Saga Unpopular Star Wars opinions!

Not sure that we can say that the Jedi fail to maintain the peace when it matters the most. All those thousands of years that came before matter just as much to the beings who lived in those times.

I wouldn't say that the prior successes fail to matter because of one failure. I wouldn't discount the achievements of ancient Rome just because it eventually fell, for example, so I don't see why I'd do that with the Jedi Order.

If the Jedi ultimately failed, the Sith and the Empire and the First Order all failed even more so because their period of success is measured in decades rather than millenia. Like we are supposed to believe Jedi are failures because the Sith get to run the galaxy for a few years, but then we are supposed to ignore the fact that would make the Sith even bigger failures since their success is only lasting decades rather than millenia.

But really I don't know why people bother to argue with me in the unpopular opinion thread. Like it says on the tin that this is the place to post unpopular opinions. That is what I'm doing. Posting my unpopular opinion. I know it is unpopular when I post it. Jumping on me and telling me that it is an unpopular opinion isn't going to change my view. So I don't know why I get push back pretty much every time I post an unpopular opinion here. Like isn't that what this thread is for? Or am I missing something?

 

All I'm saying is that I post my unpopular Star Wars opinions here when I have the impression that a Star Wars opinion I have goes against the grain or the consensus. I share it here in the hope that someone might find it interesting at least in terms of being a different perspective or maybe even agree with it (which would be cool to find a like-minded person). I don't really post it here in the hope that someone will explain to me for the umpteenth time what the consensus view is because I am already aware of the consensus view, which is why I'm posting in this thread in the first place.

 

I didn't say the Jedi were blameless victims. I said the Jedi weren't complete failures as they are often treated, but actually successes that should be treated as inspirational. The Jedi were able to be a big part of peace and justice being maintained in the Republic for anything between 1,000 to 25,000 years according to the backstory we get in the movies. In real world terms, a thousand years ago would take us back to before the Battle of Hastings, and before the birth of William the Conqueror. Imagine if we had an Order of beings devoted to maintaining peace and justice going back to before the Battle of Hastings and the birth of William the Conqueror through to today. Even if that Order of beings fell tomorrow, I'd still say that Order was a spectacular and inspirational success. And that's if we go for the shorter number implied by the Star Wars movies. If we go with the longer figure implied by Obi-Wan in the OT, twenty-five thousand years ago on planet Earth takes us back to some of our earliest human settlements. So it would be like having an Order of beings devoted to promoting peace and justice that stretches back to our first human settlements through to the modern era. Even if that Order broke apart tomorrow, I still wouldn't hesitate to label it a dazzling success.

Since I am not inclined to treat an era of 1,000 to 25,000 years as insignificant. That is just a lot of history for me to hand wave at and say doesn't matter especially if I am hand waving it to focus on a much shorter era of less than a hundred years in an arbitrary sort of fashion. Especially if that period of a hundred years in many ways seems to represent a regression and worse era than the 1,000 to 25,000 thousand years I'm ignoring.

I think the PT more depicts that it is Anakin's choices and Palpatine's evil manipulations that bring about the downfall of the Republic and the Jedi Order. I also think that the downfall of the Republic and Jedi Order are meant to be seen as tragic events we are meant to mourn rather than anything we are supposed to celebrate as an audience, which to me suggests that as an audience we are largely meant to identify with and sympathize with the Jedi and the Republic more than the Sith or the Empire.

The irony is that Anakin doesn't actually need help saving Padme from dying in childbirth. Indeed, she really only dies in childbirth because of his actions. His deciding that he should go on a murderous rampage at the Jedi Temple (even killing children). Him deciding he should choke her when she is pregnant. I bet if Anakin hadn't chosen to do those things, Padme wouldn't have died when she did. So Anakin's actions and choices bring about Padme's destruction in a very real way.

It is also worth nothing that Padme never pleads with Anakin in ROTS to save her life. When Anakin shares his nightmare of her dying in childbirth with her, her only question is whether the baby she is carrying survives. Because in that way Padme is a selfless person unlike Anakin who becomes selfishly fixated on his own need to prevent her from dying. Padme pretty consistently throughout the PT expresses that she is not afraid to die. When she is warned that the Trade Federation will kill her if she goes back to Naboo in TPM, she unflinchingly declares that her fate will be the same as her people. When she is about to be taken into the execution arena on Geonosis, she declares that she is not afraid to die, but that she just wants Anakin to know that she loves him before she dies. So, Padme is not a person freaked out by the prospect of her own death, but Anakin is the one who is terrified and haunted by the idea that she might die.

To me, in the PT Anakin's greatest flaw and problem is that he cannot accept the inevitability of death and loss. The fact of the matter is that Anakin, like everybody else in our world and in a galaxy far, far away, will experience death and loss. The Jedi cannot protect him from the inevitability of this most universal of experiences. So what the Jedi try to do is prepare him for that inevitability of death and loss. They do not offer him false promises of being able to save Padme like Palpatine does. Instead they try to teach Anakin how to accept death and loss when it inevitably occurs in his life.

Anakin goes to Yoda for advice about premonitions of pain, suffering, and death he is experiencing. Yoda seeks clarity on what those visions are. First, he asks Anakin if those visions relate to him (Anakin) or to someone he knows. Anakin says someone he knows. Yoda then asks if that someone is close to Anakin. Anakin hangs his head and says yes. Yoda gravely cautions Anakin about being careful in interpreting the future (not bad advice since Anakin misinterpreting his nightmare of Padme's death is kind of what ends up killing her and bringing about his own fall to the Dark Side) and that the fear of loss is a path to the Dark Side (which again seems to be a true warning since Anakin's fear of loss does bring him straight to the Dark Side within this same film).

Anakin then proceeds to disregard Yoda's words, insisting that he won't let his visions become real. At which Yoda counsels him that death is a natural part of life (which I'd again say is true and just an acknowledgement of reality that is often healthy in terms of psychology and spirituality). He also encourages Anakin to turn grief into something more sublime, rejoicing in those around him who transform into the Force. That is very similar to advice that people might get on Earth to celebrate the life of the departed instead of just focusing on negative emotions.

Yoda does warn Anakin that attachment can lead to possession, which is exactly what happens with Anakin in ROTS with Padme. He becomes possessive of her and ends up Force-choking her. So, again, Yoda's advice isn't bad here, but actually completely on point.

And if Anakin had taken Yoda's advice about training himself to let go of everything he feared to lose, he wouldn't have fallen to the Dark Side and inflicted so much suffering on the galaxy. He likely would've suffered less himself. It's Anakin fear of loss and inability to effectively deal with that loss that causes so much suffering for himself and the galaxy. That to me is the real tragedy of Anakin's downfall. That he just could not handle the inevitability of that most universal of experiences: death and loss.

The Jedi don't give Anakin any sort of false hope that he will have the power to make people live forever. Instead, they try to guide him in accepting the truth that, yes, those he cares about will die at some point, and he will have to find a healthy way of dealing with their loss. They also try to warn him about the dangers of being possessive. Dangers that are proven valid by Anakin's subsequent behaviors in ROTS, where he gets so possessive that he Force-chokes his wife.

Anakin's choice to live a deceitful, double life is his own. He could have chosen to not live a deceitful life by either 1) not marrying Padme or 2) marrying Padme and leaving the Jedi with the explanation that he values being married to Padme more than being a Jedi. The choice to live a deceitful, double life is Anakin's.

So, no, I don't come away from ROTS or any other Prequel film with the impression that the Jedi were wrong to warn Anakin about the very traits that result in his downfall. I come away with the impression that he probably should've listened to their warnings and spared himself and the galaxy some very terrible suffering.

 

Agreed. The politics in the PT is one of the best parts of the PT for me.

 

Can't say I found TPM politics boring even as an eight-year-old seeing it for the first time.

Some of the Podrace went on too long and got boring, though. Especially when it wasn't on the big screen in theaters. If there was any part of TPM I used to fast forward when my family owned it on VHS, it was the Podrace sequence.