Update Private Messages -- Waste of Time or Helpful Convenience? A Discussion

Alley, that was too many emoticons. I need to shake you or stuff you in a closet for that one, my little Padawan.


Do you as an author like sending them out?

--I like sending out PMs. I send out about a dozen with every update and sometimes I throw in little goodies (trailers or art) with the PMs. I'm not desperately fishing for comments or too busy to be bothered with reader requests, I consider a lot of the folks who read my work to be friends and I don't have a problem spending ten minutes to send out notices.


How do you feel about giving them to lurkers?

--I have no problem giving them to lurkers, although if someone is going to request PMs I think it's nice if they tell me ahead of time that they're going to lurk. Otherwise if I don't see the around I might pull them off the list as a courtesy.


Do you expect replies whenever someone requests one?

--Nope. It's nice when regular readers reply, but I don't expect a 1:1 ratio between PMs and replies.


What about unopened pm's, how do you deal with those?

--I'm terrible for leaving PMs unopened as a reader, so I understand. I give them two and then pull them off my list until they let me know they're still reading.


Why do you as a reader like receiving them?

--I'm forgetful and I'm busy. I like PMs (and between Yodimus and Face I've received some really funny update PMs)


How helpful are they in really keeping track of stories?


--I repeat: I'm forgetful and I'm busy. I'll miss things if people don't scream at me.

 

Not to go off topic, but between Yodimus & Exeter, I get my monies worth just from the PMs themselves...and oqi's "extras" are like the milk to go with the oreos...I don't do it, but I really appreciate people who put so much effort into a simple update PM.

 

Is there a way to tally the poll, Layren? I think a lot of writers and readers find the results of this very helpful. I know I already do.

 

The easiest way for a tally would be if the mods would add a poll to the opening post of the thread, or I could enlist some volunteers and hand count the results.

 

Not sure the point of a poll. This is really a case of 'to each their own.'

Thought I would chip in though...

Do you as an author like sending them out?

No I don't.

If you don't send them out, why not?

I did at one point to some of my newest readers who kept asking for PMs. My established readers never jumped into asking for PMs because they knew when and where to find my updates. I stopped sending them out after not too long, and this is why. People are very eager to ask for PMs. They are asking for the author to put out effort, and I feel many of these PM requests are gratuitous. If authors want to go through that effort, then that's fine for them. And I did for a while because I wanted to be considerate of my readers who needed the extra help finding my story, even though it was updated regularly. What completely turned me off was that those same people who want an author to go out of the way to maintain a PM list and send them weekly PMs, don't have the courtesy to then unask when they choose to no longer read a story. And before people bring up that these people might still be reading just not responding I know for a fact these people aren't reading and let that information be well known to everyone but the author they had asked to spend time sending PMs.

At some point I realized that my readership and reply tallies weren't different from the pre-PM era. That was when the lightbulb hit and I realized it was all a futile effort that added unnecessary work. Sending out PMs did not affect my readership levels on a broader level so there was no gain for the effort. The only thing the PMs had accomplished was to make sure more people responded immediately. I remember distinctly that the PMed readers usually responded in the first 24 hours if at all. The rest of the readers trickled in over the rest of the week, and there is an added benefit in the trickle effect - it keeps the story on the first page. As an author I like to know my readers responded because they wanted to and because they remembered my story. It's a nice feeling.

Because I do remember what it's like to be a newer author though I can see the merits of using PMs when kickstarting a fanfic career or maybe even to revive an older story that took some down time. It's not necessarily a bad idea in those cases.

How do you feel about giving them to lurkers?

N/A.

Do you expect replies whenever someone requests one?

I don't ever expect replies. If my post moves a person then it's nice to hear about that. Personally I feel PMs end up guiltng readers into giving a reply. I'd rather let my story grab a reply because the reader felt something in my post.

What about unopened pm's, how do you deal with those?

Never been a problem. I don't see why anyone would keep sending out PMs if the person hasn't opened up the last update announcement. But then again I feel it's the authors duty to maintain that list. Nothing irks me more than getting unsolicited PMs from an author I've told repeatedly to not send me PM updates. The excuse that the author 'forgot' is pretty lame on the second or third time.

Why do you as a reader like receiving them?

I asked a couple of times for update PMs. I thought it was nice to know that an infrequently updated story was updated. At the same time, I found that while I knew there was an update and I could print it out to read, I didn't always have the time to respond. It seems most people are saying here we're not under any obligation to respond either. The author of said story may have assumed I wasn't reading and has since dropped me from her PM list. I am however still reading, and have responded on a limited basis. I find that I still look around for her story, because it's a good story. I never needed the PMs in the first place.

How helpful are they in really keeping track of stories?

Honestly if a writer hasn't proven he/she can complete an epic I'm not going to commit the time to read his/her stuff. I pract

 

Do you as an author like sending them out?

I don't mind at all. When someone requests for a PM, I am happy to oblige. I write for fun, and I don't expect others to like the things I write. When they do, I am honoured. My readers are doing ME a favour when they read, lurk, or review. I think sending out PMs in return is asking very little of me. I never consider it to be a hassle.

Besides, I tend to update when I have time. Sending out PMs doesn't take that much extra time, so it's really not asking me to make a huge time sacrifice either.

If you don't send them out, why not?
N/A

How do you feel about giving them to lurkers?

Not a problem at all. Lurkers are always welcome.

Do you expect replies whenever someone requests one?

No, requesting for PM updates doesn't bind you to a contract for replying to every subsequent post. Some readers prefer not to engage in active discussion, and that is perfectly fine. Replies are nice, but I never consider them to be obligatory.

What about unopened pm's, how do you deal with those?

So far, it's never happened to me.

Why do you as a reader like receiving them?

PMs help me keep track of which WIPs I am currently following. I tend to remember the stories I really like, but that doesn't mean I have all the time in the world to search the boards for them, just in case they have been updated. I usually end up missing updates, especially if the story is not on the first or second pages when I check the boards. I can't save all of the WIPs I like to favourites either, because that would just become impossible to navigate.

How helpful are they in really keeping track of stories?

Pretty useful. I'm on the PM list for a few stories right now. I can also scroll through my 'read messages' list and see all the stories I followed in the past.

 

Obviously, I wasn't around back in those days; I just recently joined, about four months ago, though I did lurk for about two months before that, and all I saw was "May I be added to the PM list?" or "PM me please" and "Thanks for the PM" and so on and so forth. Naturally, this became my idea of what you did when you liked a story, and my very first reply had "Will you add me to the PM list" in it. As an author, I also simply assumed that you did (Yes, I'm new to Fanfiction ) and I never had a problem with it, or with asking others to put me on theirs. I didn't feel like I was inconveniencing them, because I was never inconvenienced by it. But I still se where you're coming from. I imagine that it's like that for all the Oldbies of the Forums, who have been around since the near beginning of the JCF. I recently started going back to the Classics Forum, and I did notice that it was rarely, if ever, a natrual thing to ask for updates, and so I get your point here.

Yeah, I wonder about that too, though unless someone asks for one, I never send them a PM. just a risk I have to take.

One thing I do wonder aout, is interest. It's not that I mind lurkers- I really don't. What I'm concerned about, is the reader losing interest in the story, but being to polite to say "Stop PMing me" and I would end up filling the person's PM box with something th

 

Do you as an author like sending them out?

NO. It's extra work that I don't always have time to do. Part of the reason why I don't post even when I have the chapter ready is because I don't have the extra 15 minutes to send out 10-20 PMs . . . my computer time is inconsistent and often way too brief. However, I send them out anyway because they're standard courtesy. If people want them, they'll get them. Despite my personal dislike of sending them out, if people want to keep up with my story that way I'm honored.

If you don't send them out, why not?

N/A

How do you feel about giving them to lurkers?

The moment I can't send one to them anymore (because 5 of my PMs haven't been opened) is when I stop sending them out. Then they'll have to ask again. If they keep opening the PMs, I assume they're still reading and paying at least a marginal amount of attention.

Do you expect replies whenever someone requests one?

I used to do that, but now I don't. People have time to read but they don't always reply, some of the writers whose stories I subscribe to can attest to that! But even if I don't answer, I am still reading, so that's another reason why lurkers don't really bother me. It's because I often am one.

What about unopened pm's, how do you deal with those?

See my response to the third question.

Why do you as a reader like receiving them?

Because it helps me keep track of stories so I can keep reading and catching up.

How helpful are they in really keeping track of stories?

It helps a lot, actually. That's partially why I continue to maintain PM lists even though as a writer I'm not really fond of them.

 

Well, I?ll find it useful to understand the prevailing sentiment on the boards. The etiquette about PMs has always confounded me.

Now, that?s the rub, isn?t it? I know from personal experience on both sides of the line that a lot of people don?t let a writer know when they?ve lost interest in the story. They just drift away? When PM alerts are involved, it becomes more complicated.

 

I agree. It'd be interesting to see at the least.

-Krystal

 

Do you as an author like sending them out?

If I didn't, would I have come up with the mass-PM method? (Answer: yes, I would because I'm a geek. )

I usually include a one-sentence summary of the new chapter that is as misleading as it can be without actually telling a falsehood. I find this more fun than can possibly be legal.

How do you feel about giving them to lurkers?

Being a lurker myself, I don't mind at all. To be quite honest, I prefer lurkers to readers who are . . . um, very enthusiastic about the fic's direction.

Do you expect replies whenever someone requests one?

No. Because my default mode is "lurk", you see. So long as the PMs are opened, I don't mind at all.

What about unopened PMs, how do you deal with those?

I fret a lot.

I've never had it happen to me yet, but if the number of unopened PMs nears the limit, I'll send a PM titled "Open my update PMs or I'll stop sending them!!!!!" And I'll include the URLs of the unopened PMs, just in case they miss the point.

How helpful are they in really keeping track of stories?

I've only asked for update PMs once. But I kept checking the thread on a more or less daily basis until it was finished, so I have no idea whether it helped or not.

- lazy

 

*looks around* Wow. It's been a while.

Don't ask me why I was moved to respond to this particular question, but I was.

The other questions are largely, as someone above said a "to each his/her own thing" and my voice is no more significant than the others.

That said, I noticed that several people expressed concern about unopened PMs with attitudes ranging from mild annoyance to believing that the receiver is downright rude. I felt I had to say something.

Right now, there are 8 unopened PMs in my inbox. One of them I sent to myself in November of last year. Another one was sent to me by a good friend that same month. I?ll get to them when I can. I use the unopened PMs as a reminder that a story I?m following is out there and I want to read it. Generally, I read and respond to the story first and THEN open the PM. There is no way I can log on without a bright right sign that tells me I have update PMs in my inbox.

There was a time when fanfic was the only thing I did online. Those days are pretty much over and now I have to decide when I?m going to do fanfic. Reading and responding to a story is an investment of time and heart. I have to be in the right mindset. Sometimes I have to remind myself of the story I was reading (going back and re-reading previous chapters). The point is that my failure to open an update PM should not be considered and insult to the author and I hope they never take it that way.


That is all.

 

When did this become a poll? Perhaps a new thread needs to be started that'll have the voting stuff in the first post like usual. And it really doesn't matter what the answers in that poll might be or what they tally up to, this isn't anything hard and fast. This thread mostly looks like people expressing ambiguous and widely varying opinions. It's not about "Are PMs a good idea, check yes or no".

Not that any of this matters. This falls into the zone of stuff that is just normal board traffic so authors who want to notify readers are going to continue doing that and individuals that track their own stuff/let others manage themselves will keep on that path. *shrugs*

 

Do you as an author like sending them out?

As an author, I'm honored and happy to send pm's out. It is more important to me to do it because I know that I update very, very infrequently. In my early days, I had an iron-clad Wednesday evening update schedule; life has seen it fit to make that much less likely now. Most of my readers I think know that. If someone likes my story enough to want to know what happens next, I'll happily facilitate that. I see writing as a two-way street--I write for myself, yes, but by putting it online I'm making a relationship with all the fantastic readers, as well. If I'm not able to offer them a guaranteed "release date," then I'm going to pm them if they want. It is a compliment and an honor that people want me to do that. I can understand how, if I still updated every Wednesday with the tide, the pm may not be so important, if at all. But... I don't. I also like to put brief summaries of what happened last in my pm's if it has been awhile, so if someone is still interested, they can jump right in. If they're no longer interested, that's fine--but I will at least give them the option. I could keep my stories offline, but I enjoy the interaction with others. I admit it. I'm honored to be able to facilitate a relationship with them all.

If you don't send them out, why not?

How do you feel about giving them to lurkers?

Well. I have a fluid pm list. I'm happy to pm to lurkers if they tell me they want to lurk. It's all good. But I usually pm to the people who have responded within the last 3 chapters and asked for pm's... this tends to be people that have responded within the last 3 months, for me. If they haven't replied within 3 chapters, I check to see if they've opened their pm's. Usually they haven't, and I move along. It hasn't ever been a major issue for me.

Do you expect replies whenever someone requests one?

I'd like one, yes, if only to know that you're still interested in the story and I'm not flooding your inbox unnecessarily. However, no, I'm cool with lurkers too. I've been one on more than one occasion. If they haven't replied for awhile, though, I'll get concerned about being annoying and work on that. However, I'm all laid-back about this.

What about unopened pm's, how do you deal with those?

If I notice it is unopened, I won't pm again. Who needs 2 pms for the same story? All pms lead back to the same story. I check maybe once every 3 chapter updates. It hasn't really been a major issue for me.

Why do you as a reader like receiving them?

I love them. Love them love them love them. I love being able to zip right in even when my schedule is hairy. What is more, I love being able to know that I never forget an update. I'm all about relationships with people. The boards aren't just about reading things--I could read things as a lurker and not have to fuss with people. But I want to. I have great friends. I love making new ones. I ask for pms--I'm starting up a relationship with a person, or continuing one. I love to encourage people. I love to thank people for writing things I've loved. I like spreading good cheer when people are willing to let me. Pm's help me do that, and enjoy all my favorite stories. What's not to love?

How helpful are they in really keeping track of stories?

Very. I'm following two--count em, two--stories without pm lists. I have to keep my eye out for them, and I'm always afraid I'm going to miss something. That's not the impression I want to give an author. Therefore, pm lists are like my security blanket.

 

I had a little spare time so I tallied the responses. Someone might need to re-check the figures though. I listed some of the most frequently repeated comments under the points whenever I could, but the list is not conclusive.



Tallied 37 responses.

Do you as an author like sending them out?

Yes, I like sending PMs and I do. ? 21/37
I enjoy it a lot.
It?s extremely easy with lazy?s code.
I make my PMs fun.
I feel obligated to send PMs.
I like knowing who?s reading.

No, I don?t like sending PMs but I send them anyway. ? 8/37
Let down when people don?t review immediately.
Extra work and so little time to do it.
I like getting them.
Flattered by the number of people that asked.

No, I don?t like sending PMs and I don?t send PMs. ? 4/37
I?m irritated whenever I?m accidentally put on a PM list (2).
I used to but found out it made no difference.

Yes, I like sending PMs but I don?t ? 4/37
I?m honored when people ask but I don?t have the time.
I haven?t written anything lengthy.





If you don't send them out, why not?

Not Applicable ? 29/37

Applicable ? 8/37
I have a regular posting schedule.
I?m too busy/ I have no time!
It doesn?t make any difference to my feedback pool
If reader is interested, he/she will read it with/without a PM.
People don?t un-ask when they lose interest.
(From a reader) I link to stories I read. I don?t need the PMs
I have not written anything lengthy enough.




How do you feel about giving them to lurkers?

No problem, I?ll do it anyway ? 24/37
They can all be lurkers for all I care.
May still be out there reading.
Ticked off by authors who complain about lurkers.
I can?t even tell who is lurking or not.
Post-script in the PM that you can be taken off the list on request is enough.

N/A. I don?t send PMs out at all. ? 6/37

N/A. I?ve never had this problem. ? 2/37

I don?t. ? 1/37
They can lurk without a PM.

None of the above ? 4/37
If they?re lurking, how do you know they?re there?
I give only if they specifically ask for PMs



Do you expect replies whenever someone requests one?

No ? 21/37
But it would be nice to get replies on occasion.
Sometimes people don?t have time.
Some people prefer to lurk.
It makes me nervous. I feel the quality of my story has fallen.
Perhaps they did not like the update.

Yes ? 7/37

N/A. I don?t send PMs out at all. ? 6/37
I feel PMs guilt people into receiving replies

No. I used to but not any longer. ? 2/37

No answer ? 1/37



What about unopened pm's, how do you deal with those?

N/A. I don?t send PMs out at all ? 6/37

I don?t send a PM unless the previous one has been opened. ?6/37

I don?t send a PM if 2-4 have not been opened. ? 7/37

I don?t send a PM if the maximum limit has been reached [or more]. ? 3/37

I ask the reader specifically if he/she wants PMs? 2/37

I wait a month then bump the person [regardless of the number] ?1/37

I drop off readers who reply elsewhere. ?1/37

Never happened to me. ?5/37

None of the above ? 6/37
It?s the user?s problem, not mine.
I just growl silently.
I leave one of my own PMs unopened.
I wish they would because of spamming.
My biggest pet peeve.



Why do you as a reader like receiving them?

Yes, I like receiving them. ? 29/37
Helps me keep track of stories.
I read a lot of stories.
I have a bad memory/forget things.
I?d probably never know a story I was reading was updated.
The boards move quickly.
It helps me schedule when to read them.
Active Topic Notification is not effective.
I only ask for PMs from stories that have a small reader-ship.
I only ask for PMs from stories that are rarely updated.
Scratch the au

 

Thanks, l_n!

 

You're welcome.

 

WOW! Hoorah for extra time on your hands, L_N!
That was really helpful!

 

Oh, Leia_Naberrie's (great effort btw) tally reminded me that it was lazy's mass PM shortcut that cured my aggravation with PMs.!

Thanks lazy!

 

Believe me, I second that. I hated sending PM's before that method because it took so darn long (and I was on dial-up, too).

Anyone else have a problem with lazy's method not working with the new version of IE? I had to uninstall it to keep using it, which shows you how invaluable the method is.

 

Thanks everyone.

Valairy_Scot, do you mean IE 7 or is there another version that comes with Windows Vista?

I use IE 7 and lazy's code works fine with it. I think you need to Enable ActiveX or something.

 

Wow, thanks for getting those together L_N! It was good to see the results together

 

Yay leia_naberrie! That was extremely informative and helpful to know what other authors are thinking. Thanks for the hard work!

-Krystal

 

Do you as an author like sending them out?

I haven't been around, really, for the last year and a half. But when I used to update semi-frequently, I did send them out. It wasn't my most favorite thing to do, but I figured that if someone liked the story enough to ask, then why not? I shoved the duty off on a friend several times, I remember. This was before Lazy's PM form, I believe, so I had to do them all by hand, and it did take a long time. So while I wouldn't say I liked sending them out, it wasn't too horrible of a chore.

I think now they're probably going to be helpful whenever I get around to updating again. After all, I haven't updated since August?2005, so it's definitely going to be a shock once I post again... And I never kept to a certain schedule either. That's part of the reason I didn't mind so much- because while some authors truly don't need it, since they always update on a certain day, I never did. So it became a way for my readers to keep track of me and when there was going to be a new post.

If you don't send them out, why not?

Um...not really applicable. Because I did send them out when asked.

How do you feel about giving them to lurkers?

I could never keep track of who got them and reviewed and who didn't. If I noticed that someone hadn't been around in ages, then I would probably stop. But that hadn't happened by the time I stopped posting, so...

Lurkers are great. I lurk a lot of places. And I know that different people have different reasons to lurk. So I didn't mind sending out the PMs to lurkers, though if it had been a really long time, I might have ended up asking, just to make sure.

Do you expect replies whenever someone requests one?

It would be nice, yes, but no. I know that people are busy, so I don't really expect a reply. Replies are fun to get, but they're not obligatory. I severely dislike it when an author begins to think that they're entitled to a certain number of reviews, so I try to refrain from doing the same thing myself.

What about unopened pm's, how do you deal with those?

I don't remember...and I don't think I ever noticed, to tell the truth.

Why do you as a reader like receiving them?

I don't. I never ask for them, and I usually get semi-peeved when someone sends them out. I remember being fairly ticked off once, when an author said that they were going to send PMs to everyone who replied. I don't think that's right- I think they should only be sent out to those who explictly ask- and reviewing does not count as asking for PMs, in my opinion. Plus, while I was active at the site, I was around pretty much 24/7 anyways, so I didn't need them. When I stopped being active and dropped out from existance, I wasn't going to see them/read them anyways. So there was no point in ever getting them. I do remember asking a few people to stop and even getting the mods involved, and then the author would write me back and ask why I didn't want PMs, as if they were hurt that I didn't like their stuff that much to get PMs. It had nothing to do with the quality, but simply the fact I found them useless for myself.

How helpful are they in really keeping track of stories?

Erm...see above? In other words, not really helpful. I'm so horribly behind, it's not even funny. So it's pointless for me to get them in the first place.