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Saga Unpopular Star Wars opinions!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Feelicks, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    The thousand year peace should outweigh ten years of being fooled by an evil Sith and twenty years of nonexistence. Until Kylo Ren came along, Luke had revived the Jedi. The Jedi were not in the wrong otherwise.

    About attachments, none of the Jedi are immune to feelings. Not even Yoda. But he is not consumed by them and he does not act based on them primarily.


    After the revival of the order, Luke made an out of character mistake that cost everything. Even that shouldn’t outweigh the good that many other Jedi did including Luke.
     
    DBPirate, wobbits, TK-2814 and 5 others like this.
  2. Supreme Leader Kylo Ren

    Supreme Leader Kylo Ren Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2019
    Luke almost killing Ben Solo in The Last Jedi is out-of-character. The slow, deliberate motion of activating his lightsaber isn't a "brief moment of pure instinct" despite the way he describes it.
     
  3. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    I totally agree. And it shouldn’t have been an instinct anyway. The Jedi do not strike down defenseless beings. It’s why Luke hesitated to strike down the Emperor despite the victory it would spell.
     
  4. Supreme Leader Kylo Ren

    Supreme Leader Kylo Ren Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2019
    Agreed, Return of the Jedi destroys any attempted justification for the blatant OoC of that film.
     
  5. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Disney planets are so bland across all media. Rogue One, out of the ST, Mando, and Solo is the only film that had planets that looked visually distinct for the most part.
     
  6. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Yeah, I'm still waiting on my planet WHERE APES EVOLVE FROM MEN, GOTTA BE AN ANSWER.
     
  7. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Given Shiv can shoot lightning from his fingers I don't know if I'd call him a defenseless being. :p
     
  8. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    he's more dangerous without a lightsaber. He's a necromancer.
     
    christophero30 likes this.
  9. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 I Am Speaking in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    That’s why my reaction to “I am unarmed” has always been “LOL no you aren’t.”
     
  10. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    He's trolling Luke the entire scene. It reminds me of LOTR when Gandalf warns them that Saruman's voice is his deadliest weapon after he has been defeated.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  11. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    I agree. Welcome to the Forums.
     
  12. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Except if you're Dooku, then in that case you are. :p
     
  13. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    It's absolutely out of character for Luke. Which is why is perfectly encapsulates Luke's self exile. In that deliberate moment of igniting his saber, Luke realized he failed. He failed himself. Failed as a Jedi, Failed as a hero and legend. And most importantly, failed his sister, his best friend, and his nephew. Luke was never your hero's hero. He wasn't the swoop in a save the galaxy single-handed type hero, and he was never going to be. He tried to live up to his legend, and felt he failed in doing so. If you think back, failure has always been in Luke's development. He failed in the cave. Failed in facing Vader the first time. But he learned from those failures. His hubris after defeating the Emperor and redeeming his father led to him not learning from his future failures.

    Luke didn't hesitate to strike down the Emperor because the Emperor was unarmed. Luke hesitated because in the moment of amputating his father's hand, he knew the dark side was taking over, and if he continued on and struck down the Emperor, he would fall to the dark side. Luke's decision to not strike down the Emperor comes from showing he is not dominated by the dark side, and that no one can convert him, even if it means it'll cost him his life. It had nothing to do with Palps being unarmed.
     
  14. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Supreme Leader Kylo Ren

    Supreme Leader Kylo Ren Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2019
    An out of character moment encapsulating a plot point isn't a good thing like you seem to be implying.

    I'm not seeing the comparison between "the swoop in a save the galaxy single-handed type hero" and Luke almost killing his nephew in his sleep.

    I mean, your paragraph is well written, but there's just no justification for Luke contemplating the murder of Ben. In Return of the Jedi, Palpatine and Vader were constantly antagonizing Luke, and he still saw the good in his father. He refused to fight him, continually pleading with the man who previously had: cut off his hand, tortured his sister, killed his mentor in front of him, blew up a planet, etc.

    Many people bring up the fact that Luke "fell to his rage and fought Darth Vader" but that was after many times trying to get his father back onto the side of good. And, more importantly, it was supposed to be a learning moment for Luke.

    Besides, comparatively, Luke had only known Vader in his worst moments. He trained Ben Solo for a decade-plus.

    So why was Luke so much more understanding and patient with the genocidal monster Vader? Why didn't he attempt to help Ben instead of pulling out his laser sword? It just doesn't line up with George's previous works and the character.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
    Emperor Ferus likes this.
  16. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    I didn't say there was justification for attempting to murder his nephew. Nor did I said Luke's out of character moment was a good thing. But that moment where he went to Ben with that sole intent perfectly sums up the reason why he went into exile.

    Luke's out of character moment was attempting to live up to his legendary status, not going to kill Ben. Going to kill Ben was a byproduct of failing to live up to that legend. That's what I was talking about with Luke was never your hero's hero. It was never in Luke's character to be such, but he tried to live up to it anyway.

    Once he ignited his saber, Luke realized his failure. While Luke had learned from his failures in the past, his hubris made him attempt to live up to something he wasn't. Luke tried to live up to it so much that it blinded him to the notion he was failing to live up to it. The moment he deliberately drew his saber on Ben is the moment Luke realized he failed to live up to the legend that had been thrust upon him.

    I believe Luke was more understanding with Vader because he could feel the good in him growing. He knew there was a chance to convert his father back to the side of good. With Ben, he had never sense anyone as powerful, and as he could sense the growing dark side in Ben, it scared Luke to the point of panic. Luke thought he knew better, and could teach him anyway, but couldn't admit to himself he was in over his head. That's the only reason I can come up with as to why he treated Vader differently than Ben.

    Oh and thanks for the condescension about my well written paragraph.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  17. Supreme Leader Kylo Ren

    Supreme Leader Kylo Ren Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2019
    You mistook my genuine appreciation for how you were able to articulate your viewpoint as condescension.

    Anyway, I disagree with you. Luke going to confront his nephew and potentially console him about his growing darkness isn't "attempting to live up to something he wasn't," it's just genuinely being a good person. If your friend was going through significant struggles and wasn't in a good headspace, of course you'd go talk to him. Especially if you're related. It's a familial matter, his status as a "legend" has nothing to do with it.

    I mean, Luke was arguably a legend after he destroyed the Death Star. It didn't randomly compel him to do OOC things then. Characterizing Luke as someone who's caught up in his own personal triumphs doesn't fit with what is presented in the Original Trilogy. It's the contrived events that take place after he peeks into Ben's mind that are the problem, nothing before then.

    Your final paragraph just doesn't fit with Luke's character and previous actions, almost directly contradicting his relationship with Vader in RotJ. Point blank period, Luke knew as soon as Obi-Wan admitted that Vader was his father that he couldn't fight him. Before he could sense the good in him, before any confrontations after Episode V, the fact that they were related made Luke insistent that he could redeem him.

    Previously, Vader had cut off Luke's hand, blew up Alderaan, tortured Leia, imprisoned Han in carbonite, killed Obi-Wan Kenobi in front of him, etc.

    So it just doesn't make sense for Luke to believe in the genocidal warlord that was Vader, who he'd known for fleeting moments as he'd committed horrendously evil acts, more than the nephew, Ben, who he'd trained for a decade.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
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  18. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.I apparently cannot seem to convey my point in a compelling enough manner to sway your opinion.

    And sorry, my comment about your condescension was intended to be sarcasm. I didn't mean to come off as snarky.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
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  19. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Star Wars was more prestigious with just 3 films! :cool:
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  20. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    It and age old tale that belongs in a museum.:cool:
     
  21. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    It would have been a classic at three, but I love the Prequels, The Old Republic, and Sequels.
     
    Darth_Articulate likes this.
  22. Darth Buzz

    Darth Buzz Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2018
    The big three (or four) having a meet up in the ST was not a missed opportunity. It would have been fan service cringe.
     
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  23. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Not just “would have been”, but “was”. And still is a classic a three, whether you like the others or not


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  24. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Agreed. If there’s any asymmetry to the saga, it’s actually on the ST having more OT characters than the OT having PT characters. Each trilogy is supposed to be about each generation. Let the past die.

    [EDIT] oops! Just realized I double posted. Apologies
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  25. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Luke was a terrible choice to restart the Jedi Order

    Rey, Ashoka, much better lightsiders to do it.
     
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