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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

JCC Transgender, nonbinary, genderqueer

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Dobrolous, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    No, I had a coworker exactly like that last year, which is really how I know anything at all about this issue.

    Why?
     
  2. LambdaChop

    LambdaChop Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2016
    (switching to a sock so I feel comfortable talking about personal **** if it comes to that)
    Because it's one of the most absurd manifestations of the identity fad that I've seen yet and it's published as an explainer/awareness-raising piece in a prominent magazine. (An explainer/awareness piece that completely fails to explain anything about what "nonbinary" means, beyond, like, "I don't feel like a boy or a girl, so use special pronouns for me and if you don't you're a jerk?")

    Like I honestly thought it had to be some sort of satire piece but googling the author's name, apparently not?

    ETA: sorry Ghost if this comes off hostile or like I'm picking on you, I know you're just trying to be an ally or whatever... I'm just totally exasperated by this stuff lol
     
  3. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    It would be easiest to strip gender out of human pronouns for everyone. I. You. Me. We. They. Them.

    Third person singular subjective: wib
    Third person singular direct and indirect object: wub
    Third person singular poseesive: wos

    I went to see my friend Casey. Wib bought a new car. I really like wos new car. In general, I love my friend. I really, really love wub.
     
  4. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I wub you Rylo Ken and I wib your box office discussions.
     
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  5. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    No I understand where you're coming from.

    I was a Team Leader last year, and one person on my team was non-binary. I had to learn all this stuff on the go, along with the rest of my team, especially getting used to only they/them pronouns for that coworker. It was tough but we tried, and would still sometimes slip-up.

    I just really wish I had read an article like that when that person joined my team! It would have been very helpful. Whether I agreed or disagreed, as their supervisor I had to respect their their beliefs and pronouns.

    I do think it's a little unusual to always ask everyone "what's your preferred pronoun?" whenever meeting someone new. That's just awkward and unrealistic. But that's how it already is in some circles.
     
  6. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Social and individual identities are not fads. They're something that has been increasing over the twentieth century, with its nascent idea of the individual, to today with our hyper-individualism. Expect more constructed identities going forward, not less.
     
  7. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Recently, I changed my pronouns on Facebook to gender-neutral. The only comment I got regarding the change is that I am now plural.

    I'm trying to gradually ease myself out of the closet, at least as far as my family is concerned. In public, I'm quite open. In my family, I'm misnamed and misgendered and can't do anything about it without sparking massive controversy that'll end in trouble for me. Bad enough my mom freely slings gay jokes and slurs at me without a second thought, and she's states away. I really don't wanna find out what my LOCAL family will do.
     
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  8. morrison85

    morrison85 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 13, 2005
    I am sorry to hear that. my oh hasnr been very great to his transgender cousin either.. I like that fb gives you the option for gender but I don't like that you have to put a certain pronoun in too .
     
  9. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    I've mentioned getting a binder around my brother and he launched into a tirade about how "silly" I am and how I shouldn't try to change my body and blah blah blah. And then there's my older brother who can't seem to fathom why I refuse to wear feminine clothing. He'd flip his lid if he knew which bathroom I use. My mom thinks I'm "doing it for attention," which is her opinion on everything anyway (had kidney stones and she said I was doing it for attention. Never got glasses until after high school despite poor performance in eye exams because she was convinced I was "faking it"). My sis-in-law is on Facebook all the time and is a gossip and I was afraid when I changed my pronouns because she would be sure to blab about it.

    Ugh.

    Man, the closet is nice and comfy.
     
  10. morrison85

    morrison85 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 13, 2005
    That sounds really stressful. some families..
    I don't like tight things around my chests.. but I see if i can stand a sports bra (and my size is hard to find . lol)
     
  11. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    It is interesting we were discussing this with students in our Colonial History(roughly 1500-1763)class just yesterday about gender roles and how they have, based on the best evidence we have, shifted from that era to today.
    For instance, kids wore clothing that could best be described as gender-neutral. Now this was largely out of necessity or utility because the children could pass on their clothing to their brothers and sisters or the labor jobs on farms were similar regardless of the person's sex, but it was there nonetheless.
    Interesting that we moved towards more gender strict clothing over time and now are moving, I don't want to say back to gender-neutral, but still less strict cultural roles and the accompanying clothing.
     
  12. duende

    duende Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2006
    the nerdification of everything marches relentlessly on!
     
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    This could go either here or in the Feminism thread but I'm leaving it here. It's in relation to the North Carolina HB 2, and is spot-on.

    Transgender women are not who I need "protection" from.

    Not in the name of my "protection"
     
  14. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Not everyone who has had a surgery has been able to change one's legal gender, and not everyone needs a surgery. While I feel bad for those who are the targets of this discriminatory law, I've heard that the police don't know how to enforce this. It's based on ridiculous paranoia. The more trans women and trans men people meet, the more comfortable the population will be with us.
     
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  15. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Of course they can enforce it. We all either carry our birth certificates with us everywhere we go or we drop our pants on front of bathroom cops.

    I always pee on their shoes after doing the latter, but hey...
     
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  16. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Legit question: I had a reporter interview me, but were I to describe it I don't know whether the reporter was a drag queen, a transvestite, or a transgender person. What's the best thing to "assume" in that scenario, when describing it? (I chose "drag queen") since I had gotten the vibe of "gay man, but dressing like a woman?"
     
  17. Luigi

    Luigi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Well, first of all, definitely never use "it".

    Second of all, just say "they" if you're not sure. Anything more specific is really none of your business, and speculating about it isn't helping anyone.
     
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  18. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001

    I'm not speculating to the reporter. :p I'm recounting the story as a "this happened to me today" story, and I like to describe details. If I even knew who the reporter was, that'd be even better (but I don't).
     
  19. Luigi

    Luigi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Well, that's okay that you don't. It seems to me that they were obviously presenting female, so it's okay to refer to them as such, unless they correct you themselves.

    Otherwise, if you're unsure, it's okay to simply use gender neutral pronouns like "they" and "you". That should be non-offensive.
     
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  20. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    US could benefit from the UK system:

    Regardless of what mental health capacity you're in, any signs of gender "uncomfortable" - you're sent to a gender therapist. It's not as draconian as it sounds. Majority of public services have guidelines of managing an individual gender transition.

    UK govt recently said the transgender community is the final area that needs to be freed from discrimination. And we have a conservative Prime Minister in the UK.
     
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  21. Boba Nekhbet

    Boba Nekhbet Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2014
    In terms of specifically defining their identity, you don't really need to. If they want you to know, and if it matters, they'll tell you. Other than that I think Luigi hits on a good point. Go by how they're presenting. If a person is wearing makeup and a dress or other feminine signifiers, it's probably safe to just assume "she" is right, but always be ready to change if you're corrected.

    If a person presents as androgynous or you just really can't tell, (I met a "Ricky"/"Ricki" at a party once whose gender I never learned and could not deduce. Which I assumed they were trying for specifically), talk around it as much as you can, use "you" or their proper name. Some people will be offended by "they."

    It really shouldn't be that complicated, honestly. Just think to yourself "don't be an ***hole!"
     
  22. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Everyone understands I'm using "it" to describe the scenario, and not a person... right? I use these things to describe how awesome NYC is... :p

    PS - Dani knows I'm always an ***hole anyways.
     
  23. morrison85

    morrison85 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 13, 2005
    Theres the "informed consent" guideline, but no German doctors would give a **** about that, they have still 40 year old antiquitated views.
     
  24. Trip

    Trip Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2003
    ShaneP i saw someone speculate somewhere once that the nonbinary gender identity phenomenon was linked to the whole personal branding thing millennials are encouraged to do in this social-media-driven late-capitalist dystopia of ours. at the time i figured he was just being a smug ***hole but the more snowflakey doofuses i see like that Vice lady the more i wonder if maybe he wasn't on to something. nothing like a set of bespoke pronouns to make ur brand stand out i guess!*

    DanielUK given what ive heard about trans healthcare in the uk i'll stick with america's patchy ad-hoc status quo tbh

    dp4m "some kinda tranny"

    * to be clear what im talking about above is obvs distinct from trans & other gnc ppl who use nonbinary identities and pronouns to cope with stuff, that's a totally different thing
     
  25. morrison85

    morrison85 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 13, 2005