Rogue One Was Baze the only one who didn't make a big contribution to the Battle of Scariff?

Jyn, Cassian and K2 were stealing plans in the tower, and K2 sacrificed themselves for them, the pilot managed to contact the alliance to open the dark and died shortly thereafter, Chirrut turned on the console for the plans to be sent.
They all contributed in some way, but I can't remember Baze at all.
I think he was the least used character in the movie, but what about you?

 

He was good for providing some muscle. He laid down cover fire for the escape on Eadu. His specific weapon came in handy a few times.

I also think he helped bridge some trust between the Rebel fighters and Jyn, who then all agreed to go to Scariff together.

 

Baze's death at the end of the movie after Chirrut was gunned down showed what the character's point was in the movie: show that even the most skeptical of minds could still believe. His death besides Chirrut also showed how close they were as friends: he couldn't live without his friend, who he argued with over beliefs, yet bonded over a unique friendship that transcended those arguments.

 

Loved this character and actor. Hopefully we see more of him in TV shows and such.

 

Baze and Chirrut struck me as the kind of characters who were a set duo whose actions and contributions were essentially a joint effort (like Team Rocket or Fred and Goerge Weasley), so I'd say that if Chirrut contributed Baze did as well by defualt (and vise-versa)

 

Am I the only one who thought they might have been more than friends?

Other than that, I happened to watch Rogue One last night and remembered what an AMAZING movie it is. I know most people praise it for its 3rd act, but I actually like the 1st and the 2nd act the best. I love the scene where Jyn Erso is a kid, I love the entire sequence on Jedha with Bodhi Rok and Saw Guerrera, and Cassian and Jyn coming across Chirrut and Baze, and I definitely love the mission to extract/kill Galen Erso.

Cassian remains my least favorite character, and I wanted to punch him in half of the scenes. His rhetoric is one I could never accept, and his self righteousness is just making me angry. I hope we get to see a toned down version of him in Cassian honestly. There are 2-3 scenes where the overacting is real.

Baze on the other hand, I love. He is the down to earth companion to Chirrut. And his heart is so big. He would give his life for the Rebellion by the end of the movie, which he kinda did, even if his contribution was not as obvious as others'. Playing interference is just as important as scoring the goal.

 

Baze was a boring and pointless character.

 

Apparently he fought against the Republic during the Clone Wars:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Cassian_Jeron_Andor

Cassian Jeron Andor was a human male who was born on the planet Fest in 26 BBY to a father[1] and mother.[4] During the Clone Wars, Andor joined an insurrectionist cell backed by the Confederacy of Independent Systems that operated in the wilds of the Outer Rim Territories and fought against the Galactic Republic. Andor saw his first combat experience in this cell as a child soldier in 20 BBY by tossing rocks and bottles at Republic walkers and clone troopers. Sometime during the Clone Wars, when Andor was still young,[5] Andor's father was killed at the Carida Academy during a protest against the expansion of Republic militarism.[1]

 

At the end of the day, I understand why he was willing to kill Galen. He was receiving orders.
But his speech inside the ship when Jyn confronted him about it, makes me angry.

If you are willing to kill her father, admit it and admit that it was wrong. Don't try to present again another "life is grey" argument to justify a wrong action, just because you had a tough life and you have been in this life since forever. Having said that, I also want to see his background.

 

I also love the first act of Rogue One best. Love it all, but the way the puzzle pieces come together at the beginning was perfect to me. I love that the film didn’t rush into all the characters already knowing about the Death Star, and instead, had that slowly unravel.

Right. But that’s part of his character arc. He goes from justifying immoral actions to himself based on the greater good for the Rebellion (and being defensive about it), to acknowledging his personal faults and moving closer to Jyn’s sense of morality (while Jyn simultaneously moves closer to him by shedding her cynicism and recognizing the moral authority of the Rebellion’s cause). So though Cassian was indeed not meant to be sympathized in that scene, it’s because unlike what critics say, he had a really substantive character arc in this film. He went from coldly doing his job despite the questionable morality, to hesitating to do it (and getting defensive about it), to owning up to it and atoning for it, at the end, when he supports Jyn against the wishes of the Rebel Council.

 

Says the person with a picture of Jar Jar Binks as their avatar

But it was supposed to make you angry, and he does admit he was wrong (though by actions, rather then words) later in the movie.

It has crossed my mind from time to time; mind you guys, I don't actually think their romantically involved, but if it was said that they were I could easily buy it.

It's a bit like the Tom Baker Doctor and the Lala Ward Romana on old Doctor Who; I always read the characters as being romantically involved even though we're not shown that and nothing actually says they are (granted, Baker and Ward WERE romantically involved and it bleeds through in the chemistry).

 

Oh yeah, I know. And that's why I hate this character and he is my least favorite in Rogue One.
That will never change, since I love all the rest.

 

You hate the character becuase he was in the wrong and eventually realized that he was?

 

No, I hate him because he never admitted that he was wrong, he never apologized, and because he shouldn't have beem that adamant in the first place.

 

I believe you. We’d like to volunteer. Some of us...most of us, we’ve done terrible things on behalf of the Rebellion. We’re spies. Saboteurs. Assassins. Everything I did, I did for the Rebellion. And every time I walked away from something I wanted to forget I told myself it was for a cause that I believed in. A cause that was worth it. Without that, we’re lost. Everything we’ve done would have been for nothing. I couldn’t face myself if I gave up now. None of us could. It won’t be comfortable.

He acknowledges that he was wrong and did terrible things, shows clear guilt over it and then redeems himself by deciding to help Jyn and giving his life on the Scarif mission.

He's a former child soldier whose known nothing for war and has to lie to himself in order to (try and fail) to escape the guilt he feels for doing bad things (which he knows are bad). He was never adamant in the first place, just angry and trying desperatly to offer up justifications for what he did until he realized he could do that anymore.

 

This is NOT an apology at any point.

And this is not an admission of being wrong about her dad. He NEVER admitted that he shouldn't have started to follow that order anyway.
And Jyn Erso is right. Cassian Andor DID get her dad killed because of the X-Wings attacking. He didn't pull the trigger, but he got Galen Erso killed.

Yeah, I don't care. I can still hate him and not justify his behavior. You do you.

 

Not only did Cassian apologize (and yes, that was an apology), but he did far, far, far more than apologize with his actions. He defied the Rebel Council by agreeing to go with Jyn, he helped steal a ship thus jeopardizing his entire status with the Rebellion, and then he goes to Scarif with Jyn with the possibility of almost certain death and fights relentlessly with Jyn (in the end, saving her life and getting the plans out), and then dies alongside her after having helped her fulfill the mission her father asked her to fulfill. And then, as they were about to due, he tells her her father would be proud. And they embrace.

And that’s all after having decided to NOT obey the order to kill her father for the Rebellion. And Cassian didn’t call in the X-wings, after all.

If that’s not atonement, and if that doesn’t inspire forgiveness vs. hate, I don’t know what is, or will.

Let’s also not forget that Galen Erso was the main architect of the Death Star, so the Rebellion’s order to kill him was...understandable. He was the equivalent of a top Nazi scientist, and they couldn’t have known (or have been sure) that he was secretly aiding the Rebellion. The Allies sometimes did terrible things to defeat the Nazis. Do we condemn them forever as a result, or acknowledge that the evil they were fighting was so great that sometimes extreme measures were needed or at least understandable?

Cassian is a difficult character to sympathize with, initially, but definitely someone who inspired admiration by the end. Not least as atonement has been at the heart of Star Wars since TESB. Can’t wait to see his story in the Andor show.

 

The bolded parts of the qoute are acknowledgments that he's wrong and admits it.

You seem to be looking for a very specific type of apology tailor made to your own personal preferences. That's fine, but he DOES admit that he was in the wrong, and that IS an apology, to state otherwise is in conflict with the film itself.

We’ve done terrible things on behalf of the Rebellion. We’re spies. Saboteurs. Assassins.

And did'nt follow the order, so I'm not sure what your talking about. Did we watch different movies?

General Draven ordered the X-wing attack, not Cassian.

I'm not trying to justify anything, I'm just pointing out what the movie says.

Like seriusly dude, no offense but settle down. I don't understand why your getting so worked up, becuase there's no need to get this aggressive and combative over a fictional character; you know Cassian Andor is'nt a real person, right?

 

I don't see an apology anywhere, I'm sorry. I see someone justifying their horrible actions by saying they are doing it for "the cause".

I did not say he didn't give his life for the cause. Or that he didn't do what he had to do. But he didn't go on Scarif for Jyn Erso, he went to Scarif because he knew it's the only way that the Rebellion will win this war. And again, I am not saying that he SHOULD have gone to Scarif because Jyn Erso deserved it or whatever, all I am saying is that his behavior to Jyn Erso and his speech to her was horrible for me, and no atonement later on will change that.

Why do I not have the right to hate this character? Because you guys like him? His behavior for me is inexcusable, end of story. Not every person has the same morals, and my morals do not believe in de facto justifying the means to an end, let alone in this case. Cassian didn't call the X-wings, but he could have contacted earlier to call of the X-wings. I don't forgive Cassian Andor, no.

And your question about the Allies is a very complicated one. There is no de facto response to that generic question that can apply to ALL the horrible things that the Allies did. If you asked me about the atomic bombs for example, yeah.... no, I will never forgive the usage of weapons of mass destruction, let alone ones that obliterated entire cities.

You can admire, forgive and like Cassian Andor as much as you want, I think I have been very clear about not telling others what to feel or think about characters. That doesn't mean I have to. As Jyn Erso told him in the face, he can't talk his way out of this. And he didn't care. But I care as a viewer.

Admission and apology are two completely different things. I am not looking for a specific kind of apology. I am looking for any kind of apology, since you made that claim. Cassian Andor did not apologize about his actions, it can't be more straightforward than that really.

Not sure why you think I am worked up, I am drinking my iced macchiato with peppermint mocha like a basic ***** that I am, enjoying my Boston Creme donut and browsing the internet all relaxed.

But I do want to settle down eventually, that's true. All I need is a loving girl that will be nothing like Cassian Andor.

 

He called off the X-wings as soon as rebel personel ended up in the field of fire, but at that point it was too late for Draven to call them off becuase they had already started their attack run; he did all he could.

Cassian did'nt drop an atomic bomb, though, he almost carried out an order to assasinate key Imperial weapons scientist, but did'nt go through with it becuase he could'nt bring himself to carry out an illegal order. Like, he did'nt even actually DO anything in the end, so what is it your so upset about?

The movie makes it very clear he DOES care though; even the justifications he gives to her are only to mask his own guilt, as he admits later.

Well, I provided the qoute from the movie.

Well, it is hard to interprete how someone really feels online, but based on your prose and typing you seem very bent out of shape about this, as your stubbornly ingoring things in the film and getting very aggressive (or seem to be getting very aggressive, again sorry if I'm misreading your mood, it's hard online as I said) about how much you hate a fictional character becuase he almost did one bad thing and did'nt own up to being wrong in the very specific way you seem to wish he did.

 

Which was too late, ergo he is responsible. He didn't do all he could. He did less than he could.

You seem to want to pretend that you are my therapist, but you're not. I'm not upset. I just have a different opinion about a character and you are struggling to convince me I should forgive him. I have already explained why I hate this character. Because of his behavior towards Jyn Erso. Not much more to say.

Too little, too late.

.....which does not have an apology anywhere in it.

I did not ignore anything in the film, I have watched it 5 times, the last of which was last night. I remember all the conversations pretty well and I was making the exact same thoughts as I was watching it. And I don't think I got aggressive anywhere. If you can't read tone over text, so you just assume what tone I have that's on you. I didn't say how much I hate Cassian Andor anywhere, did I? I just said he's by far my least favorite and I just don't excuse his actions, that's all. I don't care for this type of character. It's really simple. And calling me stubborn because I don't see this character the same way you do is quite bold and rude if I am honest.

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't blame Cassian Andor for one bad thing he didn't do. I blame him directly for the death of Galen Erso, and the audacity he had to not even apologize about it to Jyn Erso. I have been very clear about this from the beginning. If you cannot comprehend simple discussion points, this conversation is not for you.

 

It was'nt his fualt that it was to late, though; he called in as soon as he saw the Jyn was in the line of fire.

I'm not sure what else you think he could possibly have done.

No I'm not.

All I'm doing is point out what's in the film and how it constrasts with your claims.

What did he do to Jyn? Becuase until now your issue has been that you think he did'nt apologize/apologize sufficently.

So you want him to admit he was wrong, but only at a specific point in the film?

The bolded statements, were he admited he was in the wrong, did'nt try to justify it and expressed a desire to make it right.

He apologized. Maybe not in so many words, but he did. And Jyn accepted it. That's the way the film was written and was intended to be interpreted.

You did, several times on this very page, in fact; which is fine, of course, you allowed to hate him and I don't really care, it's just that you came off as aggressive and combative about it.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your mood, but your prose did indeed make it seem that way.

Your not stubborn becuase I did'nt see him the way I did, your stubborn becuase you (don't seem to, at least from how I'm looking at it) want to accept what the film says becuase it does'nt fit your narrative.

You must have missed the part of the movie where he decided not to shoot Galen and were Galen died in an X-wing bombing run ordered by a different person that he had tried to call off.

So, what you want him to apologize for is for choosing to NOT kill her father?

 

Exactly ZERO of my claims are contrasted by the film though.

I don't appreciate your trolling.

1. He got her father killed by not choosing what was ethically right earlier
2. He did not apologize to her for doing what he did, he gave her a self-righteous speech in which he didn't even admit he was wrong (he admitted it later)
3. He was aggressive and rude to her, yelling at her and screaming at her even though SHE was in the right and heartbroken that her father had just died
4. He stood by his position until the end of the film, and while he atoned and tried to make things right, he was stubborn and didn't show remorse anywhere.

No, he did not. There is no line in the film where Cassian Andor apologizes for being responsible for Galen Erso's death. Jyn Erso tells him in his face that he got her father killed, and he doesn't even deny it.

No, I did not even ONCE say "how much" I hate him. I only said I hate him. And you are the one who responded to my initial comment about him, not the other way around. If you want to have the last word, that's fine, but I am not being combative about it. I just will never agree with you about Cassian Andor and I am fine with it. You are not.

I sincerely could not care any less about how you interpreted this film at this point, I am only talking about what I saw in the film, and I have no narrative. If you think I am susceptible to demagogic behavior, you will have to try really hard next time. Talking about narratives and stubbornness will just make me completely dismiss your useless contribution to the thread, which is once again off topic, like in 3 threads right now.

I actually saw that part of the movie, along with the part where Cassian Andor accepted without hesitation to kill Galen Erso, proceeded to manipulate Jyn Erso and the rest of the crew so that he can be by himself at the vantage point and assassinate her dad, and then proceeded to yell at her back in the ship, when she had just lost her father, and basically not even admit that he was wrong, by saying verbatim "I was following orders" and that he did what he had to do. If he had tried to call it off sooner, Galen Erso would be alive.

No, but I would like an apology from people that kill my brain cells every time I decide that I have enough time to actually dignify those sarcastic responses with a response of my own.