Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Feelicks, Feb 23, 2013.
As much as I hate Jake Skywalker, I kinda liked the black robes on top of the white tunic.
Luke would not be wearing all black after Return of the Jedi. So his appearances on The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett should have him wearing Jedi tan and or white.
The looks correct all black Return of the Jedi outfit is wrong.
I always imagined he'd be wearing dark brown in the ST. Possibly with some black details. That would've looked cool, given him a style of his own and softened up his ROTJ look a bit.
His Jedi Master look from TFA is iconic, though. To this day, it amazes me that one short scene managed to completely reinvent Luke Skywalker. Visually speaking, of course.
They did well to keep him away from all trailers and posters.
Palaptine's make-up hasn't been consistent in any of the films we've seen him in.
The worst was ROTS when he looked like Regan from the exorcist. And in Obi-Wan, where they just plopped on a mask of some sort and didn't bother with the eyes, he was probably only there for half an hour of shooing before he was on his way to Tesco anyway, so didn't bother.
I've always been bothered that visual depictions of post-ROTJ Luke in the old EU defaulted to his ROTJ black outfit. The color was symbolic of his internal conflict at learning Darth Vader was his father, and was meant to set up some symbolic moral ambiguity - see also things like him Force-choking Bib Fortuna, and using a green lightsaber instead of what had until then been standard Jedi blue and Sith red. The fact that the flap of his shirt falls open after he refuses to kill his father, revealing a white inner lining, symbolizes his ultimate rejection of the Dark Side.
So ideally, depictions of Luke after ROTJ as a newly minted Jedi Master trying to re-found the Order would continue this symbolism by having him in clothes that aren't all black, all the time. But it was much easier - perhaps due to the sometimes overbearing influence of Lucas Licensing - for the old EU to just depict him in "whatever we saw him in on film last time", meaning an incredibly dull and dour (and frankly a bit Sithly) form-fitting black outfit.
The old Marvel comics went with a white tunic over the black outfit for a while.
And "Jedi wear black" predated ROTJ in the EU - Obi-Wan wears it in a Marvel Star Wars comic set during the Republic era - Silent Drifting (Leia's account of one of Bail's stories to her about Obi-Wan's adventures).
I get the whole symbolism clothing thing, but I dunno if I'd put that much emphasis on it. Dark clothing doesn't have to mean dark side. Look at Luminara Unduli.
Not necessarily. The Legends EU had Luke still wearing it half the time as it was. It makes sense to wear it before evolving into his ST outfits. Besides, he did wear other outfits
It was the book covers that kept him predominantly in his ROTJ outfit.
Yup - sometimes to the extent of being almost a tracing of a ROTJ still or publicity shot:
Those comics are wrong too then. Luke wears black in Return of the Jedi to show he is tempted by the dark side. Before the movie is over the triangle of white appears. Having him wear black afterwards ignore the visual story telling.
This is a weird complaint for me because I really like Luke’s Return of the Jedi costume and am glad he’s continued to be depicted wearing it.
On Mando having Luke in a recognizable costume also helps sell the illusion that it is Luke.
To be fair, Lucas intended for it to be a Jedi outfit. It was supposed to be what they actually wore. Most of what followed kept it in part because of that. Once the PT began, that's when the shift began. Since Lucas didn't get involved with it, there was no push to have Luke look like this...
...sooner than he did.
That's the symbolism to us, the audience, but Luke doesn't wear black to show he is tempted by the dark side. Luke simply wears a Jedi outfit that happens to be black. That Lucas was playing with the colors for a thematic motif has no bearing on the in-universe reality of Luke's character.
In fact, the theme starts right in ANH with his white outfit, then in TESB with his gray outfit and finally in ROTJ with his black outfit.
Same with Anakin. He doesn't change to progressively darker outfits to show the progress of his fall. Lucas is doing that. Anakin simply wears progressively darker-toned Jedi outfits.
I like Luke in the black post ROTJ. To me it symbolically says, "Yeah, I'm the son of Darth Vader, I may have some anger issues, so what? I'm still a goddamn hero, and so was he, in the end", not that I need Luke to actually have that thought process.
It also reads to me that Luke's generation of Jedi, divorced from the council and the rules and all that, might have been less boyscout style, choking out guards, intimidating and threatening gangsters, hooking up with redheads one day, etc. Kinda like Anakin's roguish style without the suffocating backlash of the council. I mean, it's not like Luke's actions in ROTJ (except for unleashing on Vader) are framed as him slipping to the dark side.
(I know Luke in Mando/TBOBF isn't like this though, instead basically becoming a drone of the old Jedi ways, devoid of emotions, especially with the deepfake, but that's another issue).
The black also kind of gives me the same vibe of Superman coming back to life and showing up in the black suit. It somehow accentuates the undeniably good soul of the man inside the suit even more.
The PT Jedi were not devoid of emotions. And frankly Anakin probably needed the Council's "suffocating" rules far more than he didn't.
And I'll be glad if they never have Luke hooking up with Mara Jade, or continuing to act like a thug with Force powers. I mean his entrance to Jabba's palace was cool and all, but he really should have matured beyond doing that after RotJ.
The guards in Jabba's palace were not going to let him pass. Would it be kinder to kill them?
he should have fed 'em bacon.
Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon would have just used the mind trick and call it good. Luke used the choke as a sign of being tainted by Vader's revelation. Killing the guards is a Sith tactic.
oh mind manipulation....much better.
Mind trick or Force push probably could've done the job just fine.
It was decided that learning the ways of the Force had to be a constant struggle for Luke and that he would always have to prove himself. In regard to the dark side of the Force, the story meeting transcripts [for TESB] suggest that although one can’t see it, it should be the real villain of the story. In his training Luke discovers the roots of the evil Force. The danger, the jeopardy is that Luke will become Vader, will be taken over. He has to fight the bad side and learn to work with the good side. Lucas felt that at one point during the training Ben should explain to Luke that he should use his powers with moderation. If he uses too much of the Force, it will start using him. For example, to lift objects Luke has to use the bad side of the Force, so if he overuses this power, the dark side will start taking him over as it did with Vader. When Luke fights, he has to use the dark side, but he is also using the good side for protection.
--Star Wars-The Empire Strikes Back: The Annotated Screenplays, 1997.
Any use of the Force on a living being is a dark side act. It's all in how it is used and what your mindset is. Simply waiting for Jabba to change his mind is not an option. A mind trick does no harm.
mind control, whoever uses it: Jedi, Sith, Greedo or the dude who we see grinning in Mos Eisley Cantina is bad.
The fact that people don't see this is kinda scary
"but Jedi do it, so no harm no foul"
Mind control sounds like a very, very dangerous path to go down. You do not remember me asking you out Padme. The fact that it only works on the weak minded makes it even more dangerous/unethical..
I mean, let's be real about how mind tricks are actually depicted in SW. The Jedi don't do mind tricks just because, they use them for emergencies. You know, like changing an enemy's intent about wanting to stop/ imprison/ kill you. It's not like they're permanently messing with their heads. The way the Jedi use it is pretty harmless.