Lit Unfinished Plots, Missing Links and the Storytelling Tapestry in New Canon - an Ongoing Compilation

crossposted from headcanon topic because it fits our earlier theme of Sifo Dyas:


Headcanon: Sifo Dyas Masterplan for the worst case scenario was far more complex than merely ordering a clone army...

In secret he made copies of Jedi lore and hid it far away in a refuge he was building together with his apprentice. The clone army was only one of several insurances as worst case scenario to help the Jedi and Republic. His more detailed plan was to ensure the orders survival via lore stashes as well as to make sure someone would find them. Sifo would connect with other likeminded Jedi that believed in prophecy and vision, among them QuiGon Jinn. It was him who pointed Qui Gon to Dagobah where Qui Gon started his enlightment journey finding the Force Priestesses and Shamans of the Whills that thaught him how to Forceghost which he later showed Yoda post mortem.

That also is why Dooku believed and told Obi Wan in AOTC that Qui Gon would have joined him. Because Sifo contacted Dooku for the money but also Qui Gon and other likeminded Jedi for other duties. Though Qui Gon would never have joined Dooku. Also Yoda Dark Rendevouz and ROTS novelisations Dooku characterisations make more sense that way: Dooku thought of himself as good and wanted to create a new Jedi Order for himself, was promised this once the war was won and ended by Palpatine even! Is Dookus new Jedi Order the one based on Sifo's lore stashes?

Maybe it was Sifo's vision and contact to Dooku that lead Dooku to investigate the rising dark side and make contact with Sidious finally. Maybe indirectly it was Sifos fault that Dooku fell to the dark side trying to conquer it from within (as Luke tried in Dark Empire)? Sifos vision fulfilled itself. The army he created for defense became the agressor and the one that ended the Jedi. The friend he sent to find a threat became the threat.

 

Fun fact: That's me asking Matt the question, I wanted to settle the debate but ended up being proven wrong anyway
But I'll admit it, I was wrong
Now I'm all sorts of confused tho, because interviews from the time state that the Sith ordering the clones was what happened (The old PH interview where he says that the person who ordered the army is in AOTC for example). But it seems that has now been changed so Sifo-Dyas actually did order the army and was then killed so Dooku could take over the project. That just makes me wonder what Palpatine's plan was before this Sifo-Dyas thing came up or did they manipulate him into that line of thought like in the Plagueis novel?

I do think that last part is the most likely one, they manipulated him into it, killed him and then Dooku took over the project under the name of Tyranus.

 

Legends had the Sith influence Sifo via Plagueis novel like Sidious already influenced Dooku back then too and many others. So indirectly they did order it as you said via their puppet.


But now you bring it up, Palpatines original plan is another topic I would want to know more about indeed. Or Plagueis plan before Palpatine took over! Lets take look at TPM:

We know that as of TPM's the plan was to use the Trade Federation to threaten Naboo so he could become Chancellor via a vote for no confidence in Valorum. That much came to pass, but different than he expected. Originally, he and the Neimoidians wanted Amidala to sign a document, not her escaping the planet with Jedi help. The queens signature would obviously legitimize the TDF takeover somehow.

He wanted to start a war controlling both sides. But for that he needed factions, armies and sentiment close to escalation. None of which existed back during TPM.

So if he intended the occupation to last longer and Naboo not be freed by TPMs end, what if the same scenario happened again and again on other worlds? Corporations holding planets hostage to protest taxation laws and other government decisions, legally even if regents signed documents? No government force, not even judicals big enough to oppose them. The Republic would in the public mind veer towards a rule by the corporations and rich, leading many to protest and call for arms. A military creation act would be drafted and alarm the megacorporations to arm themselves further too. With the threat of a Republic military intervention at hand, corporations would probably look past rivalries an form an Alliance to thwart the mutual threat of Republic intervention. The Separatist Alliance is born, just not too separation bound yet. Tensions high, war was on the horizon finally.

We know Palpatine had a multipronged approach and broke the rule of 2 where it suited him. He trained Maul but at the sime time corrupted Dooku and toyed with Sifo Dyas. Maybe Sifo and Dooku both tried to find and contact the hidden Sith.. infiltrate them. Both succeeded but Sidious made them force a terrible choice, he'll only accept the one who will be able to kill the other. Naturally Dooku won... or Sifo lost on purpose trusting his friend to stay true to their plan? Yikes!

Sidious then could place chesspiece Dooku on the board. As a Jedi he is trusted, as a rich nobleman and ruler he has many following his lead. He unites everybody unhappy with Republic proceedings into a Separatist Movement that would soon merge with the Corporate Separatist Alliance joining Forces.

Meanwhile, Maul who would not have died on Naboo, is an assassin and shadow warrior. As in Legends, he was tasked with taking out any force large enough to interfer with the plans. Be it corporate heads and boards to be replaced with more willing candidates, or crime lords and crime syndicates that he took out or decimated into disarray so they were out of the picture until reorganized again.

With Dooku controling Separatist politics, Sidious in the senate and Maul taking control of the Underworld, all would be in place for hell to break loose. But there was one other: Sifo Dyas. A Jedi Council member through which he at least in part controled some Jedi.

The original plan fell apart because the Neimoidians were unable to kill Qui Gon and Obi Wan in TPM. The Queen thus escaped Naboo, never signing a treaty. On Coruscant Palpatine tried to salvage the plan though by having her call for the vote of no confidence. That part at least went through. But their return to Naboo and freeing it was what he intended to stop. First by gently proposing its safer if she stays with him, which she denied, then by sending Maul to sabotage their fight for freedom. And as his interest in young Anakin grew, he wanted to see what his role in this was, how powerful he truly was, which he proofed with the battle of Naboo and his skills in space. Even with Naboo freed, the incursion is a precedence to other worlds fate. His plan was still on. Maul's "death" only delayed some Underworld cleansings as Dooku was promoted to full apprentice and took on extra duties.

 

Another nugget I want to know more about: The Whills and their role in the story. We know they keep journals and watch history through their intermediaries. They have shamans or Force priestesses.

My take:

Sifo Dyas sent Qui Gon to Dagobah, a place full of life and the Force that helps with visions. Qui Gon was interested in vision and prophecy and had asked Sifo about it I am sure, the expert on the topic. Dagobah was in the Jedi archives until Dooku deleted it alongside Kamino and other places as per Legends.

Wookieepedia: After the death of Sifo-Dyas, Dooku successfully erased Kamino, Dromund, Dagobah, and thirty-five other star systems from the Jedi Archives, despite no longer being a Jedi himself.

There Qui Gon had a Force-ful ride akin to what Yoda experienced later on during the TCW, when Qui Gon's Ghostvoice guided him to the same place to start a journey where Yoda would meet Force Priestesses. But both experienced different rides! Yoda met female Priestesses that all were aspects of one being and had to face his shadow, his inner dark side that he externalised by denying it. He needed to learn to accept it as part of the balance to win. That was Yodas hubris and flaw he overcame there.

Qui Gon's though is a different one specific to Qui Gon Jinn. We know he met a shaman of the whills, which sounds male. And we know he began to learn how to manifest after death from him. Maybe Force Priestesses and Shaman are the same being, appearing different to each who meets them. Much akin to the Mortis family that may change species, gender or looks etc. depending on who met them as per Book of Sith. (We need illustrations showing them in other forms, like Father being Mother, a dark Daughter and a light Brother? I wonder if Ahsoka saw them as Togruta?).

So, the Whills gave Yoda acceptance, Qui Gon a method to return after death. What did they give Sifo and Dooku who both knew the planet and must have been there? Sifo knew what it could do sending someone there. Dooku must have too or else he would not have erased it from Jedi Archives alongside other worlds.

Sidenote1: To my headcanon the Forcepriestess (split into separate personae and reunited like Indiana Jones 4 dimensional aliens) is the Mother to the Mortis family, and maybe Lothals animals are their pets.

The Mortis family directly affected Anakin, Ahsoka and Obi Wan, three other influential players of the sagas game for balance.

As per Rebels murals we know the Force Priestesses/Shamans are connected to the Mortis family and Lothals indigenious force attuned wildlife. Bendu's mysterious ways too may be related to the Whills and given he can take different forms, animalistic or weatherbased etc.

All major forcesensitive players of the Saga had been touched by a Whill, as I call them, at some point prior in their life. Sifo Dyas, Dooku, Qui Gon, Yoda, Obi Wan, Anakin, Ahsoka, Kanan, Ezra.

Only ones whose experiences with them we are missing so far are: Dooku and Sifo from the above list, as well as Luke, Leia, Rey, Ben, etc. from later times. Luke already is connected to Dagobah at least and went on a sojourn for lore and learning discovering the prime temple on Ach-To. It's reasoneable he had some experience, what did he ask/see in the mirror cave when he found it long before Rey? And given Forcepowers of Luke, Rey and Ben in the Sequel trilogy grew exponentially and boarder on the nothing is impossible anymore, using their full potential, maybe they need no more nudges in person by Whills but are the product of a long lineage of Whill influences on the key players down the line.


PS: Of all worlds.. if one returns in Episode IX, I wish it is Dagobah and its dark side cave-temple grown over by trees. Much to learn about it, we still have!

Sidenote2: Setdesign and making of as well as concept art for TESB show the dark side cave on Dagobah is a temple that has been overgrown by trees and nature. We clearly see stairs leading down and doors angular like in other temples on other worlds. Something ancient. Whatever other history happened here, whoever died here or tainted the place, I want to know more about the original temple.

 

The Crymorah Syndicate might be one to add to the list of story threads waiting to be tugged upon. Name-dropped early and often in new canon material, the Crymorah was set up as a major player but thus far has yet to be given a substantial role. Similar to the Droid Gotra, though that group has managed to show up in a few stories in the last couple years.

 

I've assumed that the various Syndicates, for which some groundwork was laid in TCW too, were primed to be explored in depth had SOLO performed better and ushered in a whole lot more Dark Times underworld material. I'm guessing that will just happens a little bit more slowly, in dribs and drabs in side material, or remain the stuff of background references for a while.

 

Disney + man I'm putting money on it ;p

 

Regarding the Whills, I too would like to know more about them. Depends whether the Disney canon will do something new with it or go for Lucas’s notes on it being like the midichlorians themselves. Regardless, I would perhaps like to see the Legends Celestial concept return and tied to the Whill. Like say the Whills can like ‘evolve’ into Celestials. And that the Mortis family are these Celestials... so in a sense, the Mortis family have ties to the Whills. Like my head canon is that.

On the other side of things... The Five Syndicates have kind of peaked my interest. Like I kind of became more interested in the criminal underworld because of that. Like their respective rankings, their hierarchy and spheres of influence.

 

Lets take a look back at the original by now abandoned plan for the SW tapestry:

Boba Fett - The first spinoff film was supposed to be his before director troubles lead to Rogue One advancing to the spot. A Fett movie was still planned afterwards but postponed several times until after Solo sadly Spinoffs were put on hold indefinitely in favor of Disney# shows. Much was probably recycled for the Mandalorian tv show and a new character alongside newly added content.

I don't know if leaked rumors and storyideas for the Fett movie back then were true or madeup, or testleaked to see audience reaction. I just know I did not like and even hate the leaks that told about replacing Fett with a new character taking on his armor and name. I have nothing against Fett becoming hereditary like the Mask of Zorro. But I'd not do that in a setting before ROTJ. I know fans complained that Prequel Fett is not OT Fett, I disagree. Maybe the rumors were just out of context.

Now, after ROTJ though, with Fett "dead", why not? Aftermath books already showed his armor surviving and picked up by a stranger. Mandalorian is set to take place in part on Tatooine. And the very concept of a Mandalorian Bounty Hunter setting out to add to his armor and name is very Fett-like. Will he be a Fett in all but name? Will he be a Fett in name too, earning the name? Will he actually be BOBA Fett that survived the Sarlacc? Played by a new actor, not Temura Morrison?

Technically the new Mandalorian character could even be Boba Fett's son, if Fett had a kid early on with someone. But this is not a Legends repeat. So I doubt that angle. We also still are missing a Daniel Logan Boba Fett in Solo 2, which sadly never happened and is a loose end that has to happen in some form some time. #MakeSolo2happen! Or my favourite pet theory: Mace Windu survived his window fall in ROTS and was healed in the underworld planning to fight back (Cross Shaft and Nick Fury, give him an eyepatch and some Pulp Fiction snark and Samuel Jackson can return for the role in a spinoff!) his goal was to get back at the Emperor and Vader but in his way was a grown up Boba Fett taking revenge for his father Jango's beheading! I'd throw in the abandoned/cancelled game 1313 storyline of Fetts rise.. culminating in the final battle against Mace Windu in the underworld!

But with post-Episode IX, storyfocus will shift probably away from the Dark Times decade we enjoyed now towards post ROTJ expansion and some post Sequel stories. So how much will still be done in that era remains to be seen.

When where and how another Filoni animated show continues to show us the inuniverse fate of the Mandalorians and Mandalore itself is also still in the open. Will it be told alongside Sabine Wrens continued tales? Or new characters tied to it? Canons stance on Fett being no Mandalorian but wearing their armor I dislike, but who knows how Fett can still become a Mandalorian. Maybe, after his death on Tatooine, born anew and wearing fresh armor he can take a new name and become a Mandalorian before taking back his old name? Time an TV will tell!

 

Another piece of the tapestry:

Luke's Journey from ROTJ till his exile on Ach-To:

As in Legends he collected lore and tried to learn from as many people and cultures as possible. He travelled with Lor San Tekka (and maybe Savi and others, maybe even Snoke under cover). He kept R2 by his side and visited Force cults and ancient sites, be it the Emperors storehouses and observatories like on the world in Battlefront where he found a compass and more or be it other places like in the Legends of Luke Skywalker book. Technically Luke literally took the Tour de Force Sojourn Jacen Solo had in Legends post NJO. Even later when he opened his academy and trained others alongside Ben Solo did he travel and seek the First Temple, and more. Some of the arcane powers and sites he discovered with Ben together probably and we see in TFA Ben learned some powers too not seen before (like Blaster bolt freezing). So Ben Solo takes the place of Ben Skywalker from Legends in joining Luke's sojourn (Legends Luke had in FOTJ retracing Jacen Solo's steps).

The burning questions are many:

How many Jedi did he train. Who were they? Which of them survived the massacre and left with Ben?

Canon has introduced several Force sensitive people that could be among Luke's canon first class:
-Rowan Freemaker, Forcebuilder
-Jacen Syndulla, son of Kanan and Hera if he inherited the Force
-Del Meeko of Inferno Squad, did he briefly train with Luke? Not strong but attuned to the Force as he was? (think Tionne style of Legends) He died after the massacre at Kylos hand revealing Lor San Tekka may know Lukes whereabouts
-Ezra Bridher and Ahsoka Tano (very unlikely but have they met Luke during travels? I guess briefly yes for a fateful encounter with impact for later eras
-
-...

more potential candidates from new canon? lets list them!

R2D2 knows and saw a lot. And after Endor and Palpatines supposed death, did he finally reveal it to Luke or still keep secrets? Did he ever lead Luke to places like Mortis, the Yoda Arc Force World, and others?

So far we do not know a lot of the missing era between trilogies. We see TLJ Luke as his ROTJ self which is true, as he still likes to throw sabers and not fight. Yet he is a different man as well and we have yet to learn why! A whole era of stories will shine a different light and interpretation on the Sequels.

Prepare for Luke to walk the paths of Dooku, Sifo Dyas, Qui Gon, Yoda, Obi Wan and many more before him as he prepares for the rebirth of the Jedi. He may face the treecave/buried temple on Dagobah again and without fear or lightsaber to have a different experience in there that starts his journey as he finally is ready to learn more as Yoda once was and before him Qui Gon. The Luke we know grows beyong worldly issues and politics as he sees the microcosm of the Force firsthand on Mortis and the Forceworld, as he travels to Moraband and Malachor and even enters the World between Worlds briefly when he meets its new guardians Ezra and Ahsoka. All the many lifes of those great people that came before him culminate in this one man, Luke Skywalker as he unifies their experiences and lessons and learns them all to go one step further.

We know Luke learns of the prophecies as books already confirmed he considered Ben another Choosen One in the lineage. Whatever future conflict to resolve he sensed or had a vision about before Ben's fall clearly informed his actions. And it also was known to Kylo who considers himself a choosen one and gave him pride and arrogance.

Luke was looking for the source, the Prime Temple, the origin to complete his picture his travels had painted of the history and flaws of the Jedi and Sith conflict and orders. And the Sith, Palpatine had sensed a source of the dark side deep in the Unknown Regions, an origin of darkness. It rhymes, the origin of light, the origin of darkness, both feared and searched for, both in the Unknown Regions. And as I claim: BOTH THE SAME! Ach-To!

It only makes sense, Yoda arc in TCW told us the darkness is a part of us and our shadow. So it only makes sense that the origin of the dark side is the origin of the light side as well, the Prime Temple, where both orders were born when the first Forceusers tried to not accept their dark side and thus broadcast it out to materialise and fight back.

So, if Palpatine had been fearing/searching Ach-To as well... and Luke found it first (!) maybe knowing that it is the source of both given how he acted towards Rey appearing and her curiosity with the dark side nexus. Luke not only exiled himself, he guarded the very location no enemy of the Jedi ever should find.

And given his previous epic adventures and new powers displayed in TLJ, Force projection across the galaxy, etc. he must have a hell of an adventure before settling down to learn all these from impressive people.

 

The player character of the Star Wars Uprising mobile game - canonically a yet-unnamed male human - was Force-sensitive and had obtained a lightsaber during his adventures in the first year post-ROTJ. Worth adding to the list perhaps?

 

Does the FO actually know the location of Ach-To, or just that Luke was there?

 

Neither. In TLJ Kylo only saw some surroundings of Rey but still does not know where the planet is or what it is named. He never had the map but just ripped an image from Rey's mind in TFA and that was before R2 completed the map after Rey's rescue. So Kylo only knows the broad strokes of where in Unknown Regions it is, but that still covers sectors with thousands of worlds potentially.

 

Though Snoke gets Luke's location from Rey's mind in TLJ; considering she's actually been there, and Snoke says they'll bomb the island from orbit, he's pulled the actual location, whereas Kylo couldn't.

 

Since Snoke died without having a chance to pass that infomation on, Ach-To is still a Resistance secret by the end of TLJ - maybe as a potential place to regroup

 

Yup, I'd assume so -- although who knows, the scene cuts while Snoke actually gets the information, so he could potentially have said the location out loud or given it to his hyperspace navigators before he died.

 

His navigators are a mysterious bunch and we never know when or why they left indeed! I prefer to think he took the secret to his grave, but who knows.

 

Another thought, Snoke is inspired in part at least by the Wizard of Oz. His Throne room, the looking glas tool, etc. everything. We even have a curtain fall in TLJ. But there was nobody behind the curtain so to speak. Unless the mysterious navigators were the puppeteers running the Snoke Show and he was a puppet only after all! They left.. and of course he fell no longer important because they were gone to more important business and reporting back to the true master... hmmm?

 

The Ancient way of Spacetravel:

Before the invention of the hyperdrive, spacetravel was slow and the unconnected galaxy had to use sleeper ships and other slow methods of travel. When Purgills natural ability to use hyperspace was discovered alongside similiar spacefaring creatures and their abilities. One might "ride" them through hyperspace but that is rather not appliable to directing where they go. Unless you are a Force sensitive attuned to communication with animals. Born was a new profession of Force Astrogators that would bond purgills and ships for a crude first version of hyperspace travel.

Naturally attuned to avoid mass shadows these animals did not need sensors. When the people though tried to use hyperspace without purgill assistance via hyperspace cannons accellerating and decellerating ships through hyperspace, only direct paths with no mass shadows could be utilized. Thus trips remained rather short or had to readjust course quite often. To stay on course longer, Jedi Astrogation was still required to navigate the mass shadow labyrinthean ways of hyperspace until sensor tech caught up to replace Force based astrogation entierly.

An even more ancient way to connect the worlds was a lost technology of ancient aliens, hyperspace wormholes used in Hypergates. This Stargate network was closed or broke down long before the ascent of hyperspace travel via ships.

Now, hyperlanes had been established around the former natural hyperchannels and paths that were relatively free of mass shadows. These maintained hyperlanes are artificially cleared of any obstacles and entirely new hyperlanes are forged in the same way whereas lesser lanes still are the old ever shifting routes that are more dangerous to take.
In the Unknown Regions though, with no central authority like BOSS, Holonet or government, travel is an entirely different matter. Hyperlanes that exist naturally are not regularily checked and updated for maps. Travel is far more dangerous and competing minor and major influences in the Region, like Chiss, Ssi Ruuvi and many others keep their own maps close and rarely if ever share data.
Therefore, even in modern times, aside for few routes, travel is deadly and requires Jedi Astrogation for optimal results. Natural scouts blazing paths is always a risky business, one for which the former Jedi Astrogation/Scout Corps was better suited.

So Snokes Navigators, aliens from the Unknown Regions know their routes and are maybe Force sensitive? Natural guides through the maze of the Unknown. It is no wonder the First Order needed them upon their arrival and survival in the Unknown Regions.

But back to the ancient travel: Most ancient maps, like those depicting the Mortis Gods on the Lothal Jedi Temple, show not the twisting and curving web of hyperlanes we know today in the GFFA. Instead, ancient maps tend to be geocentric in that they use a fixed point of origin and radiating outward are straight lines to other worlds visible in the night sky. These straight routes are the ancient line of sight travel methods that the hypercannons also used and which Purgills etc. may also use. The Light never lies, if you can see it, the path is clear! But even the Lothal Jedi Temple map employed several layers or wheels around the geocentric fixpoint. Depending on the hand gesture and position, the map changes and rotates clearing new different paths whereas others distort and become cut off. This may signify that planetary rotation, systems movement of other planets as well as the general movement of the galaxy around its core open up and close constantly new direct paths which depending on time and cycles can be calculated approximately for direct line of sight travel.
These maps also could be symbolic for the World between Worlds and such portals connecting planets in ancient times as a means of godly travel without messing with time. Yet their astrogation implications also are interesting. Especially so, given artifacts of ancient times, like Luke's Ach-To Force Compass, employ a similiar galaxy map configuration. A true Force Compass for Forceuser Astrogation?

On travelling the ancient paths:

Another artifact whose origin and function elude us still is Ahsoka (the White)'s staff topped with a circle. It always reminded me of Indiana Jones Staff in the first movie, which upon placement in the right spot at the right time reveals the path to the Ark of the Covenant (which also exists in SW thx to TCW). We already saw in TCW how sunlight channelled through lenses into an ancient mechanism can have interesting effects like ripping souls from bodies as happened to Mother Talzin. What will her staff do? Where will it lead Ahsoka and Sabine? Ahsoka was on a sojourn removed from the war for years after Ezra saved her. I suspect she searched many temples and ancient sites for more intel about the World between Worlds and ancient times, and at the same time guarded it by preventing Palpatines cronies and their digs to get any further with their research and experiments. Given she only now returns when the Emperor is no more a thread, she must need Sabines help with some Art as Ezra had on Lothal's temple. And given both search for Ezra, she may have found a clue or trail leading to him (and Thrawn?). Before, she may have had another meet with Yoda perhaps before Luke went to him. Given she knew Yoda's hiding hole, and given her experience with the WBW, maybe Yoda told her about his own sojourn to the Force Priestess and sent Ahsoka on a similiar journey starting on Dagobah as he and Qui Gon had? Or did she meet Obi Wan on Tatooine briefly and he told her about Mortis and helped her talk to the spirit of Qui Gon Jinn? Then again maybe she simply talked to Bendu, the one in the Middle if he calmed down from his lightning storm self. For some weird reason I could see Ahsoka and Sabine go to Mustafar even after ROTJ to take a closer look at Vader's castle, legacy and the portal within!

 

And whatever happened to Moff Tavira?

 

Ahsoka is a swirling vortex of unfinished/untold stories all by herself. Her yet-unseen story arcs from TCW (a couple of which we'll get to experience soon), what happened to her in the Sith temple on Malachor, how and when she left the planet, her identity as "Ahsoka the White," her adventures with Sabine in search of Ezra, and her overall place in the post-Empire galaxy - so much potential for really interesting stuff when the time comes.

 

Project Harvester. When it was put to an end... only Zare's sister was there and the only other force sensitive captured was Eeth Koth's daughter perhaps decades before that. What exactly were the results of this program?

 

Well, considering that Del Rey has Dooku: Jedi Lost at the start of their reading order, one could assume that he probably was.

 

This thread highlights why I love the canon so much, there are so many different stories that can and need to be told, and seeing how it all links together is beautiful. I applaud Disney for their efforts, this can't be an easy job.