TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?

Do you think C3P0 and R2D2 have a tragic existence?

 

There's a good article here: http://www.lardbiscuit.com/lard/ilovetpm5.html that deals with a lot of the criticisms levelled at TPM, and it does deal with the whole issue of slavery. It's actually a good analysis of the issue. Bear in mind that this was all written before the release of AotC:



"Anakin's life as a slave is presented as being way too nice and comfy. Watto seems to treat him and his mother well, and he lets Anakin do fun stuff like podracing. Lucas should have shown Anakin getting beaten and abused as a slave. A more painful childhood would make a better story to explain what turns Anakin turns into Vader."
This is the primary complaint registered by Harry Knowles, that fat tub of goo who runs Ain't It Cool News. I think it's a terribly misguided thing to say. First, this argument is built on the apparent suggestion that being a slave isn't such a bad thing, as long as your owner gives you three hots and a cot, and doesn't whip you too often. I believe most people will agree that being the property of another person, under the threat of certain death if you try to escape, is quite enough to qualify as a heavy-duty childhood trauma, even without physical abuse. Also, even though Ani loves podracing, Watto is greedily exploiting the boy and risking his life by entering him in the races. Shmi would define that as abusing her son.

With that aside, it's way too early to make any criticisms about Lucas's handling of Anakin's transformation into Vader. That won't happen until Episode III, and we have no idea how Lucas is going to play things out. How can you rightly complain about a story that hasn't been told yet, just because you think that it's not going to unfold the way you think it probably ought to? That's the height of presumptuousness.

Wait until Episode III is out. If Anakin's fall to the dark side is presented as hinging predominantly on the psychological scars of his childhood in slavery, then you have legitimate grounds to suggest that his life in Watto's junkshop should have been more harsh, for greater dramatic payoff later. But you don't know that yet.

If I had to guess, I'd bet that Anakin will go bad through his own choosing, by giving in to arrogance, self-indulgence or lust for power. His childhood traumas will influence the course of his destiny, but I don't think they'll be the scapegoat. Wouldn't that be kind of a weak and overly tidy explanation of where Darth Vader came from, that he was a slave as a child, so he grows up to be ****** off at the whole universe? I think it will be more like this: Anakin's slavery is an obstacle he overcomes as a child, which fails to crush his spirit; and later he triumphs through these other trials and hardships (in Episode II), which prove just how strong and indomitable this young Jedi is; but then, finally, it's this whole other terrible thing (his own weakness? love? jealousy?) that finally breaks him down: Vader time. Instead of being the cause of his downfall, his slave childhood could provide a contrast and context that amplifies the tragic magnitude of whatever it is that turns him down the dark path.

But all that's just idle speculation. I'd rather wait and see what happens.

He's actually pretty close with this prediction - it is other human things, like his own weakness, jalousy, greed and attachment, that leads to his downfall. It's nothing really to do with him being a slave at all. And I think he makes a good point about Anakin's life as a slave, that it's not all cushy and fun - he has a transmitter in his body that will destroy him as soon as he tries to escape. I wouldn't call that the best life in the universe.

 

Do you think C3P0 and R2D2 have a tragic existence?

They seem to be made to suffer. It's their lot in life.

 

They seem to be made to suffer. It's their lot in life.

ROTFL!

Thanks, MarkyMark. I really like that essay, and TLB nicely rebutted Harry Knowles's nonsense.

 

That was pretty funny Strilo.

Suddenly, I'm reminded of Gladiator.

A General that became a slave...

A Slave that became a Gladiator...

A Gladiator that defied an Emperor...

 

To go with the average imdb user's speech:
"the imdb totally sucks ass, I mean really, TPM should be made illegal, and oh yeah, Luca$ died in 1983 and raped my childhood, that racist moron."


Boy, the imdb SUCKS when it comes down to discussing movies. It's a horrible place. Should rather be called Internet movie trashing base.

 

AWESOME post DarthyMarkyMark. I agree with everyone you, D. Trull, and others have been saying. Anakin had to be shown as a good and sweet young boy so his fall to the dark side would be more tragic. And it also shows that even living a hard life he was still happy and loving because of the positive influence that his mother had over him and it's also a good way to show how much he's changed after he is separated from her.

 

That's not so much an "essay" as it is a "rant suited for a message board."

 

Yeah, I admit some of the things on his site are more rants than essays, but I happen to agree with most of what he says, and I can see why he got angry writing it. But his analyses of TPM and in particulary AotC are fantastic.

 

Ya know, I've read D. Trull's Why I love The Phantom Menace years ago and I'm glad it has resurfaced.

Trull quotes Mark Twain:

Mark Twain once offered this sage advice to writers and storytellers: "Don't write, 'The old lady screamed.' Bring her out and let her scream." In other words: show, don't tell. A story is more compelling when it lets readers see for themselves what's happening, instead of just stating it. Lucas is guilty of telling when he could be showing on a number of occasions in The Phantom Menace...

Therefore, it might have been more effect to show the hardship of being a slave than just to state it.

 

Hmmm, I wouldn't say his "analysis" is fantastic either. It's no different than what I see around here, and no different than what I would have probably said to rationalize these movies in my days as a Gusher. All these "essays" really do is echo the sentiment that is agreeable, and thus it translates into "brilliance." The logic presented isn't extraordinary, they're basic arguments one might find on the boards before a debate.

 

Therefore, it might have been more effect to show the hardship of being a slave than just to state it.

How do you mean? Anyway, I don't recall anyone in the movie talking about the hardship of being a slave.

 

Loco - I wasn't referring to his arguments, I was referring to his analysis of myth and symbolism in the movies.

 

"How do you mean? Anyway, I don't recall anyone in the movie talking about the hardship of being a slave."

Exactly. Meaning, the movie did not show or much less talk about slavery being a hardship.

 

Exactly. Meaning, the movie did not show or much less talk about slavery being a hardship.

Any particular reason they should have?

 

Yup. The particular reason D. Trull quoted Mark Twain.

 

I'm still not getting you.

 

Its a wonderful life to have an exploding device in your body

 

I think TPM is winning the poll because most people who saw the film missed the point. After all, one thing the movie did was destroy some people's preconceived notions. Everybody expected Anakin to be this punk kid, or at least to be a troubled child. Lucas moved in another direction, and made Anakin very good. Road to Hell paved with good intentions, rather than Anakin starting evil. Let's face it, unless Anakin started good, why would he turn good at the end of RotJ?

Jake Lloyd took alot of heat for his performance, despite the fact that he didn't write or direct it. And I personally believe that people didn't want to see Anakin at that age - they wanted TPM to feature an Anakin who was old enough to use a lightsaber from the get-go.

Also, Jar Jar got alot of bad press. I'll admit that I'm not a fan of the character, but he was a good contrast to the heavy and sedate Amidala. And while Jar Jar may have been a buffoon, the rest of the Gungans were warriors after all.

 

There's a good article here: http://www.lardbiscuit.com/lard/ilovetpm5.html that deals with a lot of the criticisms levelled at TPM, and it does deal with the whole issue of slavery. It's actually a good analysis of the issue.

Ah... an article beginning with profanity doesn't quite do it for me...


You're not allowed to post profanity here, even if it comes from another source.

 

Oh boy.

 

Could have edited out the cursing there, Cold.

 

Actually, after watching the TPM and AotC a lot recently, I feel TPM is very good on its own and AotC is probably the weakest in the saga.

 

Strange, I never had a problem imagining why life as a slave was a horrible thing. Outside of the stigma, Anakin and Shmi hardly appear to be "living it up." They're home and clothing appears destitute, Anakin is immediately angry at the reminder that he's a slave, and, to be honest, the kid looks a bit undernourished for his age (a fact further supported by the AOTC book, which suggested during one of Shmi's thoughtful moments that she and Anakin had little food to survive on), and, really, the whole idea of having a slave device that'll explode if you try to escape is absolutely horrifying.

Why isn't Anakin more downtrodden? He's a child. Children have long been renowned for their ability to manage having at least some happiness in poor living situations, mostly because their needs for happiness are alot simpler. What's Anakin's big dream? To see the stars. Who is the one person who makes him life bright? His mother. I think as long as he had her, Anakin could have handled the slave thing.

Why should he feel so utterly depraved at being a slave? It's the only life he's ever known, and it's hardly his fault he is one. We do see feelings of unworthiness and general upset about his situation in his conversation with Padme, but...Anakin is a very headstrong child. I get the sense that as long as people recognize that he's an individual rather than a piece of property that he really couldn't give a care either way. (Well, at least on the outside. We can argue subconscious inferiority psychological complexes elsewhere.)

 

TPM is fine to me, I am not sure why other people have a problem with it.

Oh well, they already gave Lucas their money for it, so it's not like the fans have anything to worry about when it comes to cash flow for the final movie.