CT Vader's loyalty?

Why in Return of the Jedi did Vader seem to be a lot more loyal to Palpatine than he did in Empire, seeming to abandon his idea of him and Luke overthrowing the Emperor? Or did he abandon it or retain it, just being less open about it because he was physically closer to the Emperor? He acts submissive to the Emperor even when just talking to Luke but maybe he had to so the Empire wouldn't sense his treachery in reading either his or Luke's thoughts.

I think it's probably just that Lucas changed his mind on the character, wanting him to seem a little less evil and ruthless throughout Jedi and thought him wanting to betray his boss was too evil. Maybe he later changed his mind again, though, since with the prequels the Rule of Two concept and thus likelihood of Sith betrayal seems pretty important to how you're supposed to interpret the interaction of the three in RotJ.

 

I think you have it exactly right: it was a change in the writing & ideas between the two films. The story conference between Lucas, Larry Kasdan, Richard Marquand, and Howard Kazanjian even mentions this as an issue with the story of ROTJ.

One might say that it came about as a result of Lucas processing the implications of having made Vader Luke's father in the previous film.

 

It's partly a result of the changes in the writing between the films, and partly Vader being less open/more conflicted about his intentions.

As you say, the idea of the Sith betraying each other and wanting to overthrow their own master, is something that Lucas has talked a lot about (and is clearly seen in the films: starting with the Tale of Darth Plagues, and following by Anakin's wish to overthrow the Emperor, and later with Vader's offer to Luke). Obviously, this is not something that Lucas "forgot" when writing Return of the Jedi (and in fact, it's very prominent in the early scripts of Jedi).

As the script developed, they found that Vader having his own agenda, and not being clearly sided with the Emperor, was problematic for several reasons. For once, it would give away the ending; a silent, less active, more ambiguous Vader worked better to hide the fact that he would turn to the light side indeed. Furthermore, Lucas wanted the reveal to be that Vader was a pathetic, scarred, enslaved old man, and this conflicted with a powerful portrayal of Vader with a quest to overthrow the Emperor himself.

The final result, as I read it, is that Vader, who gave his game away in Empire when he made his offer to Luke, is seemingly back serving the Emperor. Luke's refusal, and his determination to save his father have shattered Vader's confidence. He can feel that Luke is stronger than him now, wiser and more confident. A better man than he ever was. Vader can see his old self reflected in Luke, and admires that Luke can resist temptation when he couldn't.
It would be foolish to make the same offer again to Luke. He has to hide his true intentions (he insists angrily that "there is no conflict" in front of the Emperor). Probably, part of Vader hopes that Luke will succeed and kill the Emperor. Another part of Vader probably hates himself for his failure and for being trapped by the Dark Side. He realizes that he is weak, that he was wrong when he trusted the Emperor. And another part of Vader is trying to lie to himself again, to convince himself that he is really devoted to the Dark Side (he hasn't had anything else to support himself for over twenty years), and that he is strong enough to fight Luke, and to convert him, because that will show Luke (and himself) that there truly isn't a way of escaping the Dark Side.
So, we have a veeeery conflicted Vader in Jedi, who is hiding his own conflict (which Luke can sense) from himself and from the Emperor. And that's a fascinating situation for the viewer, because we can never see his face. We can guess what he is feeling behind the mask, but we could be entirely wrong. Maybe Luke is right and Vader is conflicted and will help him. But it's equally possible that Luke is wrong, and that Vader won't save him from the Emperor.

In my opinion, ROTJ Vader is a far more interesting (though underplayed) character than the apparently badass version of Empire.

 

Vader was just really really tired and wanted a week off.

 

This is a criticism I share regarding Vader's portrayal in ROTJ compared to TESB. The way I see it, however, his compliance to the Emperor was accompanied by the ultimate goal of continuing his plans with Luke that included Palpatine's death, but Vader was smart enough to recognize that he could not convert Luke to the dark side alone.

As far as his conflict goes, I think it began immediately after Luke's initial refusal to join him. Here was an opportunity for a familial connection that Vader had to a degree longed for all along, but he had forgotten it due to his long years of service to the Empire.

If Vader wouldn’t obtain that family bond by Luke joining the dark side, then the other option would be for him to turn to the light side again. Vader had grown settled in the dark side by this time, even genuinely believing in it by the time of the OT despite his initial motives for joining.

But seeing Luke’s desire to change him for the better did indeed cause Vader to wonder whether his path remained with the dark side.


This arc was effective and believable enough, but I do wish we’d seen more snarly, intimidating Vader in ROTJ. I loved that about him in TESB, making him in that movie one of my favorite villain portrayals ever.

 

Vader states that Luke is the key to defeating Palpatine, which he cannot do on his own. So he has to be subservient again, because doing otherwise would be detrimental to his goals. In an early draft, Lucas did have Vader conflict with Jerjerrod and Palpatine questioned his loyalty to him. Lucas decided to go with a more subtle version of this, by having Vader continuing to serve Palpatine, but he needs him in order to achieve his goals.

 

This is kind-of addressed in the ROTJ novelization by James Kahn. Vader was genuinely surprised at how Luke rejected his (to him) reasonable and smart offer in TESB. So, he's less motivated to knock off Palpatine and take over, as he is to convince Luke that the Dark Side is the right choice to make. His primary goal is the show Luke (and himself) that he (Vader) was correct in his choices. Once he'd done that, teaming up to take down the Emperor would come later, after a bit of guidance.

 

You kind of see that in the original version of ESB with his "Bring me my shuttle" line and delivery.

 

It’s also easier to feel and act like a tough badass when the one guy you’re most afraid of isn’t either in the next room, or a short shuttle flight away.