Visual Storytelling at its greatest: In depth analysis.

These cheesy things in TPM and AOTC? Well, they don't work. They're random and arbitrary gimmicks concocted for Fanboy, not becuause they're thematically enriching.

That's your opinion and we respect that it is your opinion. If you think that your opinion is an actual indisputable FACT, then I suggest you post your proof. There is a whole thread here that says otherwise and have stated their reasons which - whilst being nothing more than opinions - are grounded by their pairing of statements, examples and the satisfied responses of other people on this thread. This DOESN'T make your opinion any less valid, but it would probably be appreciated if you joined the game with reasoning and examples of your own (especially those based beyond box-office money-making which YOU have admitted as to not being the be-all and end-all of measuring the validity of a film).

(And I want to quickly note that I'm 99% sure that pretty much all of these 'comparsion shots' you guys have posted are actually just coincidential. Like I said, I could do the same thing comparing There's Something About Mary and Braveheart.)

Hang on a second...you just said this:

Hey, I'll take your word for it that there were shots that were very similar in Titanic and some other movie about the ship....and I'll even assume that those similarities were intentional.

You're willing to take MY WORD that James Cameron's "homages/ripoffs" were intentional, but you're NOT willing to believe that the cinematography similarities and story-structual parallels in the SW Saga are intentional? Even though Lucas himself has cited (see PT and OT SW DVD commentary tracks), time and again, that the films (including the OT) are presented in a structure that intentionally mirror each other and mirror the two halves of the saga???



You're pulling my leg right?

And you mentioned all the similarities between Terminator and Terminator 2. - the shot of Sarah Connor accepting the outstretched hand of her savior; the "Get Out" line. Hey, the same thing stated above applies here:

It just f-ing worked. There's nothing more you can say about it.

Yes I can Post your proof that the SW PT thematic riffing (or ripoffs if you want to call them) DON'T work. There's a thread of people right here who think that it does. The box-office tallies YOU'VE PRESENTED which show, without a shadow of a doubt, that the prequels are financial successes are proof that it worked.

You can't use your "perceptional tastes" to prove your points nor can you use it to disprove ours. Every single friend in my life right now thinks that "Titanic" was the biggest load of rubbish ever to come out of the American film market. My film lecturer thought that "Terminator 2" was a lame and uninteresting cash-in on the original film. You can't dispute that those people are wrong because you can't prove to anybody here that your tastes or perceptions are "more right" than theres. It's all just opinion.

The sheer existence of "prequel gushers" proves that those elements in the films worked for some people (and didn't work for others) just as "Titanic" and "T2" worked for some people and didn't work for others. Look at "The Abyss"...brilliant film, a modern classic, studied now in film schools....complete box-office BOMB. Had no "legs" at all. How do you explain that?

Look at the 1998 US version of "Godzilla"! How many Godzilla-fans out there think that the American film was hard done by? How many gushers are there for that movie? NONE. The film sucked and the public reacted. Even retrospectively the fans are still not easy to forgive it.

Compare that to the number of people who visit all the prequel and saga-based forums on these boards...different story mate.

And watch the language dude, what's got you so riled up?

Contrast that with AOTC which, naturally, had a HUGE opening week....and then the theaters were more empty than an 'Armstrong Williams on Ethics' seminar. It had NO legs. It was the anti-Napole

 

I really have difficulty trying to summon much respect for the opinion of someone who suggests that any point of view which doesn't correspond with his/hers is the sign of intellectual inferiority or weak-mindedness. No one opinion is more correct than another, just different. The fact that this tiresome "American People Didn't Like 'AOTC' - Look At The Dismal Box-Office" issue is regurgitated to no end, and is (for me) starting to become on par with hearing "Livin' La Vida Loca" by Ricky Martin, played repeatedly without pause for days on end, further suggests that the bottom of the barrel has been reached and clawed at quite vigorously for some time now. I am surprised that no one has bloody fingernails.

It just f-ing worked. There's nothing more you can say about it.

Although I do believe you to be a person of great intellience, DBrennan3333, and wasn't attempting to placate you last time I mentioned it, that statement is pretty thin. And I enjoyed "T2". I suggest that you listen to NZPoe, whose apparent wisdom should be regarded with more respect.

There are many specific visual references throughout the "Star Wars" saga (yes, that includes Episodes 1 and 2 as well). Let's list some of them:

"The Searchers"; "Triumph of the Will"; "Lawrence of Arabia"; "The Seven Samurai"; "The Big Sleep"; "Seven Chances"; "Citizen Kane"; "Trouble in Paradise"; "The 7th Voyage of Sinbad"; "The Maltese Falcon"; "Jason and the Argonauts"; "The Wizard of Oz"; "The Hidden Fortress"; and so on.

Does the fact that there are sly references to other films make a picture such as "The Phantom Menace" good? No, not inherently. However, it does suggest that there is a more complex, underlying visual and thematic subtext to the film. A common statement, such as "oh, it's just superficial eye-candy", starts to become more questionable. Lucas certainly isn't the first director to reference other films; in fact, most directors routinely pay homage to some of the great masters. This isn't a sign of creative bankruptcy; it's more of a commonplace directorial flourish. Consider this scene, which is from the opening passage of Spielberg's "Saving Private Ryan": In a disoriented manner, a soldier who has had his arm blown off reaches down to the ground to recover the dismembered appendage . A short, but memorable scene, which probably owes equal amounts to Samuel Fuller ("The Big Red One" - yes, Mark Hamill is in it), and Akira Kurosawa ("Ran"). That is merely one of many, many film references employed by Spielberg throughout the course of his film. There is an old joke which states that this notion of referencing others' work, while considered "homage" in cinema, is in literature called "plagarism". Make of that what you will.

 

hi

this is my first ever post here!
ive been a member at starwars.com since jan 2002 & loved this site for a long time but just never got around to registering with the boards

id just like to say its this thread that has made all the difference

keep up the good work guys-post some more pics soon!!!

 

Welcome to the boards DarthWolvo I hope you enjoy your stay. And please don't base your opinion of the boards on crazy people like me...other people here are a lot more sane than I pretend to be

 

Contrast that with AOTC which, naturally, had a HUGE opening week....and then the theaters were more empty than an 'Armstrong Williams on Ethics' seminar. It had NO legs. It was the anti-Napolean Dynamite. It was the Bizarro version of Shrek 2.

Napoleon Dynamite and Shrek 2? Hey, now if you wanna talk about two movies that REALLY suck...

And hey, at least James Cameron doesn't pretend that he had T2 planned out while he made the first one.

Yeah, probably because Harlan Ellison had planned out the first one to begin with.

By the way, I'd like to take note: most of Cameron's successes are based on the work of others. The Terminator films are based on Ellison, Aliens is based on the original Alien by Ridley Scott, and Titanic is based on accounts of the sinking of the unskinkable ship, as well as any number of sappy love stories.

Oh, and one more thing: An Armstrong Williams reference? My God in heaven, you need a hug.

 

NZPOE,
Great images, but better than that was the verbal bodyslam of a certain basher.

 

Contrast that with AOTC which, naturally, had a HUGE opening week....and then the theaters were more empty than an 'Armstrong Williams on Ethics' seminar.

I suggest doing your research before you make yourself look like you're reaching for reasons to criticize the film (which you are). The box office figures from Box office mojo.com:

May 17?19: #1 $80,027,814 for a total of $110,169,231

May 24?27: #1 $60,003,949 for a total of $201,309,716

May 31?Jun 2: #2 $21,002,876 for a total of $232,324,769 (this is the weekend Spiderman came out, and it STILL pulled strong numbers).

Jun 7?9: #3 $14,011,713 for a total of $255,106,352

The film would go on to make about $302,000,000 at the box office, and then an additional $8 million from the I-Max release bringing the total up to $310,000,000. Yeah, what a dud.

Do your research before you make such remarks. The film was a financial success, deal with it.

Now, back to topic:

This is really great you guys. Keep up the great work. I especially like the comparison pics of Anakin seeing his mother dying and Luke watching his father die.

Let's get more of these up now!

 

Star Wars is a display of the movie visual, both past and present, a live action homage to every camera trick in the film history book as well as a forum for whatever the cutting edge is in f/x, f/x editing, and camera at the time of each particular installments release. From the opening scroll right until the end. It makes sense since its first a mythology of movies and then a mythology of peoples. Calling it " eye candy " is a tremendously misleading broadstroke. Its the ultimate " eye candy " to be sure, but there is serious genius and respect to movies in every single shot in every single film.

 

It's too complex to be "eye candy". "Eye wine", though, I'd say is acceptable. Just give it a little while to age.

 

Yeah, thats a good one Prefect! Eye Wine. I like it!

 

Wait. Are you chewing gum?

 

some1 post some more of these great scene comparissons- we cant let this froum die!!!

 

*BUMP*

 

Hey, once I get the hang of posting pictures, you can count on me to offer some pure, balls-to-the-walls interpretive insight.

In the meantime: Can't let this thread touch the ground!

 

www.photobucket.com!

USE IT!

 

jedi_ford_prefect, u any closer to posting those pics yet???

 

I would do it, but the last time I tried it said my video card was messed up....ahh.

I need a new comp.

 

Although it is quite obvious, I didn't notice this visual quotation posted anywhere within the five pages of this thread. In the respective images in "Attack of the Clones" and "The Empire Strikes Back", both Anakin and Luke move one appendage closer to becoming "more machine than man".

AOTC:
[image=http://img117.exs.cx/img117/7385/pdvd0128at.png]

ESB:
[image=http://img77.exs.cx/img77/6760/pdvd0300fk.png]

The next references come from the prequels. Notice the very specific way that both the Droid and Clone Armies enact a formation; these shots not only correspond, but are lifted from Leni Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the Will" (1935). "Triumph of the Will" is a Nazi propoganda film much lauded for its artistry, but deplored for its "thought". The rows of Droids and Clones in the respective images bring to mind the formations of the SS officers in Riefenstahl's movie. Could Lucas be making a subtle suggestion that the Empire's control is not unlike the totalitarian government of Nazi Germany? Hmmm.....

TPM:
[image=http://img117.exs.cx/img117/1596/pdvd0214nx.png]

AOTC:
[image=http://img117.exs.cx/img117/972/pdvd0064ix.png]



More images from "The Phantom Menace" and "Attack of the Clones": These are battle shots from the end of the two prequels which nicely compliment one another. There is a visual and thematic progression from the first battle of Naboo in "Menace", which features the Gungans against the Trade Federation Battle Droids, to "Clones", in which the conflict has escalated, and therefore the combatants have become more skilled (Droids vs. Clones). Lucas makes a visual connection in the two films by creating similar types of shots, while employing a different, more foreboding color scheme.

TPM:
[image=http://img117.exs.cx/img117/8398/pdvd0252cb.png]

AOTC:
[image=http://img117.exs.cx/img117/6001/pdvd0091zt.png]

[image=http://img117.exs.cx/img117/9273/pdvd0110bh.png]

The following was requested by MissPadme some pages back, and since I was making some screen caps as it was, I thought that I would oblige. This is pretty straightforward: we have corresponding images from the endings of both "Attack of the Clones" and "The Empire Strikes Back" - In the first, Padme shoots at Dooku's Solar sailer from the Geonosis Hangar platform, while in the second, Leia blasts Boba Fett's Slave 1 from a landing platform on Cloud City.

AOTC:
[image=http://img117.exs.cx/img117/3846/pdvd0167ev.png]

ESB:
[image=http://img77.exs.cx/img77/9549/pdvd0272cx.png]

Finally, we have the obligatory "group pose" which tends to constitute one or more of the final images of the "Star Wars" films. Notice how the last shot in "Clones" appears to be an inverted version of a similar composition from the closing moments of "Empire"; also of note, besides the fact that the droids are present in both images, is that in "Clones" we have a shot of husband-wife, while in "Empire" we have brother-sister.

AOTC:
[image=http://img117.exs.cx/img117/5564/pdvd0197ql.png]

ESB:
[image=http://img77.exs.cx/img77/751/pdvd0316nt.png]

Please feel free to discuss these shots posted above.

NOTE: Shall I post some more tomorrow or the next day?

 

please please post some more

i find this thread to be the best on the whole forums

 

I certainly agree w/ the loss of limbs being symbolic for the loss of humanity.

As far the clones and battle driods.......didn't the Trade Federation march play during that scene?? I think that says it all.

 

Tyrannus the Hut, I have been anticipating for a long time to see the shot with Padme and Leia. Thanks a bunch!

What is interesting is that right behind Leia (wearing white) would be Stormtroopers (obviously from opposite sides); while with Padme also wearing white shooting at Dooku's solar sailor with the Clones who are from the same side!

 

John Ford's 1956 film "The Searchers" is the subject of a number of homages in the "Star Wars" saga. Here, let's examine both "AOTC" and "The Searchers" shot by shot in two key sequences (there are "Searchers" references in "A New Hope" as well, but someone else has already posted them). Although this isn't specifically inter-trilogy (as presented below), this seemed like an appropriate forum in which to examine this, due largely to the fact that large image posts are not encouraged in the respective prequel trilogy forums. (NOTE: The shots are grouped in two's, with the exception of the final group of images, which includes three).

AOTC:
[image=http://img138.exs.cx/img138/6234/pdvd1253ww.png]

THE SEARCHERS:
[image=http://img170.exs.cx/img170/1050/pdvd0376if.png]


AOTC:
[image=http://img138.exs.cx/img138/7451/pdvd1265dj.png]

THE SEARCHERS:
[image=http://img170.exs.cx/img170/2514/pdvd0340bs.png]


AOTC:
[image=http://img101.exs.cx:81/img101/266/pdvd1522dw.png]

THE SEARCHERS:
[image=http://img101.exs.cx:81/img101/2817/pdvd1500jg.png]


AOTC:
[image=http://img138.exs.cx/img138/5569/pdvd1274ik.png]

THE SEARCHERS:
[image=http://img233.exs.cx/img233/1525/pdvd0393vl.png]


AOTC:
[image=http://img220.exs.cx/img220/1144/pdvd1290fc.png]

THE SEARCHERS:
[image=http://img233.exs.cx/img233/8755/pdvd0425bt.png]


AOTC:
[image=http://img220.exs.cx/img220/5250/pdvd1304wn.png]

THE SEARCHERS:
[image=http://img233.exs.cx/img233/6041/pdvd0452xo.png]


AOTC: Notice the way that the shot from "The Searchers" features a kneeling Jeffrey Hunter - this is, of course, much like the (close) shot of Hayden kneeling before his mother's grave in "Attack of the Clones" (hence the extra image).

[image=http://img220.exs.cx/img220/291/pdvd1317pc.png]
[image=http://img220.exs.cx/img220/307/pdvd1324sx.png]

THE SEARCHERS:
[image=http://img170.exs.cx/img170/3475/pdvd0327ye.png]

 

More inter-trilogy visual quotations, with a couple of specific references to classic movies included for good measure. Please discuss these at you leisure.

Considering that the Obi-Wan arc in "Attack of the Clones" is primarily derived from old pulp detective serials, it would make sense for Lucas to cite a classic of the genre.

THE BIG SLEEP:
[image=http://img138.exs.cx/img138/2434/pdvd1214sq.png]

AOTC:
[image=http://img138.exs.cx/img138/5852/pdvd1222ri.png]

The following is a visual connection between the Anakin-Dooku saber-duel in "Clones" and the Luke-Vader showdown in Cloud City at the end of "The Empire Strikes Back".

AOTC:
[image=http://img220.exs.cx/img220/7296/pdvd1398vl.png]

ESB:
[image=http://img232.exs.cx/img232/6459/pdvd1467ux.png]

AOTC:
[image=http://img151.exs.cx/img151/5339/pdvd1408fo.png]

ESB:
[image=http://img151.exs.cx/img151/2329/pdvd1421uc.png]

During a sequence in "Clones" which preceeds Obi-Wan's capture on Geonosis, Lucas finds an opportunity to tip his hat towards Orson Welles.

AOTC:
[image=http://img220.exs.cx/img220/9729/pdvd1336xg.png]

CITIZEN KANE:
[image=http://img232.exs.cx/img232/9756/pdvd1471jr.png]

Finally, a very obvious connection between the much-maligned Droid Factory sequence in "Clones", and a climactic scene aboard the Death Star in "A New Hope". Once again, we are confronted with the contrast between the parents and their children. Interesting.

AOTC:
[image=http://img220.exs.cx/img220/6987/pdvd1355dk.png]

ANH:
[image=http://img232.exs.cx/img232/3880/pdvd1483qy.png]

I apologize for the AOTC-ESB centricity of my recent posts in this thread. I am currently working on some things which will include all of the other films (thus far) in the saga. Feel free to discuss these above images in a manner most convenient to you.

 

Made a little chart here, it's not as refined as i want it to be, but that's because i'm waiting on "the other" Episode to finish it.

[image=http://img45.exs.cx/img45/5475/generations26ea.jpg]

Thanks to all who contributed.....even if they didn't know it

 

Obi-Frans,

On your chart you have the Luke/Leia "blanket" scene from ANH. How about matching that with the Anakin/Padme "blanket" scene from TPM?