CT Training Leia over Luke?

My intention is not to delve again into the debate over how Luke could seemingly complete his Jedi training faster than any other Padawan in the history of the Old Republic nor even how long Luke stayed on Dagobah to train with Yoda. Instead, I have a couple of questions about the very beginning of this (apparent?) plan with the twins.

First, after delivering an infant Luke to Owen and Beru Lars, Obi-Wan wanders into the Tattoine desert to become a hermit. Later, in ANH, it seems rather clear that up until Ben rescues Luke from the Sand People, Luke had little to no idea of the connection of Ben to the previous Jedi Order. It is at this point that Obi-Wan decides to train Luke in the ways of the Force.

Why wait till Luke is 18-19 years old to do so? My initial thought would be this is a change from the dogma that may have blinded/deluded the Order previously and helped to hasten their collapse. But this would seem to be contradicted by Yoda's initial stern disapproval over training Luke at this age in ESB. This scene also implies to me that the training of Luke was solely the decision of Obi-Wan and not a joint decision between the two remaining Jedi Masters.

Second, an infant Leia is delivered to Bail Organa, a high-ranking politician of the Senate to raise as his own daughter. A high profile, highly public presence. Unlike with Luke who had Obi-Wan nearby all his young life, Leia apparently had no such guardian Jedi mentor in close proximity. Instead, she herself joined in public service and became a Senator.

So, apparently there was little to no chance of training her in the ways of the Jedi even in secret. Only after a few days of training with Obi-Wan, Vader was able to sense the strong Force connection from Luke during the Death Star trench run. Given Leia's role in the Senate and probable presence on Coruscant, would any training allow her to be 'felt' in a similar way in the heart of Imperial Center?

Then why place her in such a prominent public position then? Yoda's remark of "No, there is another." implies to me that Luke was seen as Backup Plan A and Leia was Backup Plan B. A rather callous way to refer to her I think as a mere pawn in this galactic affair.

All in all, this suggests to me that between Obi-Wan and Yoda, there was no concrete plan ever in place for the possible training of Anakin's children other than "if the time is ever right". And if the timing ever was right, then apparently only one would be taught, Luke. For Leia was placed into a position that made it seem nigh impossible for her to be properly trained from the very start.

 

From some of the things Obi Wan says "that's your Uncle talking" and Owen referring to Obi Wan as a "crazy old wizard" I have a feeling Obi Wan may have approached Owen a few times about Luke and was turned away.

 

Waiting had more to do with falling off the Empire's radar than anything else. And Owen has often rebuffed Obi-Wan's interaction. And yes, a part of it is waiting until the time is right. While Obi-Wan gives Luke a little taste on the Falcon, Luke doesn't truly begin to train until on Dagobah, where their activity can remain hidden. If Yoda and Obi-Wan train either of them right away, the ripples in the force would draw attention to them training a new generation of Jedi.

Vader being able to sense how strong the force is with Luke points to Luke's inherently natural power as a force user. It's also exacerbated by the standards set in the prequels to the point it makes Luke either super powerful, or a MarySue.

Yes, it is callous, but both Luke and Leia were seen merely as pawns to take down the Sith by Yoda and Obi-Wan. Probably more so by Yoda, but they both make comments along the lines of seeing either one as a pawn and the other as a contingency.

On a side note, if not for the prequels, none of this is an issue. If not for deciding to make them brother and sister, none of this is an issue. In other words, Lucas made a mess of this sub-plot.

 

It was more like a few minutes. Or an hour or less aboard the Falcon.

Could you explain this in more detail, because I'm confused. Anakin was able to sense the strong connection to the Force in Luke, because the latter was using the Force to destroy the Death Star . . . thanks to Obi-Wan's Force ghost giving him instructions.

 

It was in response to the OP's comments that rail against the notion of Luke's training being the fastest in history, and the problems with Leia being raised by the Organas. These are items that weren't an issue until Lucas tinkered with things. Not that they cannot be explained away, but they created a need for an explanation where none existed before.

 

I never had an issue with Leia being raised by the Organas. However, I've always had a problem with Luke's Jedi training, ever since I first saw "Return of the Jedi" on VHS. And that was before the Special Edition films hit the theaters.

 

I can see the notion of Obi-Wan paying occasional visits to the Lars homestead during Luke's childhood. My question then would be, what did Obi-Wan do during those visits?

At a young age, Anakin was pod racing which was example of Qui-Gon's explanation that people with strong talent towards using the Force often display unique skills/abilities. I would think this would be true of Luke as well. (Except the only example we seemingly get of this is his line to Wedge about killing womp rats in Beggar's Canyon). So could Obi-Wan have been subtly testing Luke of his Force potential over the years during these occasional visits?

Speaking of Luke's training, doing it on Dagobah did help hide it but was the plan all along? Simply that one day, Obi-Wan would just show up on Yoda's door step with Luke claiming that he's ready to be trained? The Empire showing up on Tattooine seemed to force Obi-Wan's hand on the matter but consider: if the Empire hadn't shown up, if the year had passed and Uncle Owen had allowed Luke to leave to join the Academy, what then? Would Obi-Wan have intervened somehow, stopping Luke from leaving?

At this point, I think it's nigh impossible to consider training Leia. Unless they could foresee the Imperial Senate being disbanded and Leia being branded as a Rebel traitor/leader. That would certainly increase the chances of training her in secret somehow but still seems like a longshot.
.

 

I have always felt that Obi-Wan would've wanted to perhaps even train Luke earlier, but was always driven away by Owen. There is obviously much resentment there, when Obi-Wan describes how Owen has or would react to certain things Obi-Wan wanted for Luke. You can just tell there was some sort of uncomfortable relationship there. This would be something I'd LOVE to see fleshed out in the Kenobi series-if there will ever be one LOL.

 

Obi Wan practically rolls his eyes whenever Luke brings up Owen.

 

A simple fix would have been the Jedi actually explaining what their plan is at the end of ROTS. ...oh look what I have...


EXTERIOR: SPACE

Alderaan sits peacefully in space.

EXTERIOR: ALDERAAN-DAY

The royal city of Aldera sits with white grasslands on one side and beautiful snow covered mountains to the other. Light air traffic is seen between the city buildings. On the mountain edge of the city sits the Royal Palace. The Tantive, with all its damage, is parked outside.

INTERIOR:ALDERAAN ROYAL HOUSE-VERANDA

The veranda overlooks a garden with the mountains in the distance. Yoda is seated on the floor playing with the children while he uses the force to float a few small toys above them. He seems to be enjoying himself.

INTERIOR: ALDERAAN ROYAL HOUSE-SITTING ROOM

Obi-Wan looks through a slightly open door to the others. Behind him is an apparition of Qui-Gon.

OBI-WAN: I can’t believe we’re even discussing this after everything we’ve been through.

QUI-GON: Together those children will be too strong in the force. They will draw the attention of the Emperor. And because they symbolize weakness in Vader, the Emperor will have them destroyed.

OBI-WAN: I can’t take the children from Padme, they’re all she has left.

QUI-GON: You only have to take one.

Obi-Wan stands in silence.

QUI-GON: There can be no trace. Wipe the protocol droids memories. The ship you arrived in, scrub its computers.

Obi-Wan drops his head in silence.

QUI-GON: Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan turns to Qui-Gon.

QUI-GON: Darth Vader and his Emperor will stop at nothing to hunt down the rest of our Order and subjugate this galaxy. When those two children are brought back together; it will be the start of something wonderful. But they must survive until then.

EXTERIOR: ALDERAAN ROYAL HOUSE-VERANDA-DAY

Obi-Wan walks over and sits opposite Yoda with Luke and Leia lying between them. The two Jedi share a knowing look. Yoda continues to use the force to float the toys above the infants. Padme and Bail are seated near them as they watch the two Jedi with the babies. See-Threepio and Artoo-Detoo stands near them as the beautiful landscape of Alderaan can be seen beyond the veranda.

FADE OUT
THE END


This would explain why Obi-Wan doesn't bother to train Luke until he suddenly finds out that Leia is in trouble and the force is bringing the kids back together. Then it's time to set off on an adventure.

 

ok @FightoftheForgotten, forgive my ignorance, but-where is that from?

I like that. It doesn't really cover what happens to Padme ultimately, but I wouldn't have minded seeing at least some version of that in the final scene of ROTS.

 

She dies from sadness a few years after the end of ROTS.

Where is what from?

 

Well...that Alderaan "screenplay" you wrote out. Did you get it from somewhere or did you just make it up?

 

I heard the Alderaan screenplay is very explosive.

 

BAA-DUM-TSSSSSS

 

Oh, sorry. It's something I wrote. I rewrote the prequels into screenplays. Although in mine I changed Padme's name to Nelith. I switched it back to Padme for this thread.

 

Intriguing. Why Nelith?

 

Nellith is the name of Luke's lost sister in Leigh Brackett's ESB script.

 

BlackRanger nailed it.

 

Frankly, I don't think Ben actually approached Owen. Why would he? He was practically a stranger, while Owen is something like Luke's legal guardian. He would never have allowed Luke to leave. He needed him on the farm. And if Ben did visit, wouldn't Luke have remembered him? In ANH I got the impression that when they meet, Luke didn't personally know Ben, had only heard of him. On the other hand, there must be a reason why Owen has such a low opinion of that crazy old hermit. When they first met at the end of ROTS Kenobi gave Owen no reason to make him dislike him. So I guess they did have some contact before ANH. So yes, it's possible Kenobi had talked to Owen some times.

 

I never understood that: if Obi-Wan wants really to train Luke, why did he give Luke to the Lars? I mean, the Lars even know that Luke was born. Obi-Wan could have upbring infant Luke by himself from the beginning and starts an early training like in the old Jedi ways. It isn't like he needed to kidnap Luke from Lars' home to do something like that: Lars don't know anything about Anakin's whereabouts, they aren't even blood relatives of Luke and, in some sense, Obi-Wan is basically burderdening the Lars of a huge problem, giving them Vader's son, which they aren't even strictly bound to take. So, it's solely Obi-Wan's choice to put uncle Owen between Luke and Jedi's training.

 

I pictured it being the same way Dumbeldore was in contact with the Dursleys, while Harry Potter was being brought to them. They thought Dumbledore was some crackpot wizard, and knew nothing about the world he came from. Dumbledore basically had to force them to be careful and warned them about the importance of keeping Harry hidden from the wizarding world until he was old enough for Hogwarts. The Dursleys acted like they didn't believe in magic, but all along they knew perfectly well what happened, the importance of Harry, and what all the dangers were. I imagine Obi-Wan's relationship with the Lars family being very similar to that-and Owen was against Luke getting involved into all that. When Obi-Wan talks about Owen, there's clearly some resentment there for interactions they've had in the past. To me it's entirely believable that they could've had a few conversations while Luke was growing up about Luke's future.

 

yes I definitely got the feeling there was history between Owen and Obi Wan. It's understandable considering what happened to Anakin.

 

Well, Owen does confront Obi-Wan in one the new Marvel comics issues. Luke breaks a vehicle, or something, and Obi Wan leaves him a basket of parts, but Ben brings the parts back to Obi Wan and tells him to stay away. You get the sense that this wasn't the first time this type of confrontation had happened either.