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Visual Storytelling at its greatest: In depth analysis.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by _dArTh_SoLo, Sep 17, 2004.

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  1. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189160293/gallery_272_13719.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191832928/gallery_274_21158.jpg]
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    Yoda and Luke depart the Senate Building, and Cloud City, respectively.

    Repeat motifs aplenty, and mostly reverse framings - lefts vs rights; towards the viewer vs away from the viewer; ups vs downs.


    -JR :)
     
  2. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Fantastic stuff on the previous page, Mandroga.
    I'd never noticed the below before, so thanks!

    -JR :)
     
  3. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    You're more than welcome, my friend. :)

    Indeed, Vort.

    I have always been one to have a lot of faith in the fact that George knew what he was doing when he set about making the PT, because as the movies came out, the 'rhymes' were very much there to see. But the scary part about it, is the LEVEL of detail that is inbuilt into these 'couplets'.

    The more you analyse, the more and more you see!


    -JR :)
     
  4. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191833125/gallery_274_15560.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191833217/gallery_274_5938.jpg]
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    In-Episode repeat motif: Luke Descends Into The 'Cave'

    Even within a single episode, George/Irwin still manage to reverse nearly every single one of the frames within the repeat motif. Only in the final three frames presented here does the image not reverse; instead they are just almost identical.

    The parallel between the two 'confrontations' with Vader is interesting, as in the initial one on Dagabah, Luke is aware that he makes a failure at the cave; a failure pointed out by Yoda before the young Skywalker rushes of to meet destiny, and his father.

    In the second confrontation, Luke has come to Cloud City believing that he 'has learned so much since then' [at the cave], and believes that he is ready to face Vader. Having just dispatched Vader over the side of the carbon freeze area, he descends again into the metaphorical 'cave' and of course fails again, until that final decision to turn away from Vader's temptations.


    -JR :)
     
  5. Vortigern99

    Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2000
  6. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002

    Your Father Wanted You To Have This....

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189160293/gallery_272_20870.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189160293/gallery_273_564.jpg]
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    This one definitely speaks for itself, but I just have to add that I love the fact that in the comparable shots which include Anakin and Luke - as Obi-Wan climbs up the hill, and climbs out of his seat, respectively - we see a LIMBLESS Anakin, bar his robotic RIGHT arm in the first, and in the second, we see Threepio who earlier had ALL his limbs, bar his robotic LEFT arm, just having said limb re-affixed by Anakin's son Luke.

    And we all know about Lucas's comparing of Anakin and Threepio throughout the PT.

    Another beautiful reverse-repeat-motif.


    -JR :)
     
  7. DarthWolvo23

    DarthWolvo23 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2005
    while I'm really glad there is activity in this thread, virtually all these have been done before if you check through the thread.
     
  8. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    I really like the parallel between the Anakin/Palpatine and Luke/Obi-Wan relationships, both visually and thematically. I think it suggests a couple of different interpretations... but ultimately a kind of complex one about the power of older people/mentors to impress certain things upon people. I mean, I know some fans find Obi-Wan's useage of Luke to be not really different from Palpatine's of Anakin. I do think it's meant to invite the comparison and the question, but ultimately I don't think it's the same thing. The visuals on it are striking, though.

    [hl=darkred]-sj loves kevin spacey[/hl]
     
  9. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    I very much DID check back through the thread before I made those 8 posts over the last two days, Wolvo. I went through the ENTIRE thread.


    [blockquote]? The comparison pics of Anakin/Padme and Han/Leia that I posted for MasterLuke83 are NOT posted in this thread. I also added a little commentary, discussing the framing.


    ? The second post I made, comparing the shots of Anakin/Padme and Luke Leia, are also nowhere to be seen in this thread as a COMPARISON. Both shots have been posted, but have been compared to OTHER shots. I also added a commentary on the framing.


    ? In the third post I made, comparing the final shots of each trilogy's 1st, 2nd and third chapters, I was VERY careful to point out that whilst these had been posted before (although, in actuality, the ROTJ comparison is nowhere to be seen in here), I was posting them again to add a commentary to each of the pairings. A commentary that I also find nowhere in the thread.

    In light of the fact that this thread title includes the phrase 'In Depth Analysis' within it, I felt that this was completely valid, and hoped that it would be adding something to the discussion.


    ? The fourth post, about the metaphorical intent behind George's positioning of Jar Jar and Anakin behind the glass door of Palpatine's office, is ALSO nowhere to be found across the 66 pages.


    ? In the fifth post - the fleeing of Fett/Dooku at the end of Eps 2/5 respectively, there has been one shot comparison from the series that I posted, and it has been posted twice. But in BOTH cases, the shot comparison was a DIFFERENT one of Padme/Leia than the ones I posted.

    I also posted the ENTIRE series of shot comparisons from those two scenes, to give a much bigger impression of the repeat motif being used by George.

    I also gave a complete analysis of the reverse framing in the entire series of shots, rather than just posting them side-by-side.


    ? In the sixth post I made, in which the comparison is made between Luke and Yoda's departing the Senate Chamber and Cloud City, again, only two shot comparisons reside within the entire thread, and in BOTH of those cases it was different, out of sequence, shots being compared.

    Again, I posted the ENTIRE sequence, to show just how similar it in fact is, and also commented on the reverse framing.


    ? My seventh post - the in-episode repeat motif of the 'Descent Into The Cave', is NOWHERE to be found in this thread. And neither is the commentary that I added for discussion.


    ? In the last of the 8 posts I made, 'Your Father Wanted You To Have This....', again, only ONE picture comparison is to be found in this thread - Obi picking up the saber - and I wanted to show the entire series of shots, so that people could see that it goes deeper than just one shot.

    I also added some more commentary, regarding Anakin and Threepio, to be in keeping with the 'in depth analysis' side of the thread title.[/blockquote]

    Also, whilst the top and bottom comparisons in Mandroga's post have been shown before, the POV discussion shots in the middle of his post are not in the thread anywhere that I could see.

    And finally, if you go back through the ENTIRE thread yourself, as I did the other day, you will see that a there are LOADS of images that now have broken links. This is especially the case with the images that CLANDESTINE has posted, and he has been one of the biggest contributors to the thread. So, for any new viewers coming into this thread, there are going to be a whole bunch of holes in the thread.

    What I have tried to do is to show that there is a lot more DEPTH to the level of comparison of motifs when you look closer at them.

    I'm sorry if you feel that this is not really helping the thread, but personally I think it is adding weight to the discussion.

    [face_peace]


    -JR :)


     
  10. DarthWolvo23

    DarthWolvo23 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2005
    GOOD answer
     
  11. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
  12. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    I made this comparison some time ago, but only used one shot at the time. So I'm posting the whole sequence of shots this time, as it bears looking at in it's entirety:

    Burning Away Anakin - Release of Vader: End of PT
    Burning Away Vader - Release of Anakin: End of OT



    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189160293/gallery_272_18748.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189724020/gallery_275_1799.jpg]

    Episode 3: Flame appears from left, torching Anakin.
    Episode 6: Flame appears from right, on torch.

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1188859042/gallery_272_17048.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189724203/gallery_275_6987.jpg]

    Episode 3: Fire catches - note flames bottom left of frame
    Episode 6: Fire catches - note flames top right of frame

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1188859042/gallery_272_11698.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189724110/gallery_275_17318.jpg]
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    Episode 3: Lying on his front, 'Anakin' is set ablaze.
    Episode 6: Lying on his back, 'Vader' is set ablaze.

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1188859042/gallery_272_19294.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189723972/gallery_275_4704.jpg]

    Episode 3: Obi-Wan cannot look as his 'brother' burns. Light tunic, with dark 'triangle'.
    Episode 6: Luke looks on as his father burns. Dark tunic, with light 'triangle'.

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189160293/gallery_272_4817.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189724203/gallery_275_8496.jpg]
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    Episode 3: On his front, 'Anakin' is engulfed in flames as camera closes in.
    Episode 6: On his back, 'Vader' is engulfed in flames as camera closes in.

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1188859042/gallery_272_3480.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189724020/gallery_275_9389.jpg]

    Episode 3: With great pain, Obi-Wan brings himself to look at his 'brother'.
    Episode 6: With compassion, Luke brings himself to look at his father.

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189160293/gallery_272_6431.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189724303/gallery_275_16046.jpg]

    Episode 3: Back to camera, Obi-Wan turns away from Vader, contemplating Anakin's being gone.
    Episode 6: Back to camera, Luke faces Vader's suit, contemplating Anakin's return.


    -JR :)



     
  13. DarthWolvo23

    DarthWolvo23 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2005
    In all honesty my friend my post was more directed at those viewing the forum to encourage them to look back through all the pages

    Your posts are taking these comparisons to a new level - long may it continue
     
  14. DarthWolvo23

    DarthWolvo23 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2005
    a good shot by shot analysis would be Luke going into the cave in Dagobah and Anakin finding his mother in the Tusken camp
     
  15. Jango10

    Jango10 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 22, 2002
    I loved the comparisons between the Opera Scene and the Dagobah scene. They are pretty much mirror opposites. In the former the master leads the apprentice down the dark path and in the latter the master leads the apprentice down the light path.
     
  16. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    JR, I especially like the last shot. Interesting how the arc of the flame in ROTJ closely matches the arc of the mountain in the background in ROTS in those. What I find most interesting, though, are the differences in the situations that are made clear by the comparison. Especially in Obi-Wan and Luke's reactions, and naturally in the whole tone. Kind of calls to mind a BSG "all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again" idea :p But in a different way, right the second time.

    I apologize for ignorance of the whole thread. I've looked through some of it but I haven't had time to check out the whole thing yet. I've had a lot of conversations with people over the year, particularly with fellow art and film students, about the strength of GL's visual storytelling. I think some people honestly don't realize how brilliant a visual director he is because they're focused on other things. But you could watch these films, particularly the PT ones since he directed all of them with strong visuals... basically you could watch them without dialogue sounds and they'd be just as good, if not better.

    One thing I have long wished for is a version of the PT with no dialogue but only the score, like a silent film. I honestly think it would be breathtaking. Particularly for ROTS (which I was planning to watch tonight, actually :))

    [hl=darkred]-sj loves kevin spacey[/hl]
     
  17. JediSF

    JediSF Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2004
    JR:

    Insightful post on the burning of Anakin/Vader! I had not yet thought of that reverse motif.
     
  18. earlchinna

    earlchinna Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2004
    hey just saw a fan video on youtube showing the at-ats sequence followed by the reek sequence... interesting parallels that i never tought of. Anybody ever see this? it's quite clear when the reek fall, killed by Jango... quite similar to the at ats falling on hoth ground
    we can also compare the at-at marching on luke's speeder and the reek marching on jango


    by the way, more pics on already found motifs are a nice addition! cool to see the activity back here
     
  19. earlchinna

    earlchinna Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2004
    here is the link:
    http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=7QiBQ3GPG0w&feature=related

    really good video so enjoy! the sequences is at approx 1min20s & 1min30s
     
  20. DARTHCLANDESTINE

    DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2005
    Sorry for being away for so long...just no time :(

    But ObiwanJR this one is excellent. I feel this particular sequence, actually signifies that when Obiwan tells Luke "your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough" was not exactly a lie but rather Obi Wan's hope that it would be Anakin's kid (possibly a boy that Padme was pregnant with) would be the one to "Destroy the Sith". As unfortunately, Luke's father JOINED the Sith and Obi Wan with his whole of heart that Luke (as it would turn out despite having a female twin) would finally end the Sith. Hence "that boy was a our only hope". Which was more Obi Wan's vision THAN Yoda's.
     
  21. DARTHCLANDESTINE

    DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2005
    Well I'll be! :eek:

    Great piece of detective work earlchinna! I can actually overlap both pics over each other and visualize that if you remove the TPM pic of the stands, it could the very place where Jabba's palace sits. Although, I doubt 30 years would erode the rocks on the right side of the TPM pic.[face_thinking]:D
     
  22. Arrakna

    Arrakna Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2008
    These are amazing! [face_thinking]

    Very interesting to look at!
     
  23. skgai1

    skgai1 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2005
    Just like to add my kudos to this thread. Everything in its has been great and visuals are the best way to understand things.
     
  24. _dArTh_SoLo

    _dArTh_SoLo Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2002
    I finally finished this video...errr maybe. I could still tweak it if I want to, as I don't feel it's as perfect as I want it to be, but it was really difficult to find the right cuts so I think I did an alright job.

    [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86arhYbCEcI]The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker[/link]

    I did use some of the visual parallels in this video; sparingly though, because really there weren't too many points where I could simply because the piece is short and I needed to cram a lot into it.

    Let me know what you think!
     
  25. earlchinna

    earlchinna Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2004
    can't let this great thread down!
     
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