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Discussions Unpopular Expanded Universe Opinions

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Irredeemable Fanboy, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Yeah.

    I mean, if you were going to end the Jedi Sith conflict-in a definitive “true end of the saga, stage curtains fall” sort of way-this was a super unsatisfying way to go about it.

    Thinking on that subject…you know I wonder how people would write a definitive end to the Jedi-Sith conflict, if they had the time to actually focus on that as a goal beyond “legends de canonized-let’s wrap this up!”

    Given the jedi Sith dance was intentionally or not-the main story of the EU, if an actual serious full hearted ending of said conflict was written, how would everyone go about doing it?

    Me? I honestly don’t know. It would need to be grand though.
     
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  2. Intergalactic Lawman

    Intergalactic Lawman Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2020
    I mean...that's a you problem my friend....just don't engage with it then and let the people who do enjoy it enjoy it in peace.
     
  3. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    That's another unpopular opinion....Sith after Palpatine just come off as strange to me.
     
  4. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I think it works, the chosen one business aside. Which just doesn’t really jive well with the EU, or really a lot of the films either.

    The Sith after Palpatine can be interpreted too as pretenders, not “real” Sith. Lumiya was never formally initiated so she’s at best a broken link, at worst a pretender without a legitimate standing in the banite line, and krayt can be read as basically leading a dark Jedi cult that calls itself Sith.

    The lost tribe are a carry over from another age, a relic, a fossil. A group that survived due to simply being isolated and irrelevant. In short, they are not worthy of the mantle of their marooned ancestors.

    It’s a bit hand wavey, but you can make the argument none of the Sith after Palpatine were “real” Sith in a genuine philosophical sense or in terms of continuity(that is passed down tradition and teaching).
     
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  5. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    It's not just the Chosen One business (Which I think could have worked perhaps in a Lucas 7-9 which probably would have dealt with it more) but just...IDK

    Sith after Palpatine just feel lackluster......It's not even a "Real" vs "Not Real" Sith bloodline thing so much as it's....Palpatine was just so the top of the food chain and everyone else feels...IDK....Afterthought.
     
  6. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    would say they are an anti climax? If palpatine is the biggest baddest Sith, then these others shouldn’t measure up.

    I like Sith but that was an issue they ran into.
     
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  7. The Emotional Jedi

    The Emotional Jedi Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 18, 2021
    In my head-canon, Lumiya, Caedus, the Lost Tribe and Kreyt are basically non-existent, so I don't even have this kind of problems. Lol. The Chosen One Prophecy Is 100% true and Anakin Is the Chosen One. No one will ever change my mind about that.
     
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  8. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Unless your George Lucas who was gonna change it to Leia in his Sequel Trilogy.
     
  9. The Emotional Jedi

    The Emotional Jedi Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 18, 2021
    I don’t approve almost everything of what George did and was planning to do after 2008. So that’s not my problem either.
     
  10. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2017
    that’s a misinterpretation of his comments on Leia’s role in the sequel trilogy
     
  11. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    To me Lucas´s ST plans for Leia kind of sound like what was implied with Allana. Basically the Force chosen to lead everyone to paradise over the rainbow... best politician ever, borderline force goddess.. And people say Rey is over the top in her abilities....

    Generally don´t like the power creep in SW. I think Force Users should have stayed grounded. Or at least ultimate glass canons. I mean with one lightsaber you just can´t block a dozen blaster bolts in the same second...
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2022
  12. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2016
    I like George but even if he created Darth Plagueis and Darth Bane the EU versions made the characters better than what George was going to give us
     
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  13. The Emotional Jedi

    The Emotional Jedi Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 18, 2021
    The more I think about it, the more I realize that SWTOR has made the Old Republic Era timeline too convoluted. I don’t think it’s a bad video game and I think it has a good story. But at the same time, the more I think about it and the more I realize that the story is too convoluted, and that through its retcons the video game has made the KOTOR games extremely convoluted too. Also, to be honest, the more I think about it and the more I realize that maybe even KOTOR II is a bit messy.

    Basically, the more I think about it, the more I realize that everything should have stopped with the first KOTOR (including the prequel comics, of course), and that after the first KOTOR the authors should have jumped straight to the New Sith Wars.
     
  14. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    KOTOR2 is a bad game, a bad Star Wars story. It takes Vaders line about the force being more powerful than Death Star in the most boring and literal way.
     
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  15. The Emotional Jedi

    The Emotional Jedi Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 18, 2021
    Yeah,. It’s a very depressed, dark, sad game, and it’s a useless sequel to a story that was already over. There was absolutely no need to create a second video game, because Revan's story was already over with a happy ending. Instead of creating a second video game, the authors should have focused more on exploring the past and what happened before the video game itself. They partially did this with the KOTOR comics and in my opinion they did a very good job so far, but they could have done a lot more. I mean, I shouldn’t need KOTOR II to explain Revan’s personality in depth through Kreia's endless and boring monologues. I don’t need a sequel to explain to me what a prequel should explain.
     
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  16. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    KOTOR 2 is a great game and great story and i don't understand this line of thinking at all.
     
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  17. The Emotional Jedi

    The Emotional Jedi Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 18, 2021
    You know, there's something called "different opinion"...
     
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  18. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Well it's bad game because it's boring. The opening planet is very dull, just combat. The 'mystery' isn't much and then is only a mystery once. Every character is there to push the same view. The force is bad and if you use it's bad, is something the game want's to push but it doesn't understand what the force is, how it works or how people interact with it. The force isn't a like the Abrahamic God, which the game (through Kreia) likes to push. The force is not a seperate thing from people it is a part of them.

    The view the game pushes "jedi and sith are the same and seen as such by the galaxy" makes 0 sense. It is a view of someone who is extremely ignorant of how religious difference can affect people. People in the galaxy WOULD know EVERY difference between Jedi and Sith, because if they get it wrong they will die.

    Nilus is someone taking Vader's line and applying it literally. Vader could have meant that the force can subvert things or act in subtle ways, or it can let you eat planets. Nilus is also not an interesting villain, it has no personality, it is just a storm. Also the exile doesn't have to work to beat Nilus, they just can because of something that happened before the game.

    The jedi get shafted and the galaxy feels like it is set in the OT. For all that KOTOR took inspiration from the OT it felt like a different place, this feels like the OT time and it's duller for it.

    The game does not understand the Star Wars galaxy. It makes up stuff about Star Wars then argues against them.
     
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  19. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Well...just can't agree with that.

    And if does misunderstand the Star Wars Galaxy....Then i don't know what does.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2022
  20. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    You don't know what does understand Star Wars? Traitor, Revenge of the Sith novel, SWTOR, KOTOR1, Tales of the Jedi, KOTOR comics, Dark Empire, Darth Plagueis, Jedi academy trilogy, Dark Lord Rise of Darth Vader. All have a better understanding than KOTOR2s shallow dark, nihilistic, wanna be lovecraft dead end take.
     
  21. The Emotional Jedi

    The Emotional Jedi Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 18, 2021
    No, thanks, alongside the post-YJK stuff as a whole.

    I prefer the film's portrayal of Anakin and Padmé's relationship, but there is a lot of good extra information in the novel. So I don't accept the novel as a whole, but only the things I like.

    Yes, but actually not. Maybe a re-written Revan-free/less convoluted version...

    YES!

    Ugh... No. Maybe a re-written version, and Anakin's Force ghost defeats Palpatine at the end.

    YES!
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2022
  22. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    I just want to briefly mention that Kreia`s writer Chris Avelone actually considers her to be in the wrong with her worldview. He just offered it as a way to look at the universe from a person IU, not the gosphel both fans and detractors of the game turned it into.
     
  23. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    As one that have not played the game I cant really comment on this, but I have heard from a friend that one of the problems he had with Kreia is that the game more or less treat her as being in the right and you can't really talk back to her.
     
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  24. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    I would argue the endgame where you kill her is possibly just a giant Shut up Moment. And TBF to the game, it was badly rushed due to Lucasfilm flipflopping on the release date (first they wanted it for christmas 2004, then decided to give it some more time to expand, then hastly rushed it back to christmas 2004), so maybe more dialogue with Kreia would have come if Lucasfilm hadn`t screwed it over.

    That said I do agree on this problem. I myself hate in the Witcher 3 how everyone just forgets after the prologue how horrible Nilfgaard is and you can never call anyone out on their sudden change in charater. Same Tris who does a complete 180 on Phillipa and the lodge...

    I still like KOTOR2 for the same reason I at least respect TLJ hight above the rest of the ST. Because it actually had the courge to try something different, which, unpopular opinion of the day, SW has and had faw too little of.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2022
  25. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Eh you should read NJO, stop there mind. It gets dark but I think it is worth it at the end.

    Ok I prefer the books. It adds to the tragedy that Padme never thought he would hurt her.

    He is minor for the first part. But I think the game gets what Star Wars is and how it works.

    yes that is the only change I would make but otherwise I think it gets Star Wars.


    I have always heard he used her to voice his own views on the force. And in the game you can't call her out or tell her she is wrong.
    Except then she goes on to look into the future and tell you stuff. The game still treats her as someone how is right and can be trusted to be correct.

    I highly doubt the relase date issue is what hurt the stuff with Kreia. We have everything at the start of the game (her conversation with Atton when you get to Telos, where he just agrees with her nonsense), shows what they wanted and it wasn't to have people disagree with her.

    I don't think either of them are different. Tales of the Jedi was different, the KOTOR comics were different, New Jedi Order was different. These are just the same story but "oh the good guys are really as bad as the bad guys, even though we have no evidence of this, oooo", edgy nonsense. Star Wars, in the OT (which both stories ape) is not set up for both sidism. The PT ironically is yet TCW absolutely refused to even come near that.