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Trakata is now canon, believe it

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The_Pumaman, May 27, 2007.

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  1. The_Pumaman

    The_Pumaman Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2007
    As of the release of the Star Wars SAGA Edition roleplaying game Trakata is canon. Confirmed [link=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12518965&postcount=190]here[/link] by one of the designers, Gary M Sarli.

    I for one thinks it's plenty cool and I've always liked the main concept behind the form/maneuvers.

    How does this make you feel, JC? Any of you who've had a part in creating or promoting this form?

    And I guess this means the Wookiee page needs to get recreated :D
     
  2. browwiw

    browwiw Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2007
    This thread got referenced in the [link=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Trakata]Trakata[/link] Wook? That was quick.
     
  3. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2003
    And why? This thread just points out the WotC thread. :oops:

    And a hearty [face_plain] for fanon becoming canon.
     
  4. browwiw

    browwiw Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2007
    You're gonna need a lot of those constipated faces, [link=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_fanon_elements_in_continuity]then[/link].
     
  5. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2003
    I don't want to do sidescroll. ;)

    Its not so much legitimizing fanon that bothers me so much as it is intellectual lazyness. "Everyone thinks this is true so it must be true." An isolated incident is alright, but if it becomes a pattern... Bad, bad, bad, bad.

    Also, in the WotC boards thread linked to, Sarli mentions that they trimmed background information from the SAGA rulebook.
    Now, I understand why they do this for the core rulebook, but I certainly hope it doesn't spread to their other work. Saying "you can find it somewhere else" is a pathetic excuse for not adding anything original to the universe.
     
  6. Wrinty

    Wrinty Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2007
    WHat in the world is Trakata. Can someone describe in detail wht this light saber form actually is.
     
  7. HedecGa

    HedecGa Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Yeah, in what fanon work did it originate?
     
  8. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    I'm concerned that certain people with an agenda of pushing their own personal canon and holding a death-grip over portions of Wookie now will believe they finally have their chance to make their "correct" view of Star Wars official...
     
  9. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Unplugged until Spring Equinox star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    What blackmyron sez.
     
  10. ATimson

    ATimson Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2003
    The way I read their statements, that's no what they're saying; instead, it sounds to me like that's their logic behind not regurgitating stuff we already know from twenty other sources. Do we really need the RPG book to tell us how many forms of communication a typical protocol droid is fluent in?
     
  11. RogueWompRat

    RogueWompRat Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Indeed. Sometimes I hate the internet.
     
  12. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Sorry but I for one don't give a damn if it has fluff for you guys in there or not.

    First and foremost it needs to be a system that meshes the best of d6 and d20. When the rules have been learned and used, then you can pour over the bones!

    No, I'm not bitter I can't get the good WEG books on eBay because non-RPG canon obsessive SW fanboys bought them already. :p

    E_S
     
  13. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2003
    See, this is where you and I disagree. Perhaps vehemently. :p

    I see the RPG as both a game and a major source of information. I think one reason that WEG was so successful is that it didn't just target the RPG gamer, it targeted the general SW fan as well. It added original information constantly, instead of simply trying to represent what was happening in the rest of the EU. Stuff like the sourcebooks or the Galaxy Guides may be just "fluff" but they are glorious, glorious fluff. Let's face it, a good GM can come up with much better stats than those in sourcebooks a lot of the time. So why make sourcebooks at all...? I see sourcebooks as a place to add original universe content (in addition to stats and RPG mechanics), and a place to broaden the appeal of the product by marketing to non-players and players alike. If they're lucky, some of those non-players might just become players...

    Yes, I understand I'm ranting in a thread discussing a core rulebook, a book which isn't supposed to have fluff. But I'm speaking of the RPG more generally. All IMHO, of course.
     
  14. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    You may also see a Picasso as a work of ferverant minimalism, but... :p

    Sourcebook fluff is there to flesh out campaigns and give the players a sense of the wider universe around them. Part of WotC's problem is that there wasn't enough fluff, and mostly mechanics etc, so you never really got anchored in the setting like you did with WEG.

    Take Chapter 7 (p128->) of the 2nd Edition Sourcebook - "The State of the Galaxy". That history is there to flesh out a campaign, so you can appreciate that that was, and how it might impact on what will be.

    When these books were being written there was no EU. THey fleshed out the universe because the films only dealt with a microscopic slice of that galaxy. Players needed context. It's why the old DragonLance or Forgotten Realms supplements also had fluff - not for non-gamers who read the novels to pour over, but to flesh out those worlds.

    The only difference between FR fluff and SW fluff is the nature of the fanboys. They serve the same purposes, those worlds of fluff - to give a campaign depth, continuity, and the right feeling.

    E_S

    EDIT: "I think one reason that WEG was so successful is that it didn't just target the RPG gamer, it targeted the general SW fan as well"

    Really? o_O I was a gamer when WEG stuff was out, and I was collecting Insider at the time. I never remember any of the then-current stuff being promoted as anything less than a roleplaying game...
     
  15. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Solid points, all of which I agree with, for the most part. :)

    I don't mean to imply that fluff is aimed at non-gamers, but that fluff is appealing to non-gamers. I have absolutely no numbers to back this up, but IMHO if WotC wants to sell more RPG supplements, they should try to strike a good balance between fluff and game material. I think the planet guides (Core and Outer Rim) are prime examples of such a good balance, in that they appeal to both gamers and non-gamers---again, in my opinion. Books like the Galactic Campaign Guide strike me of being balanced more heavily toward the gameplay side, and I would think that that would lead to fewer sales (comparatively), since they appeal more to gamers. A RPG player is equally likely to buy both. But an EU fan will probably only go for the book that contains a large amount of EU information. I'm not suggesting that the RPG be dumbed-down, changed, or sidelined to "appeal" to non-gamers. But I am suggesting that WotC at least think to reevaluate where their priorities are for future sourcebooks, if they want to make this RPG revision more successful than the past 1.5 tries.

    And just because it wasn't promoted to the non-gamer, doesn't mean WEG wasn't bought up by the non-player. The Adventure Journals, for example, were very heavy on the fluff and (I imagine) were popular with the general EU fans of their day. Also, I know there are a number of people on these boards who didn't play the WEG RPG, yet somehow managed to get their sourcebooks. Me, for example. I bought that Dark Empire sourcebook/Galaxy Guide/TotJ Companion/Ewok Grooming Guide you wanted. Yessss... let the hatred build. Your anger has made you powerful. [face_devil] [face_mischief]

     
  16. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    fixed [face_peace]

    I'm seeing 2 very different discussions in here, so I will address each individually.

    1) fanon as canon is just a reality of life...look at mustafar! If Lucas decided to do anything different in "making" Vader, the entire population of Star Wars fans would've screamed "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" and rock the world with the vibration of our lament. I mean, I know people who were mad that Anakin didn't fall "in"...like 20 years of fanon had promised.

    In all seriousness...if you've got something worthwhile to contribute, and can get it heard by the people in license land...more power to you. Editorial control rests with them...and given some of the shortfalls of creativity up there sometimes, letting something come from the fans can be good from time to time. We just have to hope that they will put the good of the universe above a groundswell of support from the internet.

    They let us name Darth Jacen...fan involvement in canon creation is a fact of life.

    ___________________________

    2) "fluff" in rpg books was intended to have little to do with appealing to non-rpg,Star Wars fans...most of the time, this "fluff" can be found in encyclopedias, books, comics, whatever (the only except being early WEG, who were working in connection with LFL in forging the early EU...and even then it often played of each new EU release...the NR sourcebook, Dark Empire, etc)...the real reason for "fluff in rpg books is for avid rpg fans of all genres to pick up the books, see how to integrate a star wars story into the rpg rules system and start a campaign. They would hopefully get hooked by the quality of the system and by enjoyment of "star Wars" which one would hope they don't "dislike".

    Allow me to further illustrate this with examples from personal experience:

    Campaigns I have led include little of the fluff from the rpg books...mostly because I often disagree with certain stats, but also because I adapt the universe to my players...a mixture of both EU-readers and almost total star wars novices. The "fluff" is rarely material that gets thrust into major plot because it strays significantly away from the crux of characters actions and intentions. (The one glorious exception being COMPNOR which is WEG's most excellent contribution to EU...and golden chapter of the either project). My missions also tend to lead to completely unexplored areas of gffa life (once had a party spend 4 or 5 sessions as space truckers hauling foodstuffs around...that was great)

    Over the years I have jumped on board with people campaigning Star Wars without an EU background. These tend to be D&D players, Shadowrun, Warhammer fans who pick up a used sourcebook for a change of pace...find the system somewhat familiar and get started...with little background in EU, they focus heavily on the fluff (and incidentally, always start on a movie planet...7 times in 10, Tatooine)...it's a means to provide the rules and outlines for adventure in one book.

    The fans have taken the rpg books and turned to something they don't need to be...and thus the different approach of WOTC...their intention was to appeal to Star Wars fans to play rpg, not for rpg fans to play star wars. They slim down the "fluff" because they know most star wars fans, even the young ones, can create a mission...and fluff we do get (ex. Coruscant and the Core Worlds) is generalized and encyclopedic...just like any star wars galaxy guide or encyclopedia produced in the last 15 years.

    So the reality is WOTC has alienated the hardcore rpg gamer for the sake of cracking the Star Wars fanbase more completely. The problem is they fail to realize how much stock many Star Wars people put in the "fluff". It was needless...but evidently considered vital by many. Tie that in with rule reworking and whammo...

    And thus why sourcebooks collect dust, and Coruscant and the Core Worlds vanishes from shelves. The rpg audience has been lost, and
     
  17. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    How is this fanon? The story's always been that Anakin got knocked into a volcano by Obi-Wan Kenobi.
     
  18. MarcusP2

    MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Yeah, weren't his recollections of lava crawling up his spine or something in one of the OT novels?
     
  19. HedecGa

    HedecGa Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2006
    IIRC, Vader falling in the lava was also on the toys boxes, right? Right up there with the stormtroopers being clones? I remember talking about that back in 1995 and that was before I'd ever read an EU book (late bloomer over here). Where did that come from...[face_thinking]

    As for the "fluff" in RPG books...heck, that's why I'd buy them. I'd LIKE to be a gamer, but me and my friends don't have the attention span for it. We're more Munchkin speed people ;) But getting more source information on the EU is always awesome.
     
  20. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    The clone thing came from source material that was out long before there was even such a thing as an EU. I remember seeing scans of an ancient British magazine article about stormtroopers. The Vader thing comes from the RotJ screenplay.
    ^ Exactly his point.
     
  21. browwiw

    browwiw Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2007
    [image=http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/browwiw/stormtroopers-clones.gif]
     
  22. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    Was that ever confirmed as canon? [face_thinking]

    It also seems that RotS:ICS canonized a couple of things that Saxton had cited at SWTC, apparently not realising they were fanon: the "Imperator-class" designation and the [link=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unification_Wars_(Republic)]Unification Wars[/link]...

    *has a sudden horrified thought that the stormtroopers = clones idea came about through a similar route (though not necessarily via SWTC)*

    One thing in support of it being part of George's plan is the fact that Fett, who seems with hindsight to have replaced Lando as the "last clone" in ESB, was originally identified as an Imperial supercommando...

    Anyone...?

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
  23. 000

    000 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2005
    No. Never referenced, and not from a licensed source.
     
  24. browwiw

    browwiw Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2007
    It doesn't matter, Paul. Now that it's posted here it gonna get seen. And its gonna get downloaded and forwarded and spread. Then it will become part of the Star Wars fandom collective unconscious.
     
  25. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Regardless, the idea that stormtroopers were clones wasn't simple fanon.
     
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