* WARNING * Mature themes within -- Rainbow stickers and lightsabers, Challange issued!

I'm guessing that it was a case of writers falling back to what they know, in this case the western wedding ceremony. Also, the only other practice that had been mentioned was the Corellian one, and all we were told was that it involves a green dress.

YubYub and TG- Protecting fangirls from hormonally gifted fanboys since 2002

 

We know from Padmé and Anakin's wedding, that some of these practices are consistent with Judeo-Christian ceremonies, but why?

Well for the film's sake, it was to illustrate to the masses that Anakin and Padme were getting a recgonisable commitment...

I'll leave this topic open for discussion until tonight when we'll move on to the next phase of discussion...

 

*grins at Inez and Darth_Leia*

Well, I'm glad some of what I said made sense; I was practically delirious, I was so tired.

I think that Anakin and Padmé's wedding incorporated traditions from a few different cultures. We all know about the Judeo-Christian thing, but I also thought I saw a little Celtic influence. The way Anakin reaches for one hand, and then the other, seems more like a Handfasting of some sort than a traditional, 'Christian' wedding.

So I think George tried to incorporate some mythos into the ceremony, without making it unrecognizable to us.

 

Hmmm, I seem to come late to every discussion

I thin faith should play an important part in the GFFA. I don't mean Christianity, Judaism or any other earth-based faith...but just religion as a whole.

Religion is an important part in many societies, and although a larger and larger percentage of the population describe themselves as having no religion (atheist or agnostic) their actions and thoughts on matters are in some way often shaped by the religious discourses to which they were exposed as children. This is also not to mention that people often need to understand the fundamental questions of life (Why do people die? why are we here?) and religion more often then not, answers those questions.

Using my own stuff as an example (I know I do this a lot, but I know my own stuff better then anything else). I have one religion that is actually described in detail. It's combination of European pagan practices and African shamanism. It involves faith healing and ideas that gods and spirits inact terrible punishments for those who disobey them and at the same time it is the same god who saves people. They have wooden statues which they make offerings too, and taboos against certain things. They worship and deify people too.

The interesting thing is that one of my characters (Davin) was brought up in this society as his master is the temple anthropologist. When Davin (now grown) takes his own padawan back to the planet, she can't understand her master's behaviour towards what she sees as idols and primitative behaviour. She is basically believes that her way is better and more 'right' and it leads to trouble.

That kind of thinking is one that I've encountered as a Studies in Religion student (my way is better, your gods are primitive and you don't understand). I though that as it happens frequently in this world, and so I didn't see why it shouldn't happen in any other.

I think trying to make a balance between staying away from the earthyness and yet making it recognisable to the reader is somewhat hard. Perhaps to take relgious ceremonies or beliefs from this world and do (as many people have pointed out before me) what George Lucas has done and combine and squash them together...change bits and pieces and develop something new.

Kithera

P.S: Forgive my spelling mistakes and grammar errors...it's too early in the morning for me.

 

As you see, we have a new topic:

SEX


Not sensuality, NOT the forum standards, just good old faashioned Nookie, both Jedi and non Jedi.



Sex is a part of a loving relationship, but where does it fit in? In my version of events, both Anakin and Padme are virginal on their wedding night. For Padme, it was partially a matter of not having any prior real relationship persay. With Anakin, it was due to his desire to consider it the 'ultimate gift' as (to quote myself) "When you are a slave, your body is the only thing you can really call your own". However, there are people who beleive that our characters can either be as pure as the driven snow (Obi-Wan) or have multitudes of lovers (Obi-Wan)...

What's your take and why?

 

I portrayed Anakin and Padme having a lot of sex, because I felt they would have a healthy sex drive, but it was tastefully done and it was an act of love, and not pure animalistic lust.

In my AU, Obi-Wan also gets a girlfriend and gets himself some. My portrayal of sex is that it's a natural part of adult relationships and it is a beautiful thing to share between two people. This is how I see it in RL and how I want it to carry into my stories.

 

PErsonally, I think sex is perfectly acceptable in fiction- so long as it's necessary to the plot.
Nothing ruins a good story like a gratuitous sex scene.
But honestly, if it actually contributes to the story (rather than the story contributing to it, or the scene and the story existing in totally seperate and non-meshing bubbles), sex scenes can be beautiful. It's part of life for any species that furthers itself through sexual reproduction, and I think that it's a little hokey the way some people choose to pretend sex doesn't exist.

On a vaguely related topic, I think it's the mark of a good writer to be able to write a sex scene and get all the necessary plot, scene, and mood information across without being graphic. Sometimes, graphic does have its place. Occasionally it's necessary to the mood an author is trying to evoke. But to get that same mood without going into details- that's just impressive, and my hat's off to everyone who succeeds ::cough cough:: DB ::cough::.
...sorry. something caught in my throat there .

 

I think that, like anything else, it really depends on the character... and which author is portraying the character. Like a_g's Anakin. I've never seen anybody portray him quite that way, but I love him to death. And there was a lot of sexual tension in AOTC, so it's perfectly natural that Padmé and Anakin would have lots of sex once they're married... or maybe before.

So it's natural that everybody has their own version of different SW characters. Some see Obi-Wan as being too dedicated to the Jedi Code to consider breaking it. Others think he waits for love (usually with Sabé), and then has sex. I personally think that he's probably getting some, what with that glint in his eye in AOTC.

But I have yet to read about a virginal Qui-Gon Jinn; it seems to be a given that he was no angel.

I - as I'm sure everybody and their grandmother knows by now - am writing a story that centers around Jango. I was looking around SOTJ, and I found this one character-building suggestion - have an interview with them. So I did; it's actually extremely helpful.

My point? Jango's no virgin, but he's too disciplined and driven to allow anything - drink, spice, or beautiful women - to distract him. In his profession, that would be a potentially lethal decision.

So every author needs to decide for themselves. But there definitely shouldn't be this fear of writing sex into your story, so long as it's tastefully done and important to the plot.

I find writing exercises that require sex scenes very difficult. Because it's true, there is a very thin line between tasteful 'nooky' and PWP. So this is a great topic - hopefully by the time it's done, I'll have some new tips and skills.

 

When it comes to sex, I have no real objection, just as long as it's esential to the plot in any way shape or form. I find gratuitous sex unnesessary and uncalled for. Also, I don't really like it if it goes into too much detail, obviously some description is needed, but there's only so much describing someone needs to do for the reader to get the picture.

Having said that, I am guilty of writing a very OTT sex scene into one of my normal fiction pieces, and it can be said to be gratuitus. Oh well, I never meant to write it, it just kinda happened.



. . gay fanfic forever . .

 

Hmmm, Sex is an interesting topic. I think sex can be used in many different ways to get the point across about a person and their underlying personality.

Sex as a gift.

Sex can be used to show someone that you love and care for them. Many people see it as the ultimate gift (or at least their virginity as the ultimate gift) to give to the person that they want to share the rest of their life with. That, I think, is the way that most fanfic authors portray sex, as a symbol of two people?s love for each other. That?s like waiting for marriage, or the ?right time? or even having a randy Anakin bonking Padme because he truly, deeply loves her.

Sex as a weapon.

One of the most interesting points about sex really. Sex is easily a weapon and in the wrong hands can rip someone apart. I?m not talking exclusively about rape (although that?s the biggest weapon) but about people using sex as a tool of manipulation. Withdrawing sex (like affection) is a tool that people use to get their way, the same sort of thing is people using sex as a power tool ? in that seducing someone into having sex can give you temporary control over them. Sex is also so intimate and personal it can be used to get closer secrets out of someone then they might otherwise have revealed.

Sex is excellent as a manipulator. A friend of mine has a theory that the girl a boy loses his virginity to has a magical hold over him for a long time. The boy can see nothing wrong with that girl and so is devoted to her. Another friend of mine once said that being a girl?s ?first? was bad because then they became too clingy. Whether the above is true or not, sex is a powerful tool over someone else. Personal insults, bodily issues and everything else are made far worse in the context of sex then at any other time?

Rape is the worst one of the ?sex as weapon? category. It has the potential to ruin a person?s life and make them a mere shadow. It rips self esteem away and violates the victim in a way nothing else really can. Incest and paedophilia is just as bad?

Sex as a casual liaison.

I?m not just talking prostitutes ? although they can come into it ? but sex as just a casual non-emotional joining of two bodies for fun and enjoyment of it. Think a one night stand. I think this is one of the least portrayed type of sexual liaison there is, because doing it without moving into the weapon, love or sex of the sake of sex is hard?

There is also the whole thing of one person thinks it is one thing and another doesn?t. Person A loves person B, but person B doesn?t reciprocate. Person A and Person B get it on with Person B believing it to just be a casual once off. Person A believes it to be because Person B loves them back?. The tension and fall out from that can be terrible.

I think the moral of the story is to use sex wisely, both in writing and real life (and that was my Dr Phil/Jerry Springer moment of the day)

 

Hoooo boy. I just read Kit's last paragraph and all I gotta say is at least I'm going about it the right way.

Yeah, I'm in the process of working out the plot surrounding a casual liason sexual encounter, and how to make it tasteful for the PG standards of these boards. I'm pretty sure that one character in particular is going to take things the wrong way (I'm speaking in code so I don't spoil my readers ), but that eventually the issues surrounding the tryst will work themselves out.

I have no doubt that my beta and I will be able to pull it off, even though writing the more passionate and lustful aspects of sex without really revealing any details is kind of, well, difficult.

Jae Angel

 

I would combine Sex with Emotion.

I don't know, but to me ses would be impossible without emotion - not only the kind of emotion you actually feel, but also the emotion between both partners which is finally driving them into it.
To me, that's somehow important.

And to Kit' : Another point not mentioned - although rarely seen - is a special case of "Sex as a gift" : Sex as a means of soothing the pain of another person.

 

As I was writing my story one night I noticed something interesting happening ? Obi-Wan developed feelings for someone (an OC of mine). Now he pushed those emotions back and couldn?t believe what was happening to him for a long time (about 5 yrs or so). Suddenly he couldn?t resist anymore and ?took the plunge?. I tried to portray the entire scene as heart wrenching yet tender and I think (I hope) I pulled it off. When it came to the sex, I left that to the imagination of the reader.

I?ve gone into a little more detail w/Anakin & Padmé but the point is knowing what to leave to the reader and what blanks to fill in. These types of scenes are not easy and take a certain amount of finesse to do. To those who can do this w/ease ? I envy you.

I?ve written a few different stories, viggy?s really, about this subject and each one is on opposite sides of the spectrum. However, I agree w/Kit about rape ? that should never be glorified in a fic ? it is an extreme violation of a person?s dignity and is downright demoralizing.

 

Great idea for a thread

I know ya'll have moved on to the topic of Sex but I wanted to touch a little on Sprituality

In my fic I've created an entire planet and culture so I've been doing a lot a research lately. The culture I created is loosely based on ancient Japanese culture, so I've been using elements of Shinto for the religon of the planet. I'm also greatly inspired by the Empire Trilogy by Raymond E. Fiest and Janny Wurts (Daughter, Servent, and Mistress of the Empire), which seems to me to also be loosely based on Japanese culture.

One thing that struck me was the fact that black was not a color for mourning, the color used was red because the culture believed the dead went to their "God of War"'s halls. And they had the superstition that idle blood falling to the ground would draw the attention of the God, therefore making him hunger for more souls (by idle blood I mean blood spilled by accident, such as pricking a finger with a rose thorn)

Anyway, (I'm rambling) my point is I feel that showing customs in a story would make it more interesting, provided the customs fit into the plot. And if not customs at least some indication as to what the characters believe in, whether it be material possessions, the will of the Force, one true god/goddess or an huge list of dieties (just to name a few examples).

I'll touch on my ideas about intimacy and "plain old sex" later.. when I'm more awake.

 

I've just had enough of sex love and everything assoiated with it. This guy I faniced has been a total twit all this week and though some of it I brought on myself, he's being a right mardy sod.

 

Authors note:

Please note that if you missed a discussion that does NOT mean you can't make your points at a later time... The 'topic of discussion' is a guideline although the original rules of the thread still apply...


On the subject of rape,
the act itself is one of 'dominance', not nessasarily a sexual one*... (ooh! this could be a whole new topic.. stay tuned).

It's admittedly one I've been 'toying' with as part of a larger story that's been playing around my head...

*rape in sex... it's the ultimate theft in my book... handeled well it can be a powerful and genuinely creepy bit of storytelling... the aftermath there of. You don't even need to go into the 'details' to know what's happened.

 

There's not much I hate more than a horribly written sex scene. Some words are so pornish that it makes the scene more comical than poignant or whatever the plan was, while a lot of the euphemisms people use are absolutely ludicrous.

And I do believe you can write a good scene involving sex without going into details that either make it seem like a) you don't know what you're talking about, b) you fantasize about a certain character *coughobicough* or c) you're writing a humour story.

And like Breezy said, a story basing around someone recovering from a rape can be a very powerful one. But I don't believe that the rape scene (and the character's humiliation) need to be shown in lurid detail. And putting a rape into a story for no reason, or writing a one-shot rapefic for fun ... that is sick.

 

I really only read/write Ani/Padmé material, and in my interpretations, Anakin has had sex before, and Padmé has not. Anakin has because, let's face it, he's a hot guy who could probably have any girl he wanted and I find it difficult to believe he didn't come upon any hormonal mischief in all his adventures. Of course, Padmé is and always will be his true love, but there's the whole biological/physiological aspect of it that if it was offered to him by someone else, I don't believe he had the emotional control to refuse it. I don't have a speculation about how much sex Anakin has had, but I think I make it pretty clear (without saying as much) that he is the more experienced of the two. I do write Anakin and Padmé as having premarital sex, because I interpret their relationship as highly passionate, mainly due to years of repressed desire on both parts. Even though Anakin has experienced the physical release, he had never experienced true bonding with another person until Padmé. I don't think they would have waited. Just watch Attack of the Clones; the lustful looks exchanged between them on several occassions speak volumes about how much they wish they could rip off one another's clothes and...well, you know.


As far as writing sex in fanfic, if I find that a post goes beyond the standards of "decency" for this forum, I will have a PM-only version available to readers who are old enough and want it. Sometimes, I find the less descriptive scenes to be more sensually appealling, because it leaves things to the imagination rather than spelling it out like an anatomy lecture. I do find the limits of this forum to be a little prudish, but I understand that there are young, impressionable readers out there (I have a couple of 13-year olds following mine, so of course sexually explicit material is not appropriate). In fact, I submitted an excerpt of one of my future posts to the mods last week because even though it was very toned down from the PM-only version, I didn't want to get banned for posting inappropriate stuff. Sure enough, they PM'ed me back and asked me to tone it down even more. I was fine with it, because that's why I submitted it, although I didn't necessarily find the material to be inappropriate. However, I did see where it could push the boundaries.


In conclusion, sex is a natual human act and is an integral part of most romantic relationships. Anakin and Padmé had sex. Nothing to gasp at...they were married, they loved one another, and they copulated. They produced two children. So I don't think it's anything to get up in arms about when fics about these two characters reflect that. I would venture to say that most of the characters in the SW saga have a sexual history, just because it's a natural human thing to do and because nobody in the saga is restricted from it.

 

I think that sex is okay to say yah sure they had "it" but not to describe it in great detail that just makes it porn. I think that mabye haveing a couple loveingly play around then suggesting that it proceeds to something more is fine.

Rape is something that's wrong and should be portrayed in that image and only that image not as something funny or entertaining it should be done as just plain wrong.

Hmm I guess my Catholic views are really showing.

 

My two years on ff.n, a lot of the fanfic I wrote were NC-17. For my first one, it actually wasn't that bad but since it was my first time, I got a little carried away.

It is possible to write a romance between two characters and not have it sex driven, from the first paragraph to the last.

One of the reasons I am an Obidala 'shipper is because, I honestly could not stand the fact that so many Anakin/Padme fanfics on ff.n always incooperate sex into the story. It was just digusting and really cliche that this was the only plot many anakin/padme authors could come up with. It sickened me.

That just shows sex, even though it does sell, can get it very cliche sometimes.

Nowadays, I don't write too many sex driven fanfics, mostly because I really can't anymore. (A friend of mine showed me this really graphic picture in creative writing and it just paralyzed me from writing another lemon). I used to whine about it all the time because I was so good at it but now, it's not really a big deal to me.

If a chapter of one my fanfics calls for a sex scene, so be it, but that's as far as I'll go.

~aeryn

 

For my fic, "Catch a Tiger", I'm really going to have more of a 'sensuality scene' with Jango and Camri, a stripper/exotic dancer. It's pretty difficult, to be perfectly honest.

I probably just need to sit down and do it, but I think sensuality and implied sex can be a lot harder to write than out and out PWP.

So if anyone wants a Mushawan...

 

Since I've already had experience writing lemons, writing implied sex is easy for me. The trick is not give too much description to the point where the chapter could be considered NC-17.

Leave out those body part names and just talk about how the two characters feel about the experience. There's no need to go more in depth than that.

~aeryn

 

One of the reasons I am an Obidala 'shipper is because, I honestly could not stand the fact that so many Anakin/Padme fanfics on ff.n always incooperate sex into the story. It was just digusting and really cliche that this was the only plot many anakin/padme authors could come up with. It sickened me.

Umm...I'm wondering why sex between a married couple in love would be sickening? That's not to say that all Ani/Padmé fics depict them as married, but wouldn't sex be a part of their loving relationship? I mean, she did bear his twin children. So, there was some sex involved obviously.

I can understand getting sick of seeing it in every A/P story, especially if it's not essential to the plot, but realistically 95% of A/P stories are gonna be romance-centered. Sex is a part of their romance, and I don't see a problem with it if done tastefully.

 

Since the subject has been broached, I give you the next topic of discussion...

Rape

It's not just a sexual act, but an emotional one as well. It also can be applied to the idea of using altrusic means to gain information... rape can be mental as well as physical... Jedi mind tricks are used to subtally manipulate a subject. What if a powerful sith (or other unscrupulaous charater) basicly 'broke' a person using such a technique? In the Jedi Apprentice series, young Obi-wan was (almost) subjected to a form of mental rape where the aliens tried to rob him of his identity...

Elaborations? Discussions?

 

Oh. Force.

Rape is incredabley hard to deal with, and I'm talking about the rape of the mind and of the body. For the moment though, I'm just going to deal with rape in a physcial sense. Anyone who knows someone who has been raped knows the physically and emotionalled sickened feeling they get and knows the torment, sorrow and emotional wreckage that the victim is going to have to deal with for the rest of their life.

Even if we don't know somoene we can easily understand the feelings of having someone defile and descrate the most personal of spaces. With the sheer horror that the word rape brings to a person's mind it is easy to see why it is classified as one of the most horrible of crimes (excepting those against small children). Rape defiles, descrates and emotionally maims.

I've luckily, and thankfully, never been raped (although I have a friend who was). I have, however, dealt with the rape of two of my characters. Although I didn't write one of them (I'll leave that until later) it was a decision that neither my co-author or I took lightly to do or show. It had long term affects on the character and the characters around her.


I think the hardest thing about rape is showing its utter horror without breaking board rules or going into such gruesome detail that it turns the reader off. It has to be emotionally disturbing, but still realistic. I have a character at the moment who was imprisoned and raped repeatedly, but it is not something that I'm going to ever show on the boards. It will be somehting alludede to as to why she won't ever commit to someone emotionally or physically for the rest of her life, why she has nightmares and doesn't trust people outside of her small circle of friends.

Going back to portraying it realistically, I have a link to a story that I think is the best and most emotionally heartbreaking telling that can ever be done. It's something that HaiGan wrote in a series of snapshots that we co-authored.

Xanatas Snapshots Read from 4/20/01 12:08pm

Kithera