to compensate.

    I liked the prior chapter and hoped this would concern perhaps the need to escape from Otoh Gunga. However, this chapter as is doesn't pay off the setup of the prior chapter. It's meant to setup the Gungans, but it really doesn't give you enough meat to chew on.

    With this chapter, I would've maybe ditched this one and the prior one...finding some other way to get three main characters into a transport. I would've saved the Gungan "reveal" until the later chapter where they have to ask Boss Nass for an army. Or maybe imprisoned everyone there and had them have to escape. That would add some mistrust to the later scene when the army is needed.

    This chapter doesn't even add anything to the later one, except to establish that the Gungan's leader is Boss Nass and they live in an underwater city. Then of course, with my changes, people would've complained we didn't see the underwater city.... LOL
     
  5. Holy_Ben_Kenobi

    Holy_Ben_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Wouldn't this scene have played out better if... bear with me... If Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon had rescued a dignitary from the Trade Federation, let's say it's a Senator for Naboo (not Palpatine) and they get him down to the surface, they meet Jar jar who takes them to the Boss, and they make an "exchange" the Senator for Jar Jar, which is a trick by the Jedi's to force the two species to work together; and later, this would pay off when the Gungans come to the Naboo's rescue.

    Just throwing that out there.

     
  6. Panakas_Dawg

    Panakas_Dawg Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2004
    I like that, HBK. That's what I was getting at is that the scene needed some real narrative value with a payoff at the end.

    However, in your scenario, I'd like to see the Ambassador from Naboo come up with this idea and convince the Jedi to let him stay behind to work with the Gungans. What would seem like a simple plot point (that would leave the audience with a taste of danger, self-sacrfice and uncertainty) would then come to fruition later in the film as the Ambassador then, with Gungan scouts, contacts Jar Jar and then all the good guys meet up and agree to join forces.

    It would also further support Amidala's peaceful nature and her reliance on diplomacy and the democratic process. Again, HBK, you have given this early chapter the kind of meat and dimension it needed.
     
  7. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN

    GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2004
    It's ok. I felt it was slow and needed to be picked up.
     
  8. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE

    ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2001
    I like it when Obi-Wan takes over the negotiating role from Qui-Gon for a moment and tries to reason with Boss Nass (and ultimately fails). I like the unsatisfied look on his face afterwards, like he's disappointed he failed to make a difference.

    I also think the music here is very good. It's very quiet and very subtle but effective.
     
  9. Clear_Water

    Clear_Water Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 25, 2004
    This is just a classic scene. The visuals, the content, the animation, everything.

    For starters it *really* does have the look & feel of a film from the 1930s, the MGM "Oz" in particular. When Boss Nass leans forward and says, "Through the planet core" it always reminds me of Rex Ingram in "The Thief Of Bagdad".

    I love it when Obi goes on his little high-minded tirade and Qui Gon just shifts patiently next to him. I love the laying out of themes: how everyone is connected, how one must help another if one can. I love how Qui Gon starts collecting people here: after telling Jar Jar 'to get out of here' he now sees the unlikely Gungan as being connected to his quest, so he scoops him up, to Obi's great annoyance! Great stuff.

    This scene is, to me, on a level with classics like "The Hobbit" and "Treasure Island", adventure stories at their best. Plus, I'm a HUGE Brian Blessed fan. Can't lose here!
     
  10. heathdaniel

    heathdaniel Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2004
    I agree with everyone that said that the scene was kind of slow and wanted it to pick up a little bit.

    I never really liked Boss Nass or any of the Gungans, so this is one of my least favorite scenes in the movie.
     
  11. GrandAdmiral_Frank

    GrandAdmiral_Frank Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2003
    This is a great scene. Obi-Wan's insight is actually useful advice and Liam Neeson yet again pulls out another true Jedi Master performance.

    Not if it is of any importance but I can do that thing Boss Nass does when he shakes his lips and then says "Be gone with him!"
     
  12. The_Nameless_One

    The_Nameless_One Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2002
    Me too - complete with flying spit ;)
     
  13. heathdaniel

    heathdaniel Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Not if it is of any importance but I can do that thing Boss Nass does when he shakes his lips and then says "Be gone with him!"

    That was one of my least favorite parts of the movie.
     
  14. nethanial

    nethanial Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2000
    I love this scene. I love the dialogue between Obi Wan, Qui Gonn and Boss Nass. The Gungan chamber looks beautiful. Excellent CGI all round including Boss Nass and the gungans.
     
  15. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). TPM Chapter 9: The Planet Core DISCUSSION will be made available 12:30 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
     
  16. Holy_Ben_Kenobi

    Holy_Ben_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2004
    However, in your scenario, I'd like to see the Ambassador from Naboo come up with this idea and convince the Jedi to let him stay behind to work with the Gungans. What would seem like a simple plot point (that would leave the audience with a taste of danger, self-sacrfice and uncertainty) would then come to fruition later in the film as the Ambassador then, with Gungan scouts, contacts Jar Jar and then all the good guys meet up and agree to join forces.

    Even better!

    It would also further support Amidala's peaceful nature and her reliance on diplomacy and the democratic process. Again, HBK, you have given this early chapter the kind of meat and dimension it needed.

    Thank you.

    Let's take this a step forward. What if the "Ambassador" was Bail Organa and the planet was Alderaan? This would've introduced Bail nicely, and it'd connect the OT to the PT. I would've preferred this rather than sloppily establish him in the second episode.
     
  17. Panakas_Dawg

    Panakas_Dawg Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Yes! It would have firmly established Bail as:
    1) Humanitarian and all-around good guy
    2) Suave and capable politician
    3) Man of action
    4) Heroic leader of the oppressed

    A nice set up for the OT. Meesa like. It would also be a nice bookend/counterpoint to Amidala. Amidala would end up leading the charge on the palace, while Bail either spearheaded the Gungan military or led the diversionary forces in the city while the Palace and Gungan battles were going on.

    What better way to reinforce teamwork and heroism as character motivation? And, you're right - a great way to introduce the character.

    If only Lucas had hired you and I to write this film...*$igh* LOL
     
  18. Panakas_Dawg

    Panakas_Dawg Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2004
    HBK, I just thought - wouldn't this scenario with Bail also be a nice way of setting an early stage for the forthcoming galactic conflict?

    Consider this alternate setup:
    Bail Organa, on his way to Naboo to lend support to Queen Amidala during the blockade, is intercepted and never arrives. Qui Gon and Obi Wan are sent to investigate Bail's dissappearance and to mediate a resolution to the blockade (with it hinted at that they are to also serve as "police" if Bail has been harmed or whatever). While Qui Gon and Obi Wan battle their way through the ship, they discover Bail Organa. Freed, he offers no solution to why the TF are making such aggressive moves. They decide to smuggle Bail down to Naboo to meet with the Queen. The party soon meet up with JJB. He leads them to Otoh Gunga. Boss Nass declares JJB a criminal for breaking his banishment and bringing foreigners. Bail suggests that he remain as a "bargaining chip" in hopes of talking some sense into the Gungans of the trouble brewing in the capital and its worlds. Obi Wan asks Bail if he's tired of being a "bargaining chip." QG, OW, and JJB leave in the transport. - CUT TO - TF talking with Sidious, the invasion of the Naboo capital, etc (no planet core sequence) - CUT TO - Theed. QG, OW, and JJB arrive. They almost fall over the waterfall and must use their skills and abilities to save themselves.
    Movie resumes as normal.

    How about that?
     
  19. ratmankey

    ratmankey Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    I hate hate hate hate hate Boss Nass's "blubbering". It's one of the few things in TPM that I simply can't forgive.
     
  20. Holy_Ben_Kenobi

    Holy_Ben_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Sounds good to me.

    Lucas SHOULD'VE hired us, Dawg. :)
     
  21. rechedelphar

    rechedelphar Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2004
    I didnt like this chapter
     
  22. CBright7831

    CBright7831 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Anyway we can up Chapter 03?

    I love this scene.
     
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