CT Upper limit for the duration of the time Falcon spends in ESB asteroid cave?

Shaving is easy, most people can do that on their own. Cutting your own hair, that is a bit more tricky.
Unless you go for something simple like a very short buzzcut.
Not shaving is itchy so Luke would do that but why would he be concerned with cutting his own hair?
As I said, why groom himself while he is being trained? Would he care or would Yoda?

As for the MF, bathroom and shower yes, otherwise you would have a mess. But cutting hair is different.
You stay at a hotel, you have a bathroom and you can shave and shower. Cutting your own hair, again slightly harder.

And would Han and Luke cut their hair to be pretty much exactly like how it was before?

As I said, I doubt the filmmakers thought about any of this and just have the MF go to Bespin in what seemed a fairly short amount of time.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

Well, they could have machines or droids specifically designed for that, who knows?

No arguments here. This is something that isn't considered in most other films as well. Frodo and Sam spent at least half a year getting to Mordor. We don't see them having longer hair either.

 

I have no problem imagining 3P0 as a very accomplished barber and hair stylist.

 

But would Luke have brought one and would he be concerned with his looks while he is being trained?

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Actually having people grow beards or having longer hair is a fairly common film making device to establish passage of time.
Imagine if Luke would have a bit of a beard in the latter scenes with Yoda, that would be a quick way to establish that some time had passed.

Also was it six months in the films?
Gandalf said it would take them 40 days from Rivendell to the Gap of Rohan but they went through Moria which was quicker. And then they went by boat which was also quicker. So a month at most for the first film.

Bye.
Blackboard Monitor

 

I'm pretty sure it wasn't said in the movies. But as far as I remember, in the books Frodo and Sam left the Shire sometime in October, and the big final celebration in Minas Tirith was in May, probably only a few days after the Hobbits returned from Mordor. So that would make their journey roughly half a year. I only mentioned LOTR as an example that passage of time is often not properly reflected in movies.
Sure, Luke would not be much concerned about his looks when training. But why did he bother to shave then? After two days at most a while adult male would clearly look unshaven after a day or two. And it's impossible that he only stayed on Dagobah for only a few days.

 

The LotR films condensed the time-frame of the books quite a bit, 17 years passed between Bilbo leaving and Gandalf telling Frodo about the Ring.

As for why shaving, because after a few days of not shaving, it tends to itch.
So if Luke wants to be able to focus and not be bothered by an itchy beard, he would shave.
Longer hair matters less unless it starts obscuring your vision.

And again, look at the other SW films, how much time pass over the course of ANH or AotC?
Not all that much, a week or two maybe.
Again I doubt the filmmakers thought deeply about this but if they wanted to convey a long passage of time, have Luke grow a beard. That would clearly show that.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

Just a few points/queries from reading the thread.

* Do you take into account the asteroid the Falcon lands on is travelling and the speed and direction it's travelling in?
* We never see Luke's X-Wing engage its hyper drive engines but it is assumed it must've used them to get to Dagobah from Hoth and from Dagobah to Bespin. But because you don't see it we assume the Falcon doesn't make a hyper speed jump.
* Does time pass at the same equation on Dagobah as it does everywhere else? Could Luke have spent months on Dagobah but in reality to everyone else it was only weeks?
* Given it took Cloud City's maintenance people days to fix the Falcon, why would it take Han longer in the asteroid cave and he didn't fix it?
* The Imperial Fleet wasn't pummelled in the asteroid field but some Star Destroyers did suffer significant damage, there is no reason to assume all the SDs remained in the field all the time and two or three took turns sweeping the field.

 

True, but I think ESB is an exception. Luke could not have gotten all that training in just a few days. It normally takes a Jedi about ten years or more, in addition to starting at a young age. So how could Luke have gotten enough training to fight a former Jedi and now Sith as long as he did and still survive? I'm sure he wasn't on Dagobah for half a year, but at least it must have been a few weeks.

Well, as you said, Luke might have found a beard uncomfortable, so he shaved daily. No big deal, a razor isn't that heavy. Anyway, we are not told in any way in the movie how long he was there. All we can do is guess. Or did Lucas ever say anything on that topic? I think I never listened to the commentary track on the ESB DVD, if there is one.

 

When the Falcon leaves the Death Star and escapes the TIEs, the scene cuts immediately to Tarkin. We are not presented a jump to hyperspace, but the Alderaan System is logically not the Yavin System.

Hyperspace's starring role in the film, particularly the OT, is for dramatic purposes. It is introduced under exceptional circumstances. It is not given its starring role to explain routine interstellar transportation, although it does do that as a side effect. Narrow escapes are central to swashbuckling Flash Gordons and serials. A modern thriller might have the vulnerable good guy jump a train / aircraft / nautical vessel in the nick of time as it is pulling out and the scary bad guys cannot get him. The change of phase or state along a medium of rail, air or waterway communicates a separation of theatre or scene.

Since routine interstellar transportation was demonstrated in the service of a dramatic escape with an exceptional use of hyperspace, the groundwork is laid to elide depicting ships using hyperspace routinely to traverse Alderaan/Yavin IV, Hoth/Degobah, Degobah/Bespin.

 

It's far from impossible. Jedi training, much like space travel, moves only at the speed of plot. All that's required is that you, as an audience member, be convinced that Luke had enough time. As a child, I never once considered Luke had spent months on Dagobah, nor did I question how he acquired the requisite Jedi skills in only a few days. That's because the filmmakers did their job.

(The issue in the ST is not how little time Rey spent training as a Jedi, but how little effort the filmmakers put in to convince us that that time could be enough.)

 

A few weeks is what I thought. And that would not cause issues with hair growth nor with Boba sitting there for months slowly following the MF or Vader loosing patience.

As for how long he trained, given the PT and that normally a Jedi trains for something like almost two decades, then pretty much any time with Yoda is VERY short.
Even if we stretch time to a full year, that still has Luke learn what would take 15-20 years in 1/15th of that time.
So we will regardless end up with a situation where Luke has the most crash course imaginable when it comes to jedi training.

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Plenty of films, when they want to convey passage of time, have characters grow beards.
It is simple and effective.
My comment was a possible reason to why Luke might want to shave but not be as concerned with cutting his hair.

But as I've said, the filmmakers likely did not think about this in any detail. If they had and they wanted to convey a significant passage of time, then it would be very easy to do that. Have Luke grow a beard and have longer hair. Simple.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

Yes, I agree with this.

 

Something is Columbo bugging me.
Before the mynocks:

After Han has decided it is time to leave, Leia makes this observation:

As they are being chased by Avenger, Han says:

What is important here is that 3PO does not make any statements about why or how it is impossible to go to lightspeed / hyperspace. Han thinks that he has repaired the hyperdrive, at least apparently sufficiently, to go to hyperspace. Leia candidly has no doubt that they can go to hyperspace, if only they were free of the asteroid belt. The consequence of these facts as given in the script is that given enough time and enough calm conditions Han should at least in theory be able to get the hyperdrive back to operation, if only even a limping operation that still needs more permanent repairs later on.
After being dumped with the garbage, Han says:

There is no necessary and sufficient reason to break Star Wars lore, and to then require a clause that Star Wars is inconsistent in major things and therefore cannot be relied up on to have rule sets for major things.

1. 3PO had said

2. There is no one single catastrophic root cause than Han can identify:

3. There continues to be no one single root cause:

4. The task that 3PO was given to do, to all appearances, is finally achieved:

5. Corroboration that things are mechanically coming back together is found in:

What can the above possibly mean if it is not to provide a cue or citation to what the original crisis was, that, the hyper drive has stopped working? Han thinks he got the hyperdrive back into service.

6. So when the hyperdrive fails again and Leia says No lightspeed?, is there any legitimate objective detail in the film or script which prevents the suspicion or likelihood that Han can get the hyperdrive nominally functional, limping or in some emergency mode, given enough time? No. There is no reason to believe that Han is incapable of getting the hyperdrive nominally functional if he is given enough time.

7. The above , #6, is not contradicted just because of the existence of:

This, #7 in light of #6 merely means that Han got the hyperdrive functioning or limping, but in no condition for trying to evade the Empire as in better days. He got it working enough, and had enough luck, to slide into port.

This above does not obviously recommend any way to square up with Luke on Dagobah. Or to square up how long Boba Fett had to maintain a following distance. One method that is not off putting to me is that there were a number of successful hyperdrive limps to a new part of space, and just as easily a number of failed attempts, but Han incrementally got the Falcon closer and closer and closer to Bespin. Without breaking Star Wars lore that hyperspace is required to travel between systems. And this gives Luke time to train. If it was three weeks elapsed in both threads, let it be... several successful jumps, in between several or more failures, and that each successful jump covered 1/severalth the distance. There is no need for a backup hyperdrive. All the pieces are right in the script.

 

It would also make sense if hyperdrives were capable of multiple speeds and only some lower portion of them could be achieved with a partly broken hyperdrive.

 

Initial problem: Can't get it into first?
Subsequent, and ultimately persistent problem, which is the actual problem that requires putting it on a lift: Can't get it into second?

 

I think there's a new canon reference book out now somewhere that says places like Mortis, Ach-To and Dagobah have weird time distillation effects where things go much slower on that planet. Obviously a retcon but whatever.

Me? I'm totally fine Luke learned to be a Jedi, or a really close to being one, in a weekend. He's freakin' Luke Skywalker!

 

327 days. Or hours.

 

Lol. Well, I know that TESB's novelization said Luke had weeks to train with Yoda on Dagobah, given the dilemma those on the Falcon went through. We can see that Luke's clothes got quite dirty on that swamp world. But what gets me is that Han and Leia's clothes appear quite neat. I can't imagine them wearing anything else, but that's a long time to wear the same thing! Lando should have said, "Gosh, you guys stink!"

 

I'm sure the Falcon has a shower, at least. And even if there's no laundry on board, they could always rinse their clothes in a sink. Remember this was once Lando's ship, so probably had full dry-cleaning and pressing equipment for his capes.

 

For me the issue really isn't mechanics of learning which afterall didn't exist when ESB was made but also the idea that learning is actually happening, that Yoda is imparting knowledge and wisdom to him in a fashion that doesn't seem to happen as much with Rey.

Indeed I would argue the OT creates the impression that the greater part of the learning isn't in ability but rather wisdom which Luke is shown to be more lacking in. My image of the Jedi in the old republic was much less as a kind of special forces attached to the government and more mysterious sages working behind the scenes fostering peace and knowledge.

 

I was re-watching the deleted scenes for this section of ESB, and noticed something I hadn't before. While the Falcon is hiding in the giant asteroid, the Imperial bombardment slackens, and Leia says "I think they're moving away."

Two takes are featured on the Blu-ray, both of them with very poor-quality audio. One take has Han reply to Leia, "That'd be time to split." The other has him say "They're just trying to stir something up. We're safe." To which Leia replies sarcastically, "Where have I heard THAT before?"

So in one take Han agrees with Leia's implied suggestion that yes, the Imperial bombardment is lessening, so they should leave the asteroid. In the other he disagrees, saying no, the lessening Imperial bombardment is just a trick, and they're better off remaining inside.

 

Good catch. I recall some nice variation on the asteroid segment in the three or four separate drafts of ESB prior to theatrical.

 

I don't recall. Care to elaborate?

 

This scene you are citing (that I am not certain I ever saw - 'good catch') is from Scene # 289 of the Fifth Draft of 2/20/79. In the PDF that's page 96/172. I don't know where you get a copy but it's out there.

 

VADER
Asteroids do not concern me,
Admiral. I want that ship,
not excuses.