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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Saga Unpopular Star Wars opinions!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Feelicks, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. BlackRanger

    BlackRanger Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2018
    This is something else that arose from generalizing what we see on screen in the OT.

    Early on, the lightsabers were going to be all sorts of colors - in this Ralph McQuarrie painting from the second draft, for instance, Luke's brother Deak Starkiller wields a yellowish blade, and Darth Vader wields a blue one. (Plus, in the 1974 rough draft, only the color of protagonist Annikin Starkiller's lightsaber is described... and it's red.)

    [​IMG]

    For technical reasons, while shooting the first film, they tried a technique to capture the lightsabers in-camera that required all lightsabers to be the same color. Lucas opted for giving everybody white sabers. (They were using glowing rods with electric cords stuck up the actors' sleeves - one reason for the stilted choreography of the Death Star duel in SW 1977). This can be seen in the original theatrical trailer, but the effect was seriously underwhelming.

    [​IMG]

    As a result, Lucas decide to go with rotoscoping and restore the individual saber colors from Ralph McQuarrie's concept art - but initially Obi-Wan's saber was blue, and Vader's was red! It was editor Paul Hirsch who suggested they be swapped around like we see in the theatrical film, so that blue was "good" and red was "evil" rather than the other way around. (The blue & red areas of the Death Star tractor beam gauge were switched as well.)

    Luke's lightsaber in ROTJ was blue in early trailers, but the final film switched it to green, because A) green stood out against the blue sky in the sail barge scene, which the blue blade seen in early trailers didn't; B) it illustrates quickly and non-verbally that Luke has constructed a new lightsaber; and C) it was a color previously associated with neither the Jedi or bad guys, so it added to the question of whether or not Luke would turn to the dark side. Larry Kasdan actually suggested giving Luke a different-colored lightsaber in the ROTJ story conferences, but it didn't get taken up until practical reasons made it necessary.

    (Other colors considered for Luke's ROTJ saber might have been yellow or orange, since some of John Alvin's poster art sketches show Luke with a yellow or orange blade.)

    So because of the way the OT came out, blue was the "good guy" lightsaber color, red was the "bad guy" color, and green was meant to suggest neutral. Then TPM gave Qui-Gon a green lightsaber, which incorporated green as a "good guy" color as well. But no further colors were added (aside from Mace Windu's purple blade): Jedi in the prequels used either blue or green sabers, but no other colors, and Sith always used red.

    This meant that there was an oddly restricted yet asymmetrical color palette. There were no other options, and it was never really clear why.

    When people like Dave Filoni tried to add yellow lightsabers in series like the 2008 Clone Wars, George Lucas usually made them take them out, or at least water down their colors so they were still greenish. Eventually there were just too many instances, though, and the rule was evidently relaxed.

    Now in the Disney-era canon, with kiber crystals that are bonded to individual Jedi, there's at least an in-story rationale for individual lightsaber colors, so something like the multicolor saber proliferation of Ralph McQuarrie's concept art is possible in "canon" again. (Another thing I like about the Disney-era canon: it at least explains the Sith having a unified lightsaber color scheme. Rather than just We're Edgy Sith Lords So We Have Red Blades.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
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  2. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I'm still waiting for a brown one to appear.
     
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  3. BlackRanger

    BlackRanger Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Gah. I meant to write "...but initially Obi-Wan's saber was red, and Vader's was blue! It was editor Paul Hirsch..." in the above post. Only caught it after the edit window had closed. Hopefully the intended meaning is still apparent.
     
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  4. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    I find some Prunes usually do the trick.
     
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  5. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Bronze would look pretty cool:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Not showing for me - but I'm guessing you mean the Lowbacca pic?

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Yep, that’s the one.
     
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  8. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    I'd understood that the 'sabers weren't electrical, but were rather a highly-reflective Scotchlite material, plus the rotoscoped animation.
     
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  9. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    If there's any justice, it should be.
     
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  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    It may not be canon, but it's a perfect example of "Legends material is allowed to be drawn from, making its way into the newcanon" with there having been quite a lot of references to material from it, over the last few years.
     
  11. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Agreed. The Microseries is ten times better TCW series IMHO.
     
  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    It's different from them. Not as loud. Very different.

    Which was not Lucas's intention. Seems like Tartalovsky didn't have a lot to go on when Chapter 20 was being written.
     
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  13. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    I prefer the notion of Grevious being a near-unstoppable menace before Mace cripples him. It makes him more of a match for the Jedi, and better contributes to his being a distraction from their real enemy.
     
  14. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Same. I remember reading about Grevious life prior to The Clone Wars as Kahleesh Hunter in SW Insider. I wish we knew more about him prior to his mechanical monster phase.
     
  15. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    c'mon, mate . You're just fooling yourself.
     
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  16. Force Nexus

    Force Nexus Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2022
    It doesn't even make sense that Mace crushing his chest would somehow "cripple" him, since all he did was spin his MECHANICAL hands like a windmill and the Jedi in that 2003 cartoon couldn't do anything about it for whatever reason. How is whatever inside his chest being crushed affects the rotation of his mechanical hands and him being able to jump around like a monkey? I always hated that and it never made sense.

    The point of Grievous is that he was just a red herring and that he always ran away, and the fact that he was the second in command in the CIS. With Dooku dead and him captured, the military structure of the CIS would collapse and the war would be over, from the Jedi POV. Him being unstoppable or not has nothing to do with it. He is more of a cunning tactician than necessarily a skilled fighter.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2023
  17. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    Grevious was a cyborg. It was his lungs & heart that got crushed. Even with mechanical limbs, that kind of internal damage will affect his fighting ability. In any case, the earlier series had him do more than just spin his hands. He was fast, could fight multiple opponents simultaneously, and relied on shock & awe tactics that the Jedi didn't have time to adapt to before he took them down. If the Jedi are afraid of an enemy that can kill them with utter ruthlessness, they won't be wondering about the guy they're working for who's quietly planning to seize total power.
     
  18. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Well said. Organ damage is no light matter.
     
  19. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    That's another thing that series got wrong, having the Jedi cowering in fear of a cyborg with lightsabers. Even ignoring the misinterpretation of Grievous, that would never happen. Jedi are trained against fear.
     
  20. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    If you're suddenly confronted with an enemy that's faster & stronger than you are, strikes without warning, has been trained in how to fight you on your terms, and will not stop until you & your fellows are dead, you will be afraid. It's natural, and goes beyond training or experience. Yes, the Jedi would overcome their fear, if they had enough time. But Grevious had been trained to kill them quickly, before they were able to get reoriented.
     
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  21. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Haha, never underestimate Sarge when swords are involved!
     
  22. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    No, it doesn't. Jedi are trained against fear. That's the whole point of being a Jedi. Take a look at how trained Jedi behave in the movies. They always have a nonchalant attitude, no matter what they face, no matter how dangerous the situation they are in is. Be it a Sith lord, kaiju in the depths of the ocean, kilometers high falls, hundreds of battle droids/stormtroopers, any situation where they face certain death, etc. And that's because of their training. Why would they behave any differently against a lightsaber-wielding cyborg? It makes no sense whatsoever.

    Time has nothing to do with it. They simply don't give into fear, it's out-of-character.
     
  23. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Fear is not always a bad thing. Fear makes you alert and gives you a shot of adrenalin that helps you move faster and with more power. The trick is to keep fear under control, not let it make you panic, freeze, or flee. Anyone who faces danger on a regular basis understands the benefits of feeling fear, as well as the necessity of controlling their fear.
     
  24. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    You are no Jedi!

    [​IMG]
    :p
     
  25. Wolpertinger

    Wolpertinger Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2022
    Here is my unpopular opinion: The franchise is dying. Disney has no films in the pipeline and the Disney+ series have been poorly reviewed. The producers have no idea where to take the franchise and have been reduced to throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Andor was great, but it's serious tone doesn't synch up with shows like Obi Wan and the Mandalorian. A lot of long time fans have moved on to greener pastures. I personally know three former fans who dropped Disney+ and subscribed to HBO Max instead.

    Mandalorian itself is turning into an anthology as management keeps introducing new characters. Star Wars shows now have a poor return on investment and some in Disney management wonder if the franchise was worth what they paid for it. Maybe they should sell it back to Lucas at a loss.
     
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