Uther Pendragon was the original Darth Vader?

Hello Fellow Star Wars Fans!
I am so excited about being part of theforce.net and the Jedi Council. Thank you.
I wanted to start a new discussion and hopefully get some feedback from fellow fans. As many of you, I grew up watching Ep. 4-6, and Empire was by far my favorite. I developed a fascination of Darth Vader, and though I truly enjoyed the prequels, (Ep. 1's political dialogue was very intriguing to me), and from what I have gathered from others, I found Anakin Skywalker's descent to the dark side a bit contrite.
So...where am I going with this, I was curious to find out if fellow fans like myself would be interested in a story strictly about King Arthur's Father Uther Pendragon? The similarities between Vader and Utehr Pendragon are built into the legend, Uther was a flawed King, betrayed his greatest General, he fell into darkness, and was redeemed by his son after his demise. He is even considered to be the chosen King of Britain in some versions of the Legend of King Arthur.
I was curious about fellow fans' thoughts.
Thank you for taking the time to read my thread. All feedback is welcome.
Sincerely,
Mike

 

There are as many different Uther Pendragons as there are versions of the Arthurian tale. Which Uther is definitive in your headcanon?

 

Thank you Sarge for responding to me. So...I don't really have a definitive Uther. I've read many different versions of the legend, and each one touches on his story, some making him an integral part, but I've really wanted to read a story strictly dedicated to Uther. I enjoyed The Once and Future King of course, and Mary Stewart's Merlin Chronicles are great reads as well, the Mists of Avalon is fun read too, but really dedicated to the female perspective of the legend more so than the male. Studying the Anglo-Saxon texts that are based on historical fact is very tedious but interesting all the same.
Do you have a preference, or a version of Uther you like?

 

After Boorman's Excalibur in 1982 (and prior to ROJ in 1983) a popular theory - given the story's similarities - had been that Vader (just like Uther) had taken the shape of Luke's father and Luke was the offspring of that one-night stand with Anakin's wife.

Up until ROJ Kenobi could plead "ignorance" about this lesser known "fact" but Lucas then decided not to follow Excalibur's suggestions.

 

I didn't know that, that's very cool. Thanks for the insight.

 

Indeed, Vader being the same person as Anakin Skywalker was something only presented as canon in ROTJ. (ESB has him say "I am your father," not "I am Anakin Skywalker.")

 

If i had to compare Anakin to one character of the Arthurian Myth, it has to be Lancelot.

His origins are shrouded in mystery ; from his early childhood, he was separated from his real parents, and raised to be the best, purest Knight And he did become such a grand character....until his treachery. Motivated by a forbidden love, he betrayed everything he was. This treachery caused deaths (sometimes wars), and is often considered to be the cause (or at least the precursor) of Camelot & King Arthur's downfall.

Some versions have him go consumed by madness when Guinevere eventually reject him : he disappear and roam aimlessly in the countryside, not to be heard again during several years.
(it is theorised this Lancelot could have been an incarnation of The Black Knight during that period, as strange parallels exist, and Lancelot was known to frequently wear a black armor)
Some versions even have him turn straight evil.
Still, most of the time, he eventually gets cured of his madness, and is offered redemtion.

Also worth noting, it is his son Galahad who, with the help of two noble companions, eventually finds the Grail.

 

Yes, in my headcanon, Anakin has much more in common with Lancelot than PT Hayden. He could have been the GFFA equivalent of Chaucer's perfect knight, and eventually lost patience with the lesser Jedi of the order who didn't measure up to his own standards of knighthood, resorted to quietly eliminating those he deemed unworthy, thus putting himself on the dark path. IMO, that could have been a more compelling story than the PT.

 

Excellent observations, and I agree, Lancelot's similarities to Vader in your headcanon are apparent-what with Ghalahad being the son that redeems his father. Who does Arthur parallel in the Star Wars saga then...I'm just curious.

 

The Arthurian similarities go way, way back, even to early drafts of the first film -- Ben Kenobi originally had a cyborg right arm, much like the one Luke later got. This detail was probably inspired by Sir Bedivere from the Arthur mythos, who in Celtic versions of the stories was depicted as having only one hand. (Bedivere of course was the only knight to survive the fatal Battle of Camlann, when Arthur's kingdom fell, and as such was the one tasked by Arthur to return his sword Excalibur to the Lady of the Lake.)

 

I still think Anakin's story fits loosely that pattern : you just need to replace "other Jedi are beneath me" by "Jedi are too high & mighty, and disconnected from the harsh realities".
Still, in both cases, the story falls flat if you don't show Anakin at his peak ... and the PT did just that : they showed "child Anakin", "(creepy) teen/squire Anakin" and "ready to fall Anakin", but forgot the best part.
(at least TCW reconciled me with the character, but it is sad to rely on a cartoon for that)

Well SW is not a direct translation of Arturian myth, so don't expect perfect match. Depending on your interpretation, you could say PT Obi-wan is the closest equivalent (as the close friend & mentor), but some could make a case for Mace Windu as well (as the King-like figure).

I'd even say they are the core of ANH (and SW in general) :
A righteous hero (a Jedi Knight in training) is on a quest to free a Princess, held hostage by the Black Knight in his lair... isn't that the bread & butter of Arturian tales ?

 

I agree the Arthurian legend and SW parallel each other immensely, and I enjoy the Lancelot similarities to Vader, and upon further investigation have found his story as well as the Green Knight's tale incredibly enjoyable. One version of the Arthurian legend had Lancelot as one of many mentors to Arthur, especially teaching him to wield the sword of power in war.
This being said, I do feel Uther Pendragon is merely an afterthought (a vessel for the High King), and I'm curious to see how the new King Arthur movie directed by Guy Ritchie depicts Uther, as Eric Bana is playing him. It's strictly my opinion, but I think their is more to Uther than being merely a vessel: I mean he did end up sticking Excalibur in the stone, plus he had to be given that sword for some reason.

 

I only know the character from syfy' s Merlin where he comes off more ignorant than evil

 

Like Sarge said, there are so many versions of the tales that it's hard to pin down one specific incarnation as being definitive. But the most popular English medieval version of the Arthurian legends, Malory's Morte D'Arthur, has Uther as a good king and hearty warrior who is unseated by his unchristian lust for his duke's wife. That doesn't really comport with Anakin's story. If Padme had been Kenobi's girlfriend whom Anakin stole away, the link would be more substantial.

I mean he did end up sticking Excalibur in the stone, plus he had to be given that sword for some reason.

Only in Excalibur. Prior to that movie, in all the old tales, Excalibur was given to Arthur after he broke the Sword from the Stone fighting against Pellinore. Uther never wielded either.

 

How do we know Obi-Wan and Mother Skywalker having a relationship wasn't the case in the prequels as planned out before 1999? The SW saga wasn't written in chronological order, popular conception on this board notwithstanding.

 

Apparently, that began with the "Post-Vulgate Cycle"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur

with there being some "Vulgate Cycle" works that portrayed the Sword in the Stone as Excalibur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancelot-Grail

 

To apply some rationalization to medieval myth: Merlin seems to have been trying to create the same kind of Golden Age with Uther that he later managed to establish for a time with Arthur. However, Uther, being driven to immorality by his desires (cf. his murder of Gorlois in order to seduce his wife Ygraine) proved rather a less worthy king for Merlin's purposes than Arthur would be later, which may be why the sword passed from him to his son.

(Of course, Arthur has his own issues with infidelity, most notably that time when he had sex with his sister and tried to murder the resulting child. But I digress.)

 

Unfortunately, this is one of those instances in which Wikipedia is flat wrong. The confused, passive tense phrasing in the section "Excalibur and the Sword in the Stone" makes it seem as though the two swords were the same in the Lancelot-Grail. However, this is not the case.

Below are the pertinent passages copied from a summary of the Lancelot-Grail from an academic website, the Lancelot-Graal Project, written by M. Alison Stones, Ph. D (see http://www.lancelot-project.pitt.edu/LG-web/TheStory-Summary.htm and http://www.mastones.pitt.edu/stones.html).

Arthur's claim to the throne is marked by his success in drawing a sword from an anvil, [...] Merlin leads him to the Lady of the Lake who presents him with another sword, Excalibur, whose scabbard will protect him [....]​

​

Stones, a Professor Emerita of History at the University of Pittsburgh, wrote that careful summary with a scholarly tone and enormous attention to detail. In any dispute between an anonymous wiki editor writing three or four lines of unclear text, and a professor of history who dedicated several years to overseeing this project with a number of other professors and historians using dozens of manuscripts, I'll side with the professor.

Here is the rationale for their project: http://www.lancelot-project.pitt.edu/lancelot-project.html#Rationale

In closing, I will stand by my earlier assertion that Excalibur was not the Sword in the Stone in any major medieval literary source. There may be minor, obscure poems which equate the two blades, but I'm not aware of them and would have to be shown specific examples. Boorman's film Excalibur (1981) was the first popular, widely known source to present the two swords as one.

 

Hi Mike,

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