[Trek] [Nemesis] Bits and pieces.

Okay, the majority of you probably think the film is terrible. I however, do not, and have a couple of questions to put out there.

1) Dr. Soong gets a mention, but Lore does not. I've always been disappointed by this. If they felt confident enough to drop in a reference to one fairly obscure television reference, why not another? When B-4 is discovered, wouldn't the crew's experiences with Lore be a definite issue? I would've taken a note from someone that Lore was safely locked away somewhere in pieces, as this would at least have provided a bit of closure to Lore's story (I believe 'Descent' does not detail what happened to Lore after he was dismantled - and neither does 'Generations'). Plus wouldn't a mention of Lore simply deepen Data's disappointment that B-4 is yet another imperfect creation? His search for a brother in kind remains a vain one.

2) The deleted scene on the DVD where the new First Officer receives his 'induction' from Riker. I'm torn over whether this should've been included on the film itself. Does the scene represent something that is too detached from the plot of the film, or, because the film is intended as a send off for the TNG crew, do we deserve a bit more of a goodbye than Picard striding down a corridor smiling to himself? My inclination is to say the scene should've been included.

 

Lore's dead. Data dismantled him.

 

When I first heard the title for this movie, I remember thinking that they were finally going to bring Q into the movies; especially since the indication was that this would be the last of the Next Generation movies.

I came to this conclusion for several reasons. . .

--Q was in the first episode of The Next Generation

--Q introduced them to the Borg (possibly as a warning of the danger to come)

--That danger had been dealt with in First Contact so they didn't need to explore that area again.

--Q was in the last TV episode of The Next Generation which still left on a cliffhanger with him almost answering Piccard's question.

--The title alone, Star Trek: Nemesis, made me think that we were going to get to see Piccard's actual nemesis from the show; that is, Q.


Last, but not least.


--This was an even numbered movie in the series so something spectacular was going to happen.

 

I agree with this pretty much entirely. Nemesis is equal to First Contact in my opinion. And First Contact is at least as good as ST2 or 6. Most underrated ST movie, by far. And Insurrection's ending pulls through pretty well, but the rest of the movie is more like a mediocre TNG episode from season 2.

There was an episode in season 7 (I believe) where Data meets his "mom" and she mentioned I think three other versions of Data that were made before Lore. This is one of those. So this does have some sort of tie in with the TNG series.

 

Data seemed pretty intent on making sure he was never reactivated-- I mean, they left him in the middle of outer ****ing space and he still came back. No, Lore was probably melted down or incinerated or something.

 

Well I'd like to know either way. And fact is, the reticence of Trek to reveal Lore's ultimate fate means they haven't consigned him to history just yet.

 

The TNG movies are over. He's not coming back; "Descent" was meant to be his last appearance.

 

So why not drop a teensy bit of closure into Nemesis? It was the ideal opportunity.

 

There was closure. Data shooting and deactivating him; "I... love... you... brother."; Data mentioning that Lore was dismantled. It's everything short of him falling into an open volcano. Plus, without his emotion chip, he wouldn't be Lore anymore (hehehe... that rhymes).

 

Lore was discovered all neatly packed away in his 'box'. I expect that's the condition he currently resides in. Many things could happen. I agree they won't... but upon the discovery of B-4 in Nemesis, I think a mention of Lore:

"Lore?"

"No Captain, Lore was de-activated on stardate XXXXX. Never-the-less, we should be cautious."

...would have been great.

Remember B-4's head springs into life without warning, and given that his very presence on the planet is a trap (although they don't know it at the time), it could have been Lore.

Infact, would Nemesis not have benefitted so much if it had been Lore? The themes of the movie would still have survived. Data and Lore are brothers, and have an established relationship far beyond that of Data and B-4 - one became one thing, and one became the other. Plus a Lore stripped of his emotion chip would be an interesting beast.

 

If "Descent" hadn't ended with Lore's "death," it probably would've been Lore. He just wouldn't be evil without the emotion chip; he'd be a more primitive version of what Data was in TNG.

 

De-activation doesn't equate to death.

He would still have his memories and accumulated experience.

 

I'll end by saying that B-4 would've been just as cheesy and stupid if it were Lore. Considering that it was a sideplot anyway, it wouldn't have reduced the mediocrity and the poor-man's-Wrath-of-Kahn feeling of Nemesis.

 

I think it would've enhanced the film. And would have given the writers the chance to not have to focus so much on the Picard / Shinzon thing - there are some scenes between the two that drag on far too much. You can't directly replace B-4 with Lore. Lore would've needed to be integrated into the plot more. A slightly different film.

I just wanted to hear about Lore, and I don't think there'll ever be a better opportunity than Nemesis.

Also B-4 was in no way cheesy and stupid.

 

That's why I wish to God they would make the plot of the next film TNG related. To close it out. Nemesis kinda left us hanging a bit. Then go on with their stupid prequel idea that will tank and the fans hate.

 

If they do make one final TNG film, then they need to bring Q into it since he was such an important part of the series. As stated above, he was in the first and last episodes for goodness sake. Even though I knew, ahead of time, that he wouldn't, I kept expecting him to pop-out at the end of Nemesis showing that he was somehow behind what was happening.

 

I don't think Nemesis is terrible. I liked it, and it has the best soundtrack, after Generations and both Horner scores.

Yeah, I was a bit annoyed about the absence of a Lore mention. I guess they wanted to keep the movie as simple as possible without confusing casual audiences.