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Saga Unpopular Star Wars opinions!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Feelicks, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2010
  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    But contrary to popular belief, Luke isn't using the dark side and choking the guards to begin with.
     
  3. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2010
    I think people assume it's Force-choking seeing how Vader had done it so freely, so it's a fair assumption to make. But yeah, it is kinda hard to tell what Luke's doing to the guards.
     
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  4. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

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    May 27, 1999
    They appear to be choking, but Luke is obviously not going into Vader territory. If he had, the guards would be dead. This is just a "Back off, fellas" gesture, appropriate for the big, hulking guards. Just as using a mind trick on Fortuna, who's not as big a threat and could usher him in, is also appropriate.
    As for the outfit, I remember reading in, I believe, "Bantha Tracks" back in the day that one reason he wore black was to show how serious he was this time. When you want to look absolutely determined, you wear black.
     
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  5. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2010
    Not exactly the first time he's worn black either:

    [​IMG]

    As a side, I quite like this outfit for Luke. It may not be super symbolic, but IMO it's better than the grey jumpsuit in ESB that made him look like a garage mechanic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  6. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 4, 1998
    According to the novelization, Luke's actions were faintly tinged with darkness when he entered Jabba's palace. I don't have the novel with me, but I expect someone can find the relevant passage.
     
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  7. Force Nexus

    Force Nexus Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 22, 2022
    [​IMG]
    Holding your throat and gasping for air is certainly not choking, guys. Luke was totally mind controlling them. Even though for some reason the guards behave as if they were being choked. Maybe they were just awestruck by Luke's awesomeness and lost their breath.
    It's like that Robot Chicken skit:
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  8. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

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    May 27, 1999
    The novel also has Luke laughing as he cuts down Jabba's goons on the Sail Barge. Fortunately, the movie tones it down considerably.
     
  9. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2010
    Looks more like the Gamorrean was grasping its chest, but who knows. Force chest pains can be a thing too, I guess.

    Whatever it is, it doesn't look pleasant. I think "tinged with darkness" is a good description of what Luke's doing there.
     
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  10. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    Contrary to your belief, he is. It's obvious. It's beyond obvious. It's the most obvious thing since the invention of obviousness.
     
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  11. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    1. Qui-Gon uses it on Nass because he is in a hurry and then to save Jar Jar's life.

    2. He attempts it on Watto to get the parts in order to get to Coruscant, so that the Senate could resolve the Naboo invasion.

    3. Obi-Wan does it to Elan to get him out of the way, so that Zam will come to him. Also, it stops him from selling drugs to people.

    4. Anakin uses it on the Reek to stop it from attacking him and the others.

    5. Obi-Wan uses it to avoid having Stormtroopers attack him and Luke.

    6. Luke uses it to get into seeing Jabba, so that he can get him and Chewbacca free.

    7. Rey uses it to escape, since she doesn't know Han, Chewie and Finn are coming for her.

    Anakin says that he wouldn't that to her, regardless of her willpower. That's part of their training, to become responsible when using it.

    He is choking them. Show me where it says that isn't true.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  12. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Aug 25, 2014
    I'm with @christophero30

    "it's ok to mind control people in certain situations, like if you're in a hurry and to get parts you needs for your ship"

    I know this is an unpopular opinions thread but...really? people are justifying mind control for...whatever reason?

    would people that are condoning it for be alright if mind control was used on you?

    point is mind control, force choke are two sides of the same coin, the fact that some think 'the good guys do it, so it must be ok, it is harmless' is worrying beyond belief.
     
  13. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

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    May 27, 1999
    Seems to me he was using it to defend himself from potential attack, and to go in and rescue his friends. And he used the minimum amount of force (or Force) to ward them off. If he'd been going Dark, they'd be in pieces on the floor, which wouldn't have helped the situation.
     
  14. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2010
    I think mind tricks are pretty much like any power or weapon the Jedi have: you have to use it responsibly and in times of need. And, well, I just find it hard to give a damn about a temporary Force trick that's used solely on bad guys to make them stop doing bad things. I think it's telling that most mind trick scenes have a light or humorous tone to go with them. It's mostly done for fun, for plot convenience, and to show off another neat Force power. I think it's pointless to overthink something like this in a franchise like Star Wars, but people will make of it what they will.

    As for Luke, I think he was using a touch of the dark side with the guards, even if it wasn't all-out. It is kinda hard to tell exactly what he's doing to them though, since they seem to back away in some kind of pain, then the one becomes still, almost like it's dozing off. Kinda weird.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  15. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    There is a difference between those who abuse abilities like that for personal gain, versus those who do it for a noble reason. Hence my liking Charles Xavier, J'onn J'onzz, Jean Grey, M'gann M'morzz, Betsy Braddock, Irma Arden, Nathan Summers, Nate Grey and other telepaths.

    And since telepaths don't exist, it's not a real issue.
     
  16. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Aug 25, 2014
    ahh I see situational ethics.

    "credits will do fine....credits will do fine" is personal gain...
    and has been pointed out "the force can have a strong influence on the weak minded" doesn't make it all that much better...in fact, it's more cause NOT to do it then.

    but whatever, we are not going to change our mind on this

    "whether mind tricks are good or bad is soley dependent on what colour lightsaber you happen to be weilding" got it.
     
  17. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2010
    Well, lightsabers and whether or not you wear black.
     
  18. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    A lot of things are situational. It's not as black and white in the real world.

    It's not personal gain. A planet is held captive by an invading force. The people are being made to suffer. They are starving. If Padme can convince the Senate to intervene, then why not? She can only do so with a fully operational ship. But sure, personal gain. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
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  19. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Aug 25, 2014
    uhhm, yes...personal gain...


    by forcing currency on him thathe did not want or have use for.

    ":rolleyes: " if you can't see that...not my problem.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  20. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

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    Jan 15, 2018
    Nothing wrong with doing it on a criminal and slave owner.
     
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  21. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Jedi should be better than to stooping to lows of a criminal and slave owner in my mind...is that an unpopular opinion? not sure.
     
  22. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

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    Jan 15, 2018
    Qui gon Jinn is a jedi that is not the norm
     
  23. SmokeMonster4815162342

    SmokeMonster4815162342 Jedi Master star 3

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    Dec 31, 2015
    I always thought the abuse of mind-tricks could make for an interesting key conflict for a SW film, be it from a Jedi or a Sith.

    Anyways, unpopular opinion maybe, but I thought Nemik was painful to watch. Something about the actor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
  24. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    But the script and what the scene is intended to show, is simply Luke using the Force to make the guards disarm themselves and fall back:

    Luke is basically knocking them out. Which is completely different from what Vader does (and is described doing in the scripts), which is to strangle people in anger.

    People only assume that Luke is choking them because of the way the actors in the Gamorrean suits (with their respective limited motions) played it out, with their hands in the chest.
     
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  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Wacky Wednesday Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The hands looked like they were grabbing for the neck, not the chest. After seeing what happened to Tagge, and to Ozzel, with them reaching almost exactly the same way, IMO the implications were pretty clear.

    If they wanted people to conclude it was something "mind-trick-ish" then they would have made them "lower their spears and fall back" - no grabbing motions, no sagging to the ground.

    Textbook example of "what the script said" being changed for the movie - turned into a call-back to the Ozzel and Motti scenes.
    You may be thinking of Luke's reaction to Jabba sentencing them to the Sarlacc.


    Luke only smiled. "You should have bargained, Jabba. That's the last mistake you'll ever make." Luke was unable to suppress the satisfaction in his voice. He found Jabba despicable - a leech of the galaxy, sucking the life from whatever he touched. Luke wanted to burn the villain, and so was actually rather glad that Jabba had refused to bargain - for now Luke would get his wish precisely. Of course, his primary objective was to free his friends, whom he loved dearly; it was this concern that guided him now, above all else. But in the process, to free the universe of this gangster slug - this was a prospect that tinted Luke's purpose with an ever-so-slightly dark satisfaction.


    A "choke hold" makes people fall unconscious. Basically that, but with The Force instead of hands. It's also quite dangerous in real life - a little mistake can lead to major damage or death.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChokeHolds
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
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