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Discussion UPDATED: Game of Thrones Creators NOT to Write/Produce a New Series of Star Wars Films

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Future Films - Spoilers Allowed' started by Diego Lucas, Feb 6, 2018.

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  1. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    No the authors sources which, given the publications, are reliable. It seems that it was probably mutual and then they quit, which is consistent with their statements I believe. It is curious that you are sticking so adamantly to the statements but were so skeptical upon RJ staying despite his statements.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  2. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Abusive personal attacks. Racist/sexist remarks. Generally despicable behavior toward the people involved, instead of keeping it about the issues you have with the work.
    This.^
    Don't be quick to be lumped in with the kind of people mentioned above. Being critical of a work doesn't mean you're toxic. And the people who are truly toxic represent the worst kind of behavior.
     
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  3. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    I wouldn’t mind if “Dawn of the Jedi” is reused again as a title if origins of the Jedi do play out on screen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  4. Blackhole E Snoke

    Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2016
    The problem is that 99% of the people are ones with fair criticisms though, with no malice at all towards anyone. And yet the media call it all coming from toxic fan/trolls. The media did the lumping.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  5. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    George Lucas originally didn't want to do a Sequel Trilogy.

    Then he made treatments for three.
    Have you BEEN on Twitter?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  6. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Have you seen some of the stuff on YouTube?
     
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  7. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    The media as well as other famous personalities have done a lot of lumping. That's why it's more important than ever for those of us with criticisms to not associate with that kind of behavior. Make it clear that our criticism is not an attack on people, and we don't approve of that crap.

    And to be clear, social media has made it easy to make these kinds of lumpings. People are being absolutely awful on social media.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  8. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Yeah, I think I get the general consensus around what qualifies as toxic. The fuzzy area is around discussing/questioning an artist's motives. I think there are a lot of fans, (not referring to anyone here obviously) who reflexively dismiss any personalized critiques of their favs as toxic, when actually it's been totally normal to scrutinize artists forever. Also, I think a lot of the time when industry people come out and publically lament toxic fans, it's not always clear whether the criticism they're condemning is actually toxic because they don't provide specific examples. If I remember correctly, James Mangold didn't do this when he complained about SW fans, he just broadly said the criticism had gotten out of hand. I could be wrong about that though, I can't find his exact comments. The reason I'm skeptical of it is because a lot of this art is being created by corporations that approach monopoly status. In particular, there is a very legitimate debate to be had over whether Disney's practices towards forcing theaters to hold their films at the expense of other studios is damaging to the medium. Fewer proportions of the public are actually going to see movies year after year, even as revenue gets concentrated to a handful of corporations. So while yes, toxicity is problem, I'm wary to let people in positions of power determine when it is real vs. perceived.

    Regarding the GOT situation though, I know that B&W bailed out of the comic con panel, but that seems more like an unwillingness to face legitimate criticism than toxicity. I can't imagine a more well-behaved borderline supllicating crowd than comic con, that's exactly why all the studios go there. And regarding TLJ and SW in general, yes there's been a lot of toxicity, especially where it crosses over with alt-light types, but from what I've seen, the VAST majority has been non-toxic, even when angry or questioning the personal motives of LFL.
     
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  9. Blackhole E Snoke

    Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2016
    I haven't seen anything too bad. Do you consider collider's deepfake Lucas videos toxic?
     
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  10. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Yes, but Disney is a corporate entity, not a person. Criticizing their business practices isn't the same as a personal attack. The general rule of thumb is to be critical of the work, and not make it personal.
     
  11. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    The reason why questioning an artists motives can easily spill over into toxicity is because it is both often based almost purely upon biased inferences and often doesn't actually have much to do with whether the art is good or not. It also easily becomes personal. This is obviously different then questioning whether or not a corporation has certain motives (the whole monopoly thing is a bit overstated, even though the trend is worrying).

    I think the general problem is that people don't now how to criticise these things without getting vicious. I can understand viciousness in politics, given the climate in the United States, but we have to remember that these are films. There isn't really a reason to get vicious at anyone.

    No not really, because they are light hearted. Have you honestly not seen the toxic videos from certain alt-right and/or anti-SJW fans?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  12. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    I think that's a completely valid line of questioning. The issue, however, is how people go about it. For example:

    "I think RJ should have relinquished the title of writer to someone else, and it's possible that him insisting on writing it may have something to do with his ego where he feels like he has to fill so many roles instead of delegating." - Seems like a valid line of questioning.

    "It's so clear that Rian Johnson hates the character of Luke Skywalker, and that he physically and creatively tortured Mark Hamill during production and enjoyed it." - Toxic

    Yeah, that's a super good point that I think should be brought up. But the vocal group of fans that I would consider 'toxic' don't talk about that.

    Someone isn't following @SW_takes on Twitter. That'll crush your spirit real quick.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  13. Blackhole E Snoke

    Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 26, 2016
    I watch the videos from the youtubers that get wrongly called alt-right, and they very often do what Pro Scoundrel said here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  14. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Such as?
     
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  15. guittarjedi

    guittarjedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Getting rid of Beniof and Weiss is great news. I never liked Game of Thrones. Star Wars isn't Game of Thrones, Star Wars isn't the MCU, Star Wars is it's own unique thing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  16. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Having lived in southern California most of my life and known lots of people in the industry, I can say that many of them do take it personally when their employer is criticized. And corporations might not be people, but they are groups of people, even if the most of them are just following orders.

    I guess my point is, in the case of B&W and with prospective directors in general, they know that LFL doesn't just want them to make a movie, they want them to promote it as well, to stake their personal reputations on it and to achieve love from the fandom. That's the model Abrams has put forward, and it's unreasonable on the part of the studio. Maybe it's inevitable given that each of them will get compared to Lucas, the ultimate independent film maker, but I think they are also enabling a standard that makes toxicity seem worse than it really is.

    This is 2019 my friend, not 2015. We should have all realized by now that politics is downstream from culture.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  17. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Who precisely if you don't mind me asking?
     
  18. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Or, there is really toxicity in the fandom. Something we've pretty much all known about since we became fans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  19. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Isn't this model inevitable though? It's how fans view the creatives, rightly or wrongly, and it's why filmmakers, I suspect, are fairly hesitant to 'have a go' as it were. Fans are the ones who are putting too much pressure on them.

    This has always been the caee. It doesn't make the reaction some fans have not excessive and toxic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  20. Blackhole E Snoke

    Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Geeks and Gamers haw been praising Kelly Marie Tran in more than one video recently, for example. Saying how nice a person she seems, and how it was only her character in TLJ who was awful, and anyone that attacked her for that is not welcome as part of the fandom menace.
     
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  21. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    I think the extent to which artists working for studios - whether directors or actors - are now expected to promote their movies (which are not actually theirs of course, they belong to the studio) has increased dramatically with social media, and it's primarily the fault of studios. I've heard so many stories (irl, not online) about the pressures faced not just by actors, but writers too, to maintain personal social media accounts which studios will expect to be leveraged towards promotion. That is work they won't get paid for, even before we question whether it's appropriate. It's become normalized where it's just part of hiring.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  22. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    OH BOY TIME TO GO DOWN THE G+G RABBIT HOLE.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  23. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    I'm sorry, but he may well have been on the right side of the KMT debacle, but that doesn't mean that he hasn't contributed his own amount of toxicity. He goes on these anti-SJW rants, he has gone after Brie Larson and Fiege for daring to disagree with his politics and he continues to spin stuff against RJ and KK. He actively spreads unreliable rumours, half truths and even lies, all for his own profit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  24. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Well often it is work that they get paid for as it's part of their contracts. Obviously the pressure to maintain a social media accounts is fairly unfortunate though. All of this just sounds like "well if they don't want people to be vicious they shouldn't be so prominent promoting their films". How about people just act rationally and in a civilised way?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  25. Blackhole E Snoke

    Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2016
    No doubt I shall now be banned again just for mentioning that channel [face_sigh]
     
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