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Discussion UPDATED: Game of Thrones Creators NOT to Write/Produce a New Series of Star Wars Films

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Future Films - Spoilers Allowed' started by Diego Lucas, Feb 6, 2018.

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  1. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    This. The narrative has been that KK was on the verge of being fired, everything was going to be cancelled and Feige was coming in to steer the ship on the next trilogy. The articles from Variety and THR dispute this. This was a decision Kennedy herself made because of creative differences and concerns that they wouldn't be able to juggle Star Wars and Netflix. It also states she still has the confidence of Disney, they're looking for other filmmakers to take over the GoT guys project, Rian is still working on his trilogy and Feige's film is a standalone that will in all likelihood not be the next one out in 2022.
     
  2. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Who has said this? I know that I've speculated that Feige might take over after KK stepped down/retired, but I never suggested she would be fired. I can't remember anyone saying that, but I might have missed it.
    I thought that HR article made it clear that they quit, or that it was at least mutual.

    "Whether forces internal or external were in play, Benioff and Weiss wanted out. "It was a hard quit,” says an insider."
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  3. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Hmmmm, did you read the Variety and THR articles? It's no secret that LFL has had trouble coming to agreements with creators over which stories to tell. The Lord and Miller firings were the most dramatic, but hardly the first instance of this. I know people are lamenting the "toxic fans" for scaring away top billed directors, but really it's LFL that's apparently doing this, at least according to the reports. It's pretty clear to a lot of us who've been paying attention since TLJ that LFL never has and still doesn't really know exactly what they want out of Star Wars long term. Until they show that they do, skepticism is probably warranted.

    Rian Johnson is quoted only a month ago as saying "if it happens" regarding his trilogy. Are you still thinking the chances are better than 50/50? Nothing wrong with making predictions and congratulating people for being correct.

    I think that for the last year or so, most of the people who think KK will go have been saying it will happen after Ep IX? And no offense, but weren't you saying the B&W was on track clear up to a day before they announced it was canceled?

    I think these kinds of moments, where big developments happen, are a good opportunities to reflect on our assumptions. I think the major takeaway I'm getting is that A) LFL still doesn't really know what they want from the franchise, and B) their purported program if supporting creatively independent directors like RJ seems to be having a lot of problems. It's making me reconsider how much control he really had over TLJ.
     
  4. black_saber

    black_saber Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2002
    I also believe if this trilogy still happens and it’s not our game of thrones showrunners not on it, and above all if it was about the birth of the Jedi, maybe it should be suitable for a tv show.
     
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  5. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I wasn't referring to you, Pro, but it has been a widely held belief since TLJ and especially after Solo bombed. It's been suggested by too many people to count.

    Yes, sorry. It was likely a mutual parting of the ways. I just meant it wasn't something forced on KK.

    No. I said it had been confirmed by Iger that it was the 2022 film which was true. I also acknowledged things could change which was also true.
     
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  6. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I don't know if we should count abusive, toxic, jerks on twitter as "Star Wars fans". Everyone here is a Star Wars fan. And despite some passionate disagreement about what makes for great Star Wars, I wouldn't label anyone here a "Star Wars Destroyer". Unless you lump any and all criticism with the "toxic" brush.
     
  7. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    There has been a narrative (including in the post that I quoted) that this is further evidence of KK's plans being overridden by others.

    Essentially everyone has acknowledged that since Solo their plans have been in flux, just as basically everyone has been critical of the way that KK apparently hires people that she eventually she decides to get rid of. There is also a problem with wooing new directors if they begin to gain a reputation of hiring and firing people. There has however been push back that toxic fans are having an impact as you've just done, when we now have two instances of it now. Both can be factors.

    Which he has now walked back somewhat. I don't know if RJ's trilogy will go ahead. To be honest I don't think that LFL is sure what will be next.

    I'm only disagreeing because the people you are 'congratulating' (and who are patting themselves on the back) made a guess that many others thought were possible. Their reasonings don't appear to be correct however.

    I don't think we can just excise them from fandom and then declare there are no toxic fans. There are toxic fans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  8. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Indeed. A Jedi origin story is too risky. Imagine if the origin of the Jedi was botched and turned off just as many fans as the portrayal of Luke in TLJ did or Anakin in the PT?
     
  9. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Ah, you meant over the last couple of years. Yes, I've seen that suggested a lot. I thought you meant a very recent thing, like since the Feige announcement.
    Yes, it definitely isn't being forced on KK. It seems things just didn't work out, and both parties called it quits.
     
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  10. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Well, I've also seen it suggested with regards to Feige's involvement too.
     
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  11. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Of course I wouldn't, but the effect is there and it cannot be ignored or dismissed. I'll count the Game of Thrones guys as one person, but this is the third instance now where filmmakers have directly cited the toxic idiots who sent death threats to RJ and racial abuse to cast members (who, like it or not, label themselves as SW fans), as the reason why they would be very reluctant from now on to do anything with SW, or any other fanboy-centric property. It’s not good and I genuinely think it hasn't even peaked yet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  12. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Heck knowing our fandom I WOULDN'T want to deal with us.
     
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  13. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    It's not even just Twitter either. YouTube has a lot of this stuff too.
     
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  14. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Oh, I haven't noticed that. I've seen people like myself say he might replace her after 2021, which I was clearly completely wrong about. I hadn't seen claims that she'd be fired, which is totally off base, considering she has a contract through 2021, and there would be no need. They can simply wait out the contract if they wanted her gone. Two years is nothing in the film business. But yeah, I don't think they do. The article suggested that they've still got her back.
     
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  15. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    And just to add, let's not forget that horrible people who call themselves fans are also, at least partially, to blame for George Lucas becoming disillusioned with the whole SW thing (yes, that George Lucas). There's a problem here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  16. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Lol, are you calling me toxic? I'm not sure if I would be insulted or flattered by that. :p In any case, I think the affect of "toxic fans" on LFL's development process is probably minimal. There is a bottomless well of hungry directors who would joyfully give up years of their life to make a Star Wars movie. The key is to find the right ones, which seems to be the trouble.

    To another topic, regarding the supposed "origins of the Jedi" subject of the canceled trilogy, that is a story I would absolutely love to see on the big screen, but I'm skeptical that LFL is in the right place to pull it off right now. I think they would need to turn over control to a director who's proven they can forge unique, sprawling creations without the heavy hand of a studio on their back, in other words, the opposite of what Marvel does. Del Toro would be my pick, although I worry Kennedy wouldn't be willing to give him full control. Peter Jackson could probably do it too, but he's got his own production studio and I doubt they want to incorporate after trying to move away from Bad Robot.

    Whatever happens, I hope it is an aesthetic departure from what we've seen in the past 4 films, which is a kind of retro OT look. My wish would be they look to the old Tales of the Jedi series for inspiration, something visually wild, lavish and fantastic. Whatever happens, the next few months sure will be interesting!
     
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  17. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Yeah, agreed. I just don't call those scumbags fans. I don't associate with that crap. I wish social media didn't give every idiot a voice to spill their bile all over the place.
    Yeah, I was just using twitter as an example. It's in all social media, and every fandom. Sadly, popular things also attract the lunatic fringe.
     
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  18. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    No, I'm not. I'm saying you're denying that it's a factor apparently. I don't think you're toxic.

    I think you overestimate how many people would want to go through that at this point. It's pretty vicious. For B&W it was apparently a factor.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  19. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I think having just been put through the very public wringer, I can see why they would want to avoid that kind of thing so soon after just dealing with it. I wish more people learned the meaning of "constructive criticism". It's one thing to have problems with a story, it's another thing to become a despicable jerk by how you express it.
     
  20. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    The GOT backlash was incredible I admit. I can't think of any franchise that was so overwhelmingly popular one month, and then a month later almost evaporated. And it wasn't like GOT's popularity was a flash in the pan either, it was HUGE, and slowly built up over years, decades if you consider the books. Now, it feels like ancient history. I think prequel project with Naomi Watts has been cancelled? I can absolutely see why B&W would get cold feet for jumping into another storied franchise with big expectations, but I don't know that the situation translates to other directors. Also, maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, but was the GOT finale backlash really that toxic? I remember that there was a lot of anger, people were pissed about how it ended, but I'm not sure when it qualifies as "toxicity" versus a passionate argument. Like, it's very easy to say someone is being ridiculous for getting upset over a fairy tale, but that doesn't make them necessarily toxic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  21. DarthFixxxer

    DarthFixxxer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    I am A Star Destroyer and I have no problem being swept under the toxic broom rug. That's only telling for people that use the toxicity master key excuse for everything.

    On topic, if B and W say they had to quit, it means they quit. Not sure how that is mutual. I have no reason to dispute what they said.
     
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  22. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    James Mangold has mentioned that this will probably become a problem. I think he'd have some insight into the issue. Also GL apparently felt a similar way. I don't think you can just handwave it away.

    Going after the creatives personally, their motivations, twisting stories against them and generally becoming vicious in your criticism is toxic I'd think. I think it's prevalent and a pretty terrible thing for fandom.

    Except the articles which were posted...
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  23. GregMcP

    GregMcP Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2015
    I wonder how far along their Birth of the Jedi trilogy was?

    If they had a story, and plenty of design, and negotiations with actors and directors etc, well, does it have to be thrown away?

    Get in a director and go ahead anyway.
     
  24. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    If the THR report is correct, they were still working on their treatment when they signed the Netflix deal, which was in August, so I don't think they got very far.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  25. DarthFixxxer

    DarthFixxxer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    You mean the articles where the only official statements other than the author's personal views are the statements made by B and W where they say they quit? Unless an official statement says that it was mutual, I'll go with that statement. I'm definitely not going for the "got fired" idea, which is pretty crazy since they had total support from LFL until just 2 months ago.
     
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