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Senate U.S. is 89% energy independent... has broken its addiction to oil(?)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 15, 2014.

  1. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2014-america-shakes-off-oil-addiction/

    We're producing more oil, but we're also consuming a lot less, with demand flat or declining. Gas prices are down. Cars are more fuel efficient. Public transit use is rising, and renewable energy use continues to skyrocket.

    The United States seems to have broken its addiction to oil, or at least be on the fast-track towards that goal.
     
  2. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Natural gas is conspicuously not mentioned. I wouldn't worry, though. It's not as bad as oil and domestic supply will last centuries.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  3. Hank Hill

    Hank Hill Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2013
  4. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    This is one area where I don't mind us pursuing a more mercantilist/self-sufficiency policy. I just hope we continue to work with Canada and other friends with our energy policy. And by friends I don't mean the Saudis.
     
    Hank Hill likes this.
  5. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    There are positives though Even. The US has put a significant amount of solar energy back into the grid, which should be commended.
     
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  6. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Was there some technological breakthrough that allowed cars to become more fuel efficient just as the Obama Administration set the new standards, or did we always have the ability to make fuel efficient cars and simply chose not to do so beforehand?
     
  7. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Title gore.
     
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  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001

    Define "we"?
     
  9. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    We as in American carmakers, I guess.
     
  10. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    In the 90's Clinton raised fuel standards. We even had the electric car(Saturn EV-1 I think it was called). But things went backwards with this drive towards huge SUVs in the 00s.

    There are also stories about the Big Three buying up innovative fuel efficiency technology from inventors and then sitting on it for years. I don't know how credible the stories are though. Never looked into it.
     
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  11. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    The things people come up with. Next you'll tell me that GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil conspired to buy up trolley lines and demolish them in order to make people more dependent on cars.
     
  12. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    So how come the Bush Administration didn't raise fuel standards? Even a Republican president ought to prioritize reducing America's dependence on Middle Eastern oil above their free market zeal or whatever ties they had to Big Oil.
     
  13. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    LOL! You know about that! That is actually real as you obviously know.

    Alpha-Red I think the Bush administration was hell-bent on reversing some things Clinton did because they were more beholden to traditional energy interests as well as just having a different philosophy and set of beliefs.

    An aside to this topic: Russia is really hurting due to the drop in oil prices. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, Putin does if his economy continues to decline.
     
  14. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Republicans were pushing to drill more domestically rather than regulate fuel efficiency. Something something free market.
     
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  15. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    True. More fuel to feed those SUVs.
     
  16. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Russian speakers in Saudi Arabia need protecting by vacationing soldiers who got lost.
     
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  17. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    It seems like the US has broken its dependence, but also pissed off OPEC to the point they're doing a death spiral with the oil prices—which is great in the short term, but long term if they keep tanking oil prices then they're really just cutting their own nose off. I've seen some analysis, but the fracking boom is already making it cheap enough that even with the plunging oil price, it won't kill off production like OPEC hopes. But glad we've righted the ship in energy indepdence although, to use the drug analogy, we seem to have become the dealer. So it's less, 'We got ourselves clean,' and more, 'We stopped using enough to think rationally and stumbled upon a stash we could sell.'
     
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  18. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001

    Bush did raise fuel standards. The left predictably didn't give him credit (or enough credit) because of all of the bad he had done until that point.
     
  19. Lazy Storm Trooper

    Lazy Storm Trooper Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Here's to a future were we have electric or hydrogen powered cars and solar or wind as our main source of power.

    A guy can dream can't he.
     
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  20. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Isn't hydrogen electricity a pipe dream?
     
  21. Lord Chazza

    Lord Chazza Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2013
    No I don't think so. Honda have produced a working hydrogen cell powered car - the FCX-Clarity. Of course, it's a chicken and egg scenario in terms of infrastructure but the technology itself works fine.
     
  22. JediSmuggler

    JediSmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 1999
    Plus, fracking has probably done a lot to aid in the domestic energy situation as well.
     
  23. Lord Chazza

    Lord Chazza Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Yeah, at the cost of leaching extra methane into the atmosphere and (potentially) proprietary mixes of goodness knows what sort of chemicals into the water table. For some reason, the UK is hell bent on going down this road as well...
     
  24. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    What I learned about energy prices as a peak oil doomer is that energy commodity prices are cyclical like agricultural commodity prices. The prices of corn and wheat bounce up and down in part because growers plant based on a previous season's prices. Prices are high. Growers plant more corn. Prices drop. That's part of the picture. With energy, there's a similar mechanism at work. The major difference is that the periods of the cycles are much longer. Oil producers can't simply plant more oil fields on a whim. An oil field takes decades to produce even though maybe the fracking cycle is shorter than that of developing underwater oil. So the oil supply we're getting now is the result of the record high energy prices we saw before and soon after the great recession - the fruit of decisions that were made nearly a decade ago.

    That's the supply side. High oil prices a decade ago sparked a record level of drilling worldwide and pushed the Saudis and other old oil producers to go after extremely expensive secondary and tertiary drilling (enhanced oil recovery) and fracking. So the supply boomlet is coming online now.

    But that supply boomlet is now feeding into a somewhat stagnant U.S. economy and a struggling European economy. So a supply boomlet has now run into a U.S. and European demand slump. Consequently, the price of oil is crashing, prompting yet another currency crisis in Russia, and providing inflation relief to a U.S. economy that doesn't need any inflation relief.

    What this will likely mean is the decline of the fracking boom. Oil producers will have to start responding to today's oil prices, and so will make decisions that will have a profound effect on the supply of oil 10 years from now. Fracking is an expensive way to get at oil, so fracking businesses will start shutting down as the result of being unable to turn a profit. Supply growth will begin to decline. And 5 or 6 years from now we will have another supply crisis and record oil prices.

    Also, if you look at price graphs, this is about the time of year that gas prices start to rebound as refineries start changing their refining mix and building new inventory.

    My guess is that the price of oil will bottom out this year or next year at the latest and will begin to rise again to record high levels. Asian demand will continue to pressure supplies, and if the European economy rebounds, that will build demand. Also, if Americans respond to low gas prices by buying gas guzzlers again and driving more miles, that will again put pressure on global supplies.

    In general, however, U.S. demand is no longer the driving factor of supplier decision making. We are taking a back seat to China as they become the world's largest energy consumer. The ascendance of the Chinese economy represents a hard medium term floor for oil prices, so we're not going to see a complete collapse to late 90s oil prices at any rate.
     
  25. yankee8255

    yankee8255 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    FTFY