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Amph Unnessesary nudity and lingerie images in comic books

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by JediOverlord, Mar 18, 2007.

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  1. Darth_Omega

    Darth_Omega Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    And I never noticed it :(
     
  2. Darth_Daver

    Darth_Daver Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2005

    Yeah, the ridiculously-endowed women get talked about a lot, while the fact that basically all male super-heros have bodybuilder physiques is just accepted.
    In both cases, it's the artists portraying an ideal. Obviously still aimed mostly at male readers, showing women as guys want them to look and men as the readers wish they looked themselves.
     
  3. FlareStorm

    FlareStorm Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2000
    I noticed this with Civil War. Ms Marvel and She-Hulk gratuitous rear-end shots. And just the rear end. The rest of the anatomy is out of panel.

    I love a nicely formed green butt as much as the next person, but its getting kinda obvious that its in there just because sex sells.

    Look at Supergirl's skirt for gawds sake. There's a line between sexy and downright unbelievability.
     
  4. moosemousse

    moosemousse CR Emeritus: FF-UK South star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Men can work up such physiques though, it'll take a lot of time and effort but it's not impossible. If you're a woman with small breasts or hips then there's not a lot you can do about it.

    Spiderman doesn't seem to bulging with muscles, but he is well toned, and iirc most of Batman's bulk in Batman Begins was his armour.
     
  5. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Most of Batman's bulk in the comics is muscle mass. Likewise with Superman.

    That's one nice thing about DC-their mains are all shapes and sizes. It's a good representation of a society. You have the Joker and Riddle for skinny tall guys, that black woman from No Man's Land representing the more short and squat segment of society, Supes and Bats for the gymrats.. :p


    And as a previous poster said: It's representing an ideal. Whether or not a person can actually be an ideal is hardly the comic's fault.


     
  6. Darth_Sabith

    Darth_Sabith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Face it th few unatractive, fat, or even normal looking super heroes aren't cool. Everyone wants the Ideals. Most women complain about there bodies. Even those who have excellent shapes complain about them.
    Also granted there a many top heavy female characters. There are many normal to small top sided females in the comic world. Jublee, shadow cat, boomboom, dazeler, Jean grey(at times), Mystic(at times), Raven, x-23, rachel summers, batgirl,spoiler, and a few others.
     
  7. GavinStrife

    GavinStrife Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Meh, you don't like it, don't buy it. I don't mind it- its going to get them some readers, and at least everyone isn't cookie-cutter.
     
  8. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2001

    DAMMIT FRANK CHO
     
  9. chiss_man

    chiss_man Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Why must Ultron be a chick now? WHY????
     
  10. NYCitygurl

    NYCitygurl Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2002
    This is the third time I've said something about not posting inapropriate images. It it keeps up, I'm going to lock the thread.
     
  11. Darth_Sabith

    Darth_Sabith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2006
    WOW she shut everyone up lol...
     
  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Black woman in "No Man's Land"? I haven't read the comic version of the story, but you aren't refering to Renee Montoya?
     
  13. Raven

    Raven Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 1998
    I'm pretty sure Amanda Waller is the person being referenced.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Waller
     
  14. Raven

    Raven Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 1998
    Bump.
     
  15. DantheJedi

    DantheJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2009
    I had this topic unlocked to talk about something I've found out recently about Marvel's newest issue of Dark Avengers. Here is a [link=http://comics.ign.com/articles/105/1054346p1.html]link[/link] showing what I want to talk about.

    In short: When do cheesecake and fanservice in comics go too far, and is more disturbing than titillating?

    In the comic above, doesn't it seem a little much that a guy like the Molecule Man would use his powers to basically strip a female SHIELD agent down to her underwear? Also, don't you get the feeling that from reading that, it was something the artist added on his own? Just saying.
     
  16. Darth-Lando

    Darth-Lando Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2002
    If you read the full comic Molecule Man also strips down Norman Osborn so he's completely nude. She actually winds up with MORE clothes on than the man. And it get's mentioned in dialog.
     
  17. DantheJedi

    DantheJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Okay, but you gotta admit, reading that preview on its own, it looks a bit tacky.
     
  18. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Actually, that sequence fits for a title like Dark Avengers which is basically focused on the themes of power and corruption.

    Also, the woman concerned is no innocent victim - she's quite willingly assisting a known murderer and psychotic, under the delusion that doing so is 'efficient'.

    Not that Bendis hasn't been known for doing controversial stories though, the sequence in New Avengers with the Hood and Tigra was quite infamous, with reason. Nor has there been much in the way of follow-up on that.
     
  19. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    I don't know about the rest of you, but I think one of the most naked characters in mainstream Marvel and DC comies is Wolverine. Seems he was naked through all of the early 90s. As with all male characters there was always a convenient black shadow over the crotch, which we all know never happens in any kind of lighting.

    At least Wolverine helped me be comfortable with my profuse body hair! :D

    Also, remember that comics have always been a place for subtle sexuality and some things are just overt and always have been. There's the whole bondage and fetish element present in superhero comics since the 30s. I mean , c'mon, Joe Schuster was doing bondage and fetish adult comics at the same time he was doing Superman.
     
  20. Darth-Lando

    Darth-Lando Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2002
    I never quite understood why The Hood beating up Tigra was so horrible. Yes she was "defenseless" (as defenseless as a superhero gets anyways) and in her own home but was it extra bad just because she was female? I re-read the issue just now and nothing overtly awful happens. Hood ambushes Tigra in her home and beats her up a little bit. He threatens her and her mother. Then he beats her some more. Sure it's a brutal attack but it's quick and fast. The entire exchange takes just three pages. I always felt it was a case of people looking for a hidden sexist meaning where there was none.
     
  21. chiss_man

    chiss_man Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2002
    I fully agree; if it had been a male hero, say Clint Barton or someone else, it wouldn't have been an issue at all. It just seemed shocking because we are predisposed to seeing a woman being attacked as a truly vile and disgusting thing (which it is, I'm not saying the opposite).
     
  22. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    re: the Tigra sequence

    It's notable that in NA34, Wolverine basically gets his nuts shot up by the Hood but it isn't deemed as big a deal as what happens to Tigra in NA35 for two reasons:

    1. Wolverine has a healing factor.
    2. The handling is different.

    The second difference is the more critical one: Namely Tigra is supposedly a trained member of The Initiative and possesses superhuman abilities, she isn't that helpless but becomes so in this story. Nor is there a follow-up to it, the Hood basically gets away with beating her up, dominating her in the process totally. Wolverine at least got to stab the Hood in the jewels in revenge many issues later and that's expected because of the character he is.

    On its own, isolated, it wouldn't be a big deal but it doesn't exist in an isolated context, beat-up-the-woman-and-allow-her-a-small-and-empty-but-symbolic-revenge is a hackneyed concept at best. Put it this way: The phrase "women in refrigerators" wasn't invented out of nowhere, this sort of story has been done a great many times. Why would Bendis get criticism over it? Because a big part of his success is down to not treading familar ground, he was noticed for doing things that were different.

    In a way part of why this doesn't work may well be due to it being done in NA and not Daredevil, which Bendis was far more suited to. If the Hood had hit one of Daredevil's allies, he'd have gotten a beating and wouldn't have known what hit him. But Daredevil was unusual in that the hero had as much, even greater at times, latitude than the villains. That cushion doesn't exist on NA or indeed any other superhero title because pro-active heroes have never really worked.
     
  23. BartSimpson-SithLord

    BartSimpson-SithLord Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    I don't know why you're all saying there hasn't been any follow up to it. Part of the reason why Tigra joined with the New Warriors to create the Avengers Resistance over in "Avengers: The Initiative"; it allowed her the free reign to go after The Hood's lackeys the same way they went after her. For several issues she was out on "hunts" where she's been brutally beating his gang. Her main target is leading up to taking down The Hood.
     
  24. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Ah thanks, I'm following Avengers: Initiative in SC TPB and so am only up to vol 4. That sounds very encouraging since Gage is writing it.
     
  25. Duragizer

    Duragizer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2009
    All I can say is that Fredric Wertham is starting to look more credible all the time.
     
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