PT Was Anakin seduced by Palpatine for 13 years?

Anakin in the phantom menace was 9 years old on the right path as a sweet innocent boy who wanted be a jedi hero, but when he sperated from his mother, he thinks he going to be a hero and He first meets Palpatine.

After the victory and liberation of Naboo, Sheev Palpatine and Anakin become very close friends for 13 years and leading into the events of Revenge of the Sith. So I wanted to ask. Do you guy believe Palpatine Seduced Anakin to the dark side since Anakin was 9 year? I believe there was more to Anakins turn other than just the events in Episode 3

According George Lucas. Anakin was a victim in his childhood which I believe Palpatine seduced him then which made it harder for Anakin to resist the darkside in Revenge of the sith and palpatine. So in a way Anakin was a victim.

What are your guys opinion on the Anakin and palpatine friendship that was baesd on falseness?

 

Sidious definitely invested lots of time and energy over all those years to build Anakin's trust. This trust was critical during the time between Sidious revealing himself as the Sith Lord and Anakin cutting off Windu's arm. Anakin actually believed that Sidious would help him save Padme if he joined him.

It's ironic how after Anakin got put on the Council, Obi Wan says that his friendship with the Chancellor has paid off (as if Anakin was building relations with someone powerful for personal gain), when really we know it's the other way around (Sidious working hard to build Anakin's trust).

 

And palpatine raised Anakin for 13 years. Anakin since he was 9 years old grew up towards the dark side since he started the friendship with palpatine.

 

Anakin: ''The chancellor is not a bad man, Obi-Wan. He befriended me. He's watched out for me ever since I arrived here.''

The title of this thread is pretty funny and odd. Anyway, that's pretty much implied what happened. Palpatine groomed Anakin for years.

 

Yeah I don't think the concept of "being seduced for 13 years" fits here, but yes, Sidious spent a lot of time mentoring Anakin. I think the dialogue in the PT gives very overt clues to this.

"We will watch your career with great interest."
"Your patience has paid off."
"Your guidance more than my patience."
And the quote that @AshiusX used.

 

As I see it, Anakin was in strong need of a father figure. Obi-Wan wasn't the right fit, but Qui-Gon would have been perfect. After Qui-Gon's death Palpatine seemed the natural choice - a high ranking and kindly politician schooling him in the way of the world. Especially given the cloistered nature of the Jedi training. His ulterior motives only emerged much later after a strong and genuine bond was established.

 

Of course I mean kindly from the perspective of a lonely, scared nine year old boy. As Obi-Wan would put it, from his point of view.

 

I think he did. Like the good old grandpa who gives the kid all the sweets the evil parents would not give.

What I find way more interesting is that Anakin was allowed to have a close friendship with Palpatine. I don't have kids and don't know anything about it, but if a high ranking politician (or whoever in a higher position) would have interest in a young kid, my internally alarm bells would start ringing until there is no tomorrow. That's why I think Obi-Wans remark, that Anakin's friendship with the chancellor paid off, somewhat strange. Wasn't it Obi-Wan who allowed the friendship in the first place? As Anakin's master he was the one who decided Anakin has contact with.

 

Plapy was the only person who really went out of his way to compliment Anakin on all things.

 

"Here with Obi-Wan we get a little sense that Anakin has some relationship with Palpatine and that he likes Palpatine. In the last film we set up the fact that Palpatine was gonna watch after Anakin."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"So we have this little picnic where Anakin brings out the uncomfortable subject of previous boyfriends which boys have a tendency to do, and then we get into this political discussion which allows us to get a little insight into Anakin and Palpatine's influence over Anakin and some of his thought process."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"I also wanted to bring Palpatine back. I really wanted to finish that story. I really wanted to have this moment where he tells Anakin that he's going to be paying more attention to him in the future."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"I had all these hints that Palpatine had been helping Anakin. But I needed an explicit scene that actually spelled it out. And where you can see some of Anakin’s dialog later on has come from Palpatine."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"In the original script, there were subtle inferences that there was some kind of relationship between Anakin and Palpatine. There was dialogue where Anakin said he thought Palpatine was a good Chancellor and not like other politicians, so it was obvious that he knew him. But when I saw the first cut of the movie, I realized that we needed to push that point harder. As it was, the inferences were a little bit too subtle. Although the relationship between Anakin and Palpatine doesn't really relate to this movie - it's more important to the next movie - I had to set that up because it was important in the overall arc of the story. So I wrote that little scene to show Palpatine's influence on Anakin and his role as a mentor."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

 

Exactly. Why did the Jedi allow Anakin to spend time with the Chancellor? It’s not like Anakin could just sneak out at night to spend time with him*, and if I were either Obi-Wan or Yoda and Palpatine wanted to spend time with our young new trainee, he’d be shown the door.

I don’t think you need to have kids to know that an elderly statement taking a keen interest in a random little kid should raise all the red flags.

* Which raises even another question — aren’t there guards within the Jedi Temple? Guards that can prevent Jedi younglings and padawans from making unsanctioned excursions into public? Even if they didn’t, I would imagine at some point Obi-Wan would wonder where Anakin had been going and put an end to it when he learns Anakin’s been hanging out with Palpatine.

 

I can only imagine that he was allowed to go. Even if Anakin sneaked out of the temple, he would have made his way through the Senate building or into the residence. Which guard lets a kid that is barely able to look over the table walk the buildings alone?
And I think there was a comic in which Anakin went with Palpatine to the lower levels. He wasn't much older than 13. But I don't know if that one is canon anymore.

For me the accusation that the friendship payed off is completely wrong. If an adult is responsible for a kid it is the adult who allows or forbids friendships/visits. The Jedi's first appointment might be the training, but still they are legal guardians (is that a word) for the kids. And that means at least to question strange relationships, who could become attachments.

(And yes, when Obi-Wan told Anakin the thing about the friendship and later in TCW, some part of my brain did wonder what happend when the doors closed between Palpatine and Sidious and they were alone. No, I didn't think about sweets.)

 

I would imagine at first it would only be at formal gatherings or when the Chancellor would host the Jedi, specifically Obi Wan and Anakin, the heroes of the battle of Naboo. As Anakin got older, I would imagine the Jedi would allow him more free time. Anakin would be free to seek out Palpatine more often.

 

True. It was erroneous for me to assume Obi-Wan had a leash around Anakin 24/7, despite what Anakin seemed to think.

 

Indeed. He was a father figure who developed trust and affection over a long period of time.

 

Yepp, but it is still odd and doesn't fit with Obi-Wan's opinion of politicians and the latter "paying off". Another thing with these official hosts would be (for me) that Obi-Wan and Anakin are the worsts guests you could invite to such a gathering. I mean, don't get me wrong but Obi-Wan was a nobody then. Yes, he killed Maul, but the public doesn't even know about him.

So someone among the Jedi should have questioned why some knight like Obi-Wan gets an invitation with his padawan to official gatherings or galas? Hmm, maybe Anakin brought some sweets back home and anyone wanted him to go because no-one else ever got the special sweets.

 

Why? What's the harm in letting Anakin be friends with the Chancellor? What's different from this friendship and the friendship the Council have with Bail Organa? Or with Padme?

Yes, there were guards.



Their job wasn't to prevent the Padawans from leaving, but rather to secure the Temple from outside threats. But all of Anakin's trips were sanctioned and as we saw in AOTC, even encouraged. When Anakin was younger, they were probably similar to the meetings in Palpatine's office. The older he got, it was probably like the one in the Galaxies Theater.

 

@darth-sinister - for me the problem simply is, that it is extremely strange that a chancellor has interest in a young boy, a no-one - from the usual perspective. So usually there would/should be alarm bells going off. I am totally sure you would not allow a kid to have a friendship to a senator/politician or president. Not without supervision at least. That has nothing to do with Jedi/GFFA habits, but just with not letting a little boy/girl go alone to a older guy/woman when there is not a real reason behind it. As it is I would have found it strange with every youngling and every politician. Would Obi-Wan at the age of ten have an "friend" in the senate who's six times his age and would visit that friend alone it would be the same.*

With an older padawan it might be different, I guess they can somewhat leave on their own. Although I still think that they have to ask, otherwise even Jedi teens would probably end on some Metal-festival wherever ;-)

In case of Anakin it opens a can of problems. First, it is already known that he has an attachment to his mom. It is not uncommon that a person who just lost (in this case left) someone would look for a replacement. A grandfatherly figure like the chancellor could be and became this person.

My real problem with this is just Obi-Wans remark that Anakin's friendship with the chancellor has paid off for Anakin. Even in my native language the emphasis lies of "friendship" and has a negative meaning. Like it is Anakin's fault that there is a friendship. And it is not - this one is the fault of all adults around Anakin. I can't believe that Anakin sneaked out to meet with Palpatine for years and no-one noticed it. So it is more probable that he was allowed to. In this case the remark is simply wrong - because no-one did something to prevent the friendship in the first place.

* I know it's not in the movies or ever talked about, but in a galaxy with slavery, sex-workers, poverty and crimes everywhere it is just not likely that there are no pedophiles. As a legal guardian of any kind I would think first in this direction if a high-ranking person takes interest in a child and asks the child to come over. That has nothing to do with Palpatine and the Jedi, I would think the same if a young Leia would have such a relationship.

 

The friendship between Anakin and Palpatine makes perfect sense in the movies.

Anakin is not a 'no-one'. Anakin saved Naboo. He rescued Palpatine's planet. If Anakin didn't destroy the Trade Federation ship controlling the droids, the rest of the plan to liberate the planet fails. Palpatine showing genuine appreciation for Anakin's actions makes perfect sense. So does wanting to help Anakin in the future. It's the perfect cover for turning Anakin to the dark side later. (Why isn't Anakin being back on Naboo in AotC more of a big deal to everyone else there? I guess they don't know he single handedly saved the day.)

I don't get the feeling that attachment would be an issue either. Palpatine was more like an advisor or teacher than a family member to Anakin. And if you can't trust the president of the galaxy who can you trust?

As for Obi-Wan's remarks. Anakin is an ambitious Jedi with the skill to take on more responsibility. The Jedi Order has always been a bit hesitant to give Anakin more responsibility because they see his abilities out pace his experience to use them correctly. Now Palpatine is telling the Jedi Order what to do, which they don't like, and he tells them to put Anakin on the Council. That creates many conflicts of interest, most of which put pressure on Anakin.

So the 'freindship' line is more insinuating that Anakin is getting a seat on the Jedi Council because of his political connections, which is not the Jedi way and is interference.

 

IMO - Palpatine sensed in Anakin the same thing as Qui Gon did, a very strong Force ability that could be molded to his needs. So he set out on a systematic path to slowly bring Anakin to the Dark Side at just the right moment to complete the Sith thousand year plan.

And with the new canon and rumors about TROS one has to wonder if Palp was thinking of some type of essence transfer to take a younger , very strong body for his mind for a long time.

 

To be fair, what Ash_Satine is saying (I think) is that no sane legal guardian would allow a child to go hang out with an older man/woman alone without supervision. To put it in a real-world term, if Theresa May decided she wanted to speak to a nine-year-old boy she barely knew. Alone. Away from his guardians, what would you all think? I’m willing to bet we’d be wondering just what she thinks she’s doing.

“But Anakin saved Naboo!” Yes, and he should be commended for that. He could still be congratulated by Palpatine in his office with Obi-Wan standing guard over by the door. We’re not talking about a teen Anakin who has a bit more freedom. We’re talking about Anakin when he’s still a child. So Palpatine says something like, “I wish to speak with young Anakin” and the Jedi are all “OK. In no way is this suspicious at all”?

 

Yes, I meant what @DARTHLINK said. I was thinking about all the cases a person in a official position takes sexual advantage of little kids. In Anakin's case it's even worse because I'm not really sure if a former slavechild is able to tell what is right or wrong - or wouldn't just let someone touch him in the hope that it is over soon. He probably witnessed stuff in Mos Espa that most adults never see in their lives.

In regard to the no-one: I'm talking about Anakin as a kid. The details about what happened over Naboo probably aren't well known to the galaxy, at least there wouldn't be newsreports saying "a kid blow up that station". A few people on Naboo know about that, the Chancellor and the Jedi. That's it. For everyone else it was a victory by the Naboo fighters, the Gungans, with the help of the Jedi.
So in the eyes of the general public it is strange when someone like the Chancellor takes interest in a little kid and befriends him. And you as the person who takes care of said child, you won't let it go out and be with the Chancellor alone.

Attachment: We're talking about the little kid who got lectured about missing his mother. Who left his mother behind and is in a strange place, who knows nothing about the world outside Tatooine (hey, Anakin probably got a heart attack when it rained on Coruscant). The kid is with people who are completely different than the one he "knew" best. So why should attachment be of no problem if a older guy from outside the temple is the "kind surrogate grandfather" who lets Anakin talk about all the stuff he can't talk about in the temple or with Obi-Wan? Who tells him that it is alright to miss his mum? Who lets him do what he wants during his visits? Why should Anakin not become very close and attached to the friend that is way less complicated and strict than the Jedi?

I don't think Palpatine really manipulated Anakin at first. All he had to do was being there, give Anakin the feeling that he's special and give the kid all the sweets and softdrinks the Jedi would deny him. I think it's a bit like the discussions parents often have with grandparents. The parents set up rules, the grandparents ignore them. With Palpatine it is just on a bigger scale. The real manipulations would come way later after Palpatine secured Anakin's trust and loyalty.

 

Probably way more than that honestly.

 

@Ash_Satine — I don’t think Anakin would know the difference. He spent the last six years of his life (he and his mother were enslaved when he was three) being told he had no self-worth, that everything, including his very person was the exclusive property of whoever owned him. The fact Watto never beat him or sexually assaulted him (as far as we know) was just pure fortunate luck.

Anakin probably never had a concept of self-dignity, that he got to have a say in what people do to him. Anakin wouldn’t even consider that Palpatine’s inviting him over for private chats would be seen as wrong. As far as his instincts are concerned, an authority figure is commanding him, so he does exactly what is required. If anything else, this was the lesson Watto instilled into him from his early childhood. “Do what I tell you, or I punish you.”

EDIT: Before anyone says it, no, we’re not saying Palpatine touched Anakin inappropriately. We’re saying that the responsibility lies entirely on the Jedi as Anakin wouldn’t have a clue on what’s right or not. And a Chancellor asking for private sessions with a very young Padawan who is just beginning his lessons in the Force should be raising red flags.

 

@DARTHLINK - thank you for saying what I'm unable to say. Sometimes I hate this language. You're right, Anakin would not know if something that someone else does to him is right or wrong. I luckily don't know what slavery is like but in this case I like to compare it with the way I was raised. There wasn't real unconditional love but love that was shown when I brought the right results home (grades, results in sports etc). I got attention when my grades were good, I was often left alone when the grades were bad. For a long time (and sometimes even today) I define my own worth over every single result I get. So for a slave who has only the worth the owner declares he has, that thinking probably wouldn't stop anytime soon (or comes up again and again). I think Anakin even defined himself over Palpatine and Padmé. High-ranking people (owners) like him, so he has some worth. And as a young boy that thinking could have let to situations in which he would have done things just to secure that liking. Just like little kids nowadays post pics online or send naked photos around to get likes and with that raise their own self-worth.

To the rest: I second that. I would question the handling of Anakin as well when he would have been allowed to go to the underlevels alone as a kid or young teen. Or I question why apparently no Jedi looked for younglings/padawans who got lost on a training mission.