Vader is a Failure in Palpatine's Eyes

I wonder what Palps thought of Vader during the OT. I mean, Vader dropped the ball a few times:

-Failed to kill Obi-Wan in ROTS
-Failed to find the stolen Death Star plans (ANH)
-Failed to find the rebel base by torturing Princess Leia (ANH)
-The 20 year Death Star project was destroyed under his nose
-Had to resort to use lowly bounty hunters to BARELY find the damaged Falcon in ESB
-He failed to bring Luke back to the Emperor in ESB
-Failed to defeat Luke with a lightsaber in ROTJ

I wonder what happened when Vader faced the Emperor after he screwed up. Did he punish him or yell at him or what? He's been a screw up his whole time as a Sith. No wonder Palps wanted Luke. I think the only time he did something good was when he found Hoth and destroyed the sheild generator (after everyone evacuated).

The Emperor even got pissy when Vader came to him on the Death Star in ROTJ to inform him that Luke went with the Rebel band to Endor. Palpy hissed something like "i thought i told you to remain on the command ship." Their relaitonship in the OT is a lot more cold and isolated than in the PT.

Does this change because Vader is less powerful after his injuries and isnt the same as Anakin was? Or is Vader/Anakin just incompetant and Palps is tired of it?

 

Although his success was a huge one. He went to the temple and wiped out the Jedi order from the face of Coruscant.

 

Yea, and he also wiped out the Trade Federation gang. But after the Emperor was already in power, it seems as if Vader was not as useful anymore, and that the Emperor just had to deal with him.

 

I think that Palptine is in love with vader

 

-Failed to kill Obi-Wan in ROTS

The Emperor too failed to kill Yoda.

-Failed to find the stolen Death Star plans (ANH)

I'll grant this one.

-Failed to find the rebel base by torturing Princess Leia (ANH)

Actually, thanks to Vader's plan, they did manage to find the Rebel base. [Scoody Doo villain]They could have destroyed it too, if it were not for that pesky kid, Luke![/Scooby Doo villain]

-The 20 year Death Star project was destroyed under his nose

Was it his fault the Emperor decided on a battle station that took twenty freaking years to build

-Had to resort to use lowly bounty hunters to BARELY find the damaged Falcon in ESB

Well, it got the job done, the Emperor shouldn't complain.

-He failed to bring Luke back to the Emperor in ESB

The Emperor himself in ROTJ wasn't worried, he had forseen that Luke will come to Vader.

-Failed to defeat Luke with a lightsaber in ROTJ

Meh, the Emperor himself didn't do any better, he should have killed Luke with the lightning. But noooo, he wasted time talking crap.

 

The Emperor even got pissy when Vader came to him on the Death Star in ROTJ to inform him that Luke went with the Rebel band to Endor. Palpy hissed something like "I thought I told you to remain on the command ship." Their relationship in the OT is a lot more cold and isolated than in the PT.

That's because Palpatine senses that Darth Vader is trying to replace him while Anakin Skywalker is returning to Vader's conscious. The confrontation with Luke on Bespin changed Vader and Palpatine knows it even if Vader refuses to admit it.

 

i dought it thats a little freky dude.

 

-Failed to defeat Luke with a lightsaber in ROTJ

The Emperor wanted Luke to beat Vader and take his place at the Emperors side. The Emperor failed by not turning Luke to the darkside.

 

I don't think Vader's not so much a failure in Palpatine's eyes as he is a disappointment. He did everything Palpatine wanted him to, but in the end, he lost so much of his power, he wasn't quite up to par with what Palpatine wanted. Still, he couldn't have been so much of a failure that Palpatine wanted to rid himself of Vader immediately. Even weakened, Vader's more powerful than a good percentage of the Jedi out there. It was only when a more powerful option became available - Luke! - came along that he even considered replacing his apprentice.

Otherwise, as far as the ROTS novel goes, Palpatine favored Vader above all others. Saw him as a treasure of the Sith and whatnot. Ian McDiarmid went as far as saying he portrayed the character as having a "soft spot" for Vader.

 

He may have failed many times later on,but the most important thing for Palpatine was(I think)that he managed to destroy all the jedi on Coruscant and then also the separatists.After that stuff was done the rest of it worked out relatively easily.But I think he probably was a bit disappointed in the way Vader turned out.Of course he wasn't nearly as powerful as Palpatine had hoped he would be after getting injured.But he was very loyal and did what he was told so Palpatine tolerated the failures.Until a better alternative came about,Luke of course.

 

I agree that Palpatine was very disappointed with Vader after he sustained his injuries on Mustafar.

Although he was also probably very thankful to find him alive.

 

I agree that Palpatine was very disappointed with Vader after he sustained his injuries on Mustafar.


Uh, no.
Sidious is thrilled with him if you judge him by his voice.
The fact that Anakn was still alive validated everything the Emperor had suspected about him.

 

Hey Darth Qui I was watching ROTJ early and was coming in here to reply on that VERY thing. I beleve they each wanted each other to be overtaken from the time he turned on by comments Vader makes to Padme and Obi-Wan on Mustafar and the condition Vader wasnt pleasing at all.

Also remeber its not like Darth Maul or Dooku did much better.

 

Darth Maul and Dukoo were only tools in order to catch Skywalker, so they don't necessarily count.

Its true that Vader did not do well after he had his suit, but he was still incredibly useful to the empire, and there wasn't a ready replacement available. Sure, if Admiral Ozzel turns out to be a rebel agent, Vader can toss him and there'll be a captain to take his place. But no-one could take Vader's place... until Luke came... in which the emperor had no problems with taking.

 

That was kind of my point about Luke coming along. Sidious' whole view changed drastically post outfit. He went from talking him up to Yoda about being more powerful then either of them to, hey here is his son, bet i could use him. Thats all i was saying. To a degree he was a failure. Palpatine would have used Maul,Tyranus or any Sith that got him what he wanted.

 

Hey look, it's another disgusting thread calling Vader a wossy and then kicking him in ass.

 

I think he thought so too. Anakin joined him in order to save his family, and when that family was gone, he thought he had failed. Whatever drive he had that was fueled by Sidious' teachings didn't matter to him anymore, Vader was just resigned to his fate (and unfortunately for everyone else, he was good at it).

Sidious knew he was planning to have Luke overthrow him...so his plan was to have Luke replace Vader, and just hope this apprentice didn't get barbecued and depressed like his last one did.

 

I'm sure the Emporer had some "d'oh" moments with Vader, but they are like peas in a pod, you can't seperate them. I have a feeling they will re-unite as glowies!

 

No.

When a sith becomes more powerful then there master they overthrow them. Do you really think Palpatine wanted Vader to gain more power? I do Not.



Master Jimbo

 

Good post Lurking_around.


I would say Palpatine is disappointed with Vader at times, I don't think Palpatine see's Vader as a failure. Look in ROTJ when Vader says,"I hope so commander for your sake, the emperor is not as forgiving as I am". Palpatine does not tolerate failure. I think Vader is successful enough through Palpatine's eyes, plus he has a soft spot for him no doubt. It's not like Palaptine asked him to do easy things, they were mostly all massive jobs, how long did it take Palpatine orginally to come to power and rule the Galaxy (a long time), Palpatine knows some things can't be taken care of straight away.

 

Vader was not a failure and he was indeed a very powerful Sith ... Sidious wasn't replacing Vader because he wasn't powerful, but because he is powerful ... Sidious sees Vader, as he sees all his apprentices', as a tool and he doesn't want to end up like Plaugius, murdered in his sleep

 

"Vader was not a failure and he was indeed a very powerful Sith ... Sidious wasn't replacing Vader because he wasn't powerful, but because he is powerful ... Sidious sees Vader, as he sees all his apprentices', as a tool and he doesn't want to end up like Plaugius, murdered in his sleep"

I'm sorry, I can't resist. WRONG, WRONG WRONG!!!!! Sidious does want Vadedr to be more powerful than him self. He was replacing Vader becuase he wasn't as powerful. And he doesn't worry about ending up like plaqueis.

 

ah, darth plaqueis! a name befitting of a sith lord with rotten teeth.

 

and why wouldn't Sidious fear ending up like Plaugius? Vader even plots with both Padme AND luke about overthrowing the Emporer!!! The Sith have and will always plot and betray eachother, that was why there came the "Rule of Two," because thousands of generations before, the Sith numbered in the tens of thousands like the Jedi (E.U.) but fought and murdered eachother for power ... like Palpatine said, all who gain power are afraid to lose it ----> especially Palpatine ... once Sidious learned all he needed from Plaugies, he no longer needed him ... and the same would happen for Vader when he no longer needs Palpatine .... was Darth Tyranus (Count Dooku) a failure in Sidious' eyes in ROTS? no, he did everything Sidious asked and didn't fail as far as we know ... he just doesn't want Tyranus to become the master and knows that the young and nieve Anakin is loyal to him to a point ... but even loyal Anakin, who views Palpatine like Luke views Obi-Wan, begins to plot as Vader gains power ...

 

If Palpatine is afraid of being overthrown, why go for Luke, an obvioulsy stronger warrior than Vader. Vader in his current state had no chance of overthrowing the Emperor. But if Vader had been destroyed and Luke taken his place, it is a lot more likely that Luke would have overthrown the Emperor. Do the Sith really want their apprentices to become better then themselves, or do they enjoy a little seperation of power abilities? Because Sidious definately had an edge on Vader, why trade him in?