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Saga Unpopular Star Wars opinions!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Feelicks, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Not sure that we can say that the Jedi fail to maintain the peace when it matters the most. All those thousands of years that came before matter just as much to the beings who lived in those times.

    I wouldn't say that the prior successes fail to matter because of one failure. I wouldn't discount the achievements of ancient Rome just because it eventually fell, for example, so I don't see why I'd do that with the Jedi Order.

    If the Jedi ultimately failed, the Sith and the Empire and the First Order all failed even more so because their period of success is measured in decades rather than millenia. Like we are supposed to believe Jedi are failures because the Sith get to run the galaxy for a few years, but then we are supposed to ignore the fact that would make the Sith even bigger failures since their success is only lasting decades rather than millenia.

    But really I don't know why people bother to argue with me in the unpopular opinion thread. Like it says on the tin that this is the place to post unpopular opinions. That is what I'm doing. Posting my unpopular opinion. I know it is unpopular when I post it. Jumping on me and telling me that it is an unpopular opinion isn't going to change my view. So I don't know why I get push back pretty much every time I post an unpopular opinion here. Like isn't that what this thread is for? Or am I missing something?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    It mattered the most every time they successfully kept the peace. And they did it for a thousand years, which is no small feat.
     
  3. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    the irony is it means all our opinions are unpopular to someone.. i like the ST that's an unpopular opinion to many here .. the people who loved the PT held an unpopular opinion to a great many too.
     
  4. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    All I'm saying is that I post my unpopular Star Wars opinions here when I have the impression that a Star Wars opinion I have goes against the grain or the consensus. I share it here in the hope that someone might find it interesting at least in terms of being a different perspective or maybe even agree with it (which would be cool to find a like-minded person). I don't really post it here in the hope that someone will explain to me for the umpteenth time what the consensus view is because I am already aware of the consensus view, which is why I'm posting in this thread in the first place. [face_peace]
     
  5. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    I think A New Hope is my least favorite Star Wars movie.
     
  6. clone commander bossk

    clone commander bossk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 5, 2019
  7. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    I went over it in my head and I think I like all the others ones more
     
  8. ThisIsTheWay

    ThisIsTheWay Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2019
    While it’s not quite my least favorite (and not sure if it’ll ever fall that low), I have noticed that ANH tends to fall just a little bit further down my list every time I think about them all.
     
  9. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 15, 2012
    still love the first one as much as the last one... as unpopular as saying you think ANH is bottom of pile.. clones for me all day long
     
    clone commander bossk likes this.
  10. Aah Fisto

    Aah Fisto Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 30, 2020
    The ST and Solo are definitely below it for me, but I don’t include those when I watch through the films. ANH is my least favourite out of the ones I watch (I - VI & Rogue One)

    When I’m watching things all the way through I find myself completely emotionally invested and overwhelmed at times from ROTS/ Siege of Mandalore, Rebels and Rogue One that by the time I get to ANH I just think ‘meh’. I still love the film but it just doesn’t grab me anymore like the others
     
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  11. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    ST and Solo are above ANH for me...So when I say ANH is at the bottom...It's at the bottom.
     
  12. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    don't agree but admire you're individual thoughts. Always in the top half for me
     
    Aah Fisto likes this.
  13. TheCloneWarsForever

    TheCloneWarsForever Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2018
    ANH is not my least favorite but it's the one that suffers most from overwatch due to it being around the longest. It's hard to get immersed in it when I know every second by heart. It's also the one I least enjoy watching reactions to, probably because it's the least controversial SW material of all. The PT era stuff swings for the fences and are more divisive as a result, but they're also more fun to talk about.

    Finally, when you add up all the content I rewatch (1-6, TCW, Rebels, Mandalorian) and the upcoming stuff, the main characters of the OT feel strangely fleeting and almost irrelevant. But that's as much an argument against watching things in chronological order than it is against ANH. As an originally standalone movie, and as an introduction, ANH still works fine. That's all it was meant to be.
     
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  14. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    I mean that's what happens when you add the expanded universe into it

    The OT was just a blip compared to the hundreds of stories set in say The Old Republic or the Post Endor era.
     
    ThisIsTheWay and darthfettus2015 like this.
  15. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    ANH is stronger as the continuation of ROTS than as an introduction to Star Wars.
     
  16. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 13, 2014
    Which is why I also added the caveat that you cannot pin the failure of the prequel era Jedi on those who came before them, and the prequel era Jedi do not get to claim the successes of those who came before them. That said, the big failure of the Jedi does tend to tarnish the successes that came before it, to some degree. Gonzaga men's basketball team was 31-0 heading into the championship game, and lost. That one loss when it mattered the most puts a tarnish on the success of 31 straight wins prior.
     
    Fredrik Vallestrand likes this.
  17. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    The Jedi are the Jedi. There's no "prequel era" Jedi. There's no change in beliefs, duties, or methodology. There's no failure on their part. There's only an ever growing greed and corruption within the Republic, something the Sith helped fuel and took advantage of. And once in control of the Republic, they massacred its servants and protectors (aka the Jedi).

    The Republic fell despite the Jedi, not because of them.
     
  18. Huncrweo

    Huncrweo Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2020
    I realise the absurdity of arguing about something in a thread devoted solely to unpopular opinions, but I really don't think that Lucas' intention was to present the Jedi as blameless victims in the fall of the Republic. Yes, they're affected by external factors like Palpatine's manipulation and the Dark Side shrouding their vision, but the Prequels still depict their destruction mainly arising from their own ideologies and actions. After all, the only reason Anakin turns to Palpatine for help with Padmé is because he'll be expelled from the Jedi Order if he goes to them. When he asks Yoda for advice, the response he gets is essentially, "you're not meant to have emotional attachments, don't worry about it." It's no wonder he betrays the Jedi for Palpatine, who actually promises a solution, not to mention the freedom to not have to live a deceitful double life, as he has for years under the Jedi. And let's not forget that The Clone Wars (also a Lucas project) goes to great lengths to stress that the Jedi have strayed incredibly far from their original purpose and become soldiers when their whole ideology was peacekeeping.
     
  19. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Even then ANH is still kinda boring.

    Honestly TFA is a better introduction for Star Wars.
     
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  20. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    I didn't say the Jedi were blameless victims. I said the Jedi weren't complete failures as they are often treated, but actually successes that should be treated as inspirational. The Jedi were able to be a big part of peace and justice being maintained in the Republic for anything between 1,000 to 25,000 years according to the backstory we get in the movies. In real world terms, a thousand years ago would take us back to before the Battle of Hastings, and before the birth of William the Conqueror. Imagine if we had an Order of beings devoted to maintaining peace and justice going back to before the Battle of Hastings and the birth of William the Conqueror through to today. Even if that Order of beings fell tomorrow, I'd still say that Order was a spectacular and inspirational success. And that's if we go for the shorter number implied by the Star Wars movies. If we go with the longer figure implied by Obi-Wan in the OT, twenty-five thousand years ago on planet Earth takes us back to some of our earliest human settlements. So it would be like having an Order of beings devoted to promoting peace and justice that stretches back to our first human settlements through to the modern era. Even if that Order broke apart tomorrow, I still wouldn't hesitate to label it a dazzling success.

    Since I am not inclined to treat an era of 1,000 to 25,000 years as insignificant. That is just a lot of history for me to hand wave at and say doesn't matter especially if I am hand waving it to focus on a much shorter era of less than a hundred years in an arbitrary sort of fashion. Especially if that period of a hundred years in many ways seems to represent a regression and worse era than the 1,000 to 25,000 thousand years I'm ignoring.

    I think the PT more depicts that it is Anakin's choices and Palpatine's evil manipulations that bring about the downfall of the Republic and the Jedi Order. I also think that the downfall of the Republic and Jedi Order are meant to be seen as tragic events we are meant to mourn rather than anything we are supposed to celebrate as an audience, which to me suggests that as an audience we are largely meant to identify with and sympathize with the Jedi and the Republic more than the Sith or the Empire.

    The irony is that Anakin doesn't actually need help saving Padme from dying in childbirth. Indeed, she really only dies in childbirth because of his actions. His deciding that he should go on a murderous rampage at the Jedi Temple (even killing children). Him deciding he should choke her when she is pregnant. I bet if Anakin hadn't chosen to do those things, Padme wouldn't have died when she did. So Anakin's actions and choices bring about Padme's destruction in a very real way.

    It is also worth nothing that Padme never pleads with Anakin in ROTS to save her life. When Anakin shares his nightmare of her dying in childbirth with her, her only question is whether the baby she is carrying survives. Because in that way Padme is a selfless person unlike Anakin who becomes selfishly fixated on his own need to prevent her from dying. Padme pretty consistently throughout the PT expresses that she is not afraid to die. When she is warned that the Trade Federation will kill her if she goes back to Naboo in TPM, she unflinchingly declares that her fate will be the same as her people. When she is about to be taken into the execution arena on Geonosis, she declares that she is not afraid to die, but that she just wants Anakin to know that she loves him before she dies. So, Padme is not a person freaked out by the prospect of her own death, but Anakin is the one who is terrified and haunted by the idea that she might die.

    To me, in the PT Anakin's greatest flaw and problem is that he cannot accept the inevitability of death and loss. The fact of the matter is that Anakin, like everybody else in our world and in a galaxy far, far away, will experience death and loss. The Jedi cannot protect him from the inevitability of this most universal of experiences. So what the Jedi try to do is prepare him for that inevitability of death and loss. They do not offer him false promises of being able to save Padme like Palpatine does. Instead they try to teach Anakin how to accept death and loss when it inevitably occurs in his life.

    Anakin goes to Yoda for advice about premonitions of pain, suffering, and death he is experiencing. Yoda seeks clarity on what those visions are. First, he asks Anakin if those visions relate to him (Anakin) or to someone he knows. Anakin says someone he knows. Yoda then asks if that someone is close to Anakin. Anakin hangs his head and says yes. Yoda gravely cautions Anakin about being careful in interpreting the future (not bad advice since Anakin misinterpreting his nightmare of Padme's death is kind of what ends up killing her and bringing about his own fall to the Dark Side) and that the fear of loss is a path to the Dark Side (which again seems to be a true warning since Anakin's fear of loss does bring him straight to the Dark Side within this same film).

    Anakin then proceeds to disregard Yoda's words, insisting that he won't let his visions become real. At which Yoda counsels him that death is a natural part of life (which I'd again say is true and just an acknowledgement of reality that is often healthy in terms of psychology and spirituality). He also encourages Anakin to turn grief into something more sublime, rejoicing in those around him who transform into the Force. That is very similar to advice that people might get on Earth to celebrate the life of the departed instead of just focusing on negative emotions.

    Yoda does warn Anakin that attachment can lead to possession, which is exactly what happens with Anakin in ROTS with Padme. He becomes possessive of her and ends up Force-choking her. So, again, Yoda's advice isn't bad here, but actually completely on point.

    And if Anakin had taken Yoda's advice about training himself to let go of everything he feared to lose, he wouldn't have fallen to the Dark Side and inflicted so much suffering on the galaxy. He likely would've suffered less himself. It's Anakin fear of loss and inability to effectively deal with that loss that causes so much suffering for himself and the galaxy. That to me is the real tragedy of Anakin's downfall. That he just could not handle the inevitability of that most universal of experiences: death and loss.

    The Jedi don't give Anakin any sort of false hope that he will have the power to make people live forever. Instead, they try to guide him in accepting the truth that, yes, those he cares about will die at some point, and he will have to find a healthy way of dealing with their loss. They also try to warn him about the dangers of being possessive. Dangers that are proven valid by Anakin's subsequent behaviors in ROTS, where he gets so possessive that he Force-chokes his wife.

    Anakin's choice to live a deceitful, double life is his own. He could have chosen to not live a deceitful life by either 1) not marrying Padme or 2) marrying Padme and leaving the Jedi with the explanation that he values being married to Padme more than being a Jedi. The choice to live a deceitful, double life is Anakin's.

    So, no, I don't come away from ROTS or any other Prequel film with the impression that the Jedi were wrong to warn Anakin about the very traits that result in his downfall. I come away with the impression that he probably should've listened to their warnings and spared himself and the galaxy some very terrible suffering.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  21. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Agreed it was kind of in the Jedi's best interests to help Anakin. :p But yeah, it's on Anakin and his choices.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  22. Reepicheep775

    Reepicheep775 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2019
    The politics in the PT aren't boring at all. I mean a Sith Lord is subverting democracy and orchestrating both sides of a war to gain galactic domination. How is this boring? Plus, Ian McDiarmid's performance through it all is classic. :emperor:
     
  23. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Agreed. The politics in the PT is one of the best parts of the PT for me.
     
  24. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 15, 2018
    politics in star wars can be quite good, but the way it is done in TPM is quite boring.
     
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  25. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Can't say I found TPM politics boring even as an eight-year-old seeing it for the first time.

    Some of the Podrace went on too long and got boring, though. Especially when it wasn't on the big screen in theaters. If there was any part of TPM I used to fast forward when my family owned it on VHS, it was the Podrace sequence.