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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

"UNLIMITED POWER!" and so did Palpatine really have it?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by WormieSaber, Feb 2, 2007.

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  1. Master_Shaitan

    Master_Shaitan Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 31, 2004
    I think it just comes down to Vader being a machine. His arms and legs are robotic so they have no connection to the force. This makes him physically weaker. His midi count doesnt go down. Thats to do with midi's per cell. But the fact is, Vader is more machine than man. He doesn't have control over himself as a Jedi with all his limbs would have. He's a cripple.

    I don't think size has anything to do with it. Size matters not - at least, thats what I tell myself every morning in the shower.[face_laugh] The fact is, Vader's connection to the force is decreased as he is not "all man" anymore.
     
  2. arbed

    arbed Jedi Knight star 5

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    Feb 24, 2004
  3. SLASHAXL

    SLASHAXL Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 25, 2005
    I still dont think any sith had the ability to create life or save others from death. There is simply nothing apart from palpatines words to back this up. Plus the sith are generally self centered and think inwards only of themselves. And why would Sidious kill his Master before learning such a power.

    Palpatine was the Dark lord of the sith, who wanted the most powerful force user in the galaxy ( Anakin )as his apprentice. He needed to find a way to make him turn, knowing that once you start down the dark path its impossible ( or so he thought ) to turn back. So he found what Anakin wanted the most ( to save Padme from certain death )and made up a story to make the darkside a more attractive.

    If we had seen Sidious attempting to find the key to this power id say ok, but this was not the case. Instead all we get is "go to the Jedi temple and destroy the remaining Jedi, only then will you be strong enough with the dark side to save the one you love".
     
  4. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    No, Lucas is the one who has final say on if it is his true face or damage. The make-up artist will just say whatever.


    Size does not matter. Wholeness does. If you cut off all of Yoda's limbs, he'd be less than whole the same way Vader was. It'd be the same way if you cut off the limbs of the Wookiee Jedi Lowbacca from the eu. Having a whole, complete body without the physical damage that Anakin endured, is what determines potential level. Sure, there are significant cells left over. But these cells are not nearly as many when Anakin had four limbs. Vader post Mustafar can become very powerful, but he is not nearly the same as pre Mustafar.

    First, wrong thread. ;) Second, Sidious would kill Plagueis because the man just told him that he created a life. Which translates as "I just created your replacement, you're fired." Palpatine was self-centered in wanting to live.
     
  5. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    I know that, I was just curious about what they thought about the character, since it can be argued that their opinion was in some way reflected in the film.

    That does not affect the midichlorian count, which is still the same in the remaining cells. It can at least be said that his level limitation is an issue of wholeness and not based on midi count.
     
  6. Emperor_Billy_Bob

    Emperor_Billy_Bob Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Aug 9, 2000
    I always thought it was political power he was referring to.
     
  7. LordVader66

    LordVader66 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 30, 2005
    This is bizzare. Why would Palpatine be refering to political power? The majority of Palpatine's political power was gained right under the Jedi's collective nose much earlier than the events of RotS. The Jedi were alreadly concerned about the effects of Palpatine's dictator-like powers. When Palpatine is blasting Mace with lightning, he wants to leave Mace with a final lesson, a lasting message: that power of the dark side offers unlimited power. Power that grants unlimited possibilites and victories. In essence, noting that the Jedi have been using the wrong side of the Force.
     
  8. Emperor_Billy_Bob

    Emperor_Billy_Bob Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Aug 9, 2000
    Well I thought he kind of saw Mace's death as the last bar to his ascending to the rank of Emperor. With the Jedi removed, there was no threat.
     
  9. wannasee

    wannasee Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 24, 2007
    I agree with you. I refer you to the first page of this thread, where I made the same remark, and debated the point for a while, until I got tired.

    Nobody in the thread holds our opinion, but we are right. ;)
     
  10. LordVader66

    LordVader66 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 30, 2005
    In ANH, Vader says, "don't be too proud of this technogical terror you've contructed, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force." Palpatine shared the same attitude. Galatic conquest is insignificant compared the power of the Force. Why do you think Palpatine handed over day to day operations of the Empire to his close circle of advisors? He wanted to study the dark side all the time. Above all else, the dark side consumes Palpatine, it's what he values the most. He's not going to boast about him unlimited power as a politician. That's a fact the Jedi have known for too long. He wants to boast about something that Mace understands only at the end, the dark side is the side of the Force.
     
  11. Emperor_Billy_Bob

    Emperor_Billy_Bob Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Aug 9, 2000
    Yes, but Sith Masters have always had dark side strength. The only thing that changed with Mace's death was that now Palpatine was going to rule the Empire politically.
     
  12. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    I agree with this. He's boasting his victory over Mace after dropping the act that he was weak. He was showing off his power of the force, not celebrating political victory; I'm somewhat baffled by the idea of the latter. Take the quote in the larger context of what was said: "I can't hold on any longer... Oh don't kill me please [Mace gets his hand cut off and Sidious begins to shock him] ...POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!"

    He's springing back to life and boasting about his strength.
     
  13. Chi_of_Force

    Chi_of_Force Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Feb 9, 2007
    "POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!!!"


    I think Palpatine is referring to the Dark Side and the power one can obtain by walking the dark side path. Remember, he's still "selling" to Anakin at this point, and Anakin's had his head filled for years with stories of power and how he will be the most powerful Jedi (or Force user). And as Palpatine readies to seal the deal, he links the unlimited power of the dark side to saving Padme, as opposed to the limited power of the Jedi, who tell Anakin to forget about her.

    This is how Anakin turns.

    Palpatine had a lot of power, but not unlimited. However, he's stating to Anakin, using Mace as the object lesson, that one can obtain far more power with the Dark Side than without.
     
  14. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    QFT. It's not about the Empire. It's about the dark side of the Force.
     
  15. Master_Shaitan

    Master_Shaitan Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 31, 2004
    ...furthermore, this is when the balance is completely destroyed - Anakin has turned, the Dark Side is stronger than ever, The Jedi Order has fallen. Sidious now has "unlimited power" to tap into.

    Or so he thinks.
     
  16. Chi_of_Force

    Chi_of_Force Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Feb 9, 2007
    Indeed. Ironic perhaps that the UNLIMITED POWER Palpatine refers to is a turned Anakin, the Chosen One gone Darkside. For a power vampire like Sidious, that's gotta be sweeeet.
     
  17. wannasee

    wannasee Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 24, 2007
    CEO mentality. Is he supposed to deal with every squabble in the galaxy personally? He couldn't micro-manage. He had to delegate. The galaxy is vast.
     
  18. SLASHAXL

    SLASHAXL Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 25, 2005
    First, wrong thread. ;) Second, Sidious would kill Plagueis because the man just told him that he created a life. Which translates as "I just created your replacement, you're fired." Palpatine was self-centered in wanting to live.
    [/quote]

    Wrong thread? We are discussing UNLIMITED POWER and did palpatine really have it. More to the point, we are trying to figure out exactly what he meant when he said UNLIMITED POWER. Was he referring to the ability to create life or Unlimited reserves of power the Darkside supplies a user with.

    And finally, it is the way of the sith for the master to find a stronger apprentice and the current apprentice to try and kill the master. But even if Plagueis had created life it would still take years before this person would become a danger to Sidious.

     
  19. Rossa83

    Rossa83 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 8, 2005
    I just don't see how Palpatine could think himself all-powerful. Plageus has to be sleeping before Palpatine could kill him. Hence, it is doubtful that Palpatine could ever defeat him in a one on one duel.
    Palpatine boasts to Yoda how Vader will become more powerful than either of them - thus proclaiming that he sees himself on terms with Yoda.
    He desire Anakin because he thinks of him as the ultimate power - "I foresee you will become more powerful than any Jedi - even master Yoda" - why would he need Anakin if he already was the ultimate power?
     
  20. Darth_Davi

    Darth_Davi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 29, 2005
    through brute strength or subterfuge, Plageius is still just as dead. Perhaps Palpatine murdered Plageius in his sleep because he wanted Plageius to die not even knowing that he had been undone...To show how little Plageius actually understood of the Dark Side. Any Sith Lord can simply betray his master and confront him out in the open...its more fun to do it secretly. It shows Sidious was capable of deviousness to a whole new level. I have no problems with Palpatine murdering his master in his sleep rather than a direct confrontation, I think assassinating him quietly fits in with the Dark Side rather nicely.
     
  21. Rossa83

    Rossa83 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 8, 2005
    Sure, I have no problems with him doing that either. It shows him as the devious being he was. However, when Palpatine asseerts Plageus as SOOO powerful, and thus having to kill him in his sleep, that tells me that Sideous' powers were not that physically strong to be called unlimited power!
     
  22. Darth_Davi

    Darth_Davi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 29, 2005
    I don't remember Palpatine saying he HAD to kill Plageius in his sleep, just that he did. (assuming that Plageius was indeed his own master) There is a difference between choosing to kill Plageius in his sleep and having to kill him in his sleep. I don't recall Palpatine ever saying that he couldn't have killed Plageius a different way, just that he chose to kill him sleeping.
     
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Wrong thread? We are discussing UNLIMITED POWER and did palpatine really have it. More to the point, we are trying to figure out exactly what he meant when he said UNLIMITED POWER. Was he referring to the ability to create life or Unlimited reserves of power the Darkside supplies a user with. [/quote]

    It's kinda obvious that Palpatine is talking about unlimited power that comes from being able to conquer your foes. Not create life. Mace wouldn't get the punchline, if you will if it was about creating life. He would get that Palpatine is stronger than him and thus the dark side wins over the Jedi.

    Well, there's this thing about Palpatine being killed before the training begins. Plagueis would kill Sidious and then start over with the child. This way they wouldn't have to fight over the boy. Sidious just beat him to the punch by killing him before then.


    At the time. This is now, years later when the Force has gone out of balance and Sidious has gained in power through his being the Dark Lord. The longer a Jedi/Sith live, the stronger and more knowledgable they become. By ROTS, Palpatine had surpassed where he was under Plagueis.
     
  24. Rossa83

    Rossa83 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 8, 2005
    Speculation Sinister! First off: We don't know how much more powerful Plageus was - we don't know how much Palpatine grew in power - the only thing we know is that he had to kill him in his sleep - or at least feared to do otherwise.
    Moreover, do you honestly mean to say that Palpatine showed Mace that he was more powerful? Mace bested him, and Palpatine needed help from Anakin to defeat him - he then killed an unarmed man... o_O
     
  25. Master_Shaitan

    Master_Shaitan Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 31, 2004
    I'd say Sidious killed Plaguies in his sleep because he could. Why face off in a duel, which could go either way as duels are never 100% predictable, when you can kill someone in their sleep? Sith have no honour. They will do whatever they can to get more power.

    Its clear to me that the "cheating death" thing is a lie. That's impossible for a Sith - both saving themselves or others. As for the creating life, it was indeed a possibility and Plagueis may have well have known about it. But that doesn't make him incredibly powerful - just wise I guess. I think Sidious referred to him as being this super powerful person to try and hook Anakin, once again saying the Dark Side is the path to greater power (which it is, physically at least).

    When Sidious says "unlimited power!", for me it comes down to a lot of things and really he is just stating that. He is showing his ultimate power with his lightning and showing a will of his strength. Secondly, Anakin, the chosen one, has turned to the dark side and with that destroying the balance and also giving Sidious a lot more power. Thirdly, the Jedi are defeated, now Sidious believes he has "control over the Force" and thus has unlimited power to tap into. And on top of all that, he has won. He has got everything he wanted.

    The thing is though, this is unlimited power from Sidious POV and to be honest, he is mistaken also. Some Jedi will survive. He will never fully get control of the galaxy. His physical power will not be enough to save him. And come the end, his "power source" (Vader) will be unreachable. Basically, as Yoda warns, his faith in the dark side and his apprentice is misplaced. It will lead to his undoing - that is inevitable.
     
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