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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Was Vader/Anakin technically Emperor for the last couple minutes of his life?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Dominick1216, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. darth-skycrawler

    darth-skycrawler Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2001
    I imagine that Palpatine planned on making it so. The Sith are strange to me. They are so evil, so greedy that they consume themselves. Palpatine was determined to get an apprentice much stronger than himself, in either Luke or Anakin. Had Palpatine got his way, I don't see him lasting long with the handsome, popular and most importantly, more powerful Skywalker (Luke/Anakin) at his side. He would almost certainly have been killed a couple of years after turning them with a new Skywalker as emperor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  2. Starwarsguy777

    Starwarsguy777 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2016
    Anikan killed the Emperor. He turned good. It's not like the the rule of 2 when the master is killed by the apprentice, he was not Emperor. He was reformed. Also, he would have to be declared Emperor. So no, he was not. Finally, like the second post, the Empire was no more.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  3. Adrian the Cool

    Adrian the Cool Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    De jure, Darth Vader held the title "Supreme Commander of the Imperial Forces" and therefore I assume he was "only" the boss of the Imperial Fleet and Army, but not a political leader. That was Grand Vizier Sate Pestage, who functioned as Palpatine's political second-in-command during his reign. He officially became the new Galactic Emperor after Palpatine's death.
     
  4. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    What is the source of that? I dont remember ever reading that anywhere
     
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  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sate_Pestage/Legends


    Character origins

    The character of Sate Pestage, originally called Sate Molock, was meant to appear in the film The Empire Strikes Back. Molock first appeared in the second draft of the screenplay, where he warns Darth Vader that the Emperor is in a bad mood before Vader reports the victory at Hoth. In the revised second draft, Molock was renamed Sate Pestage.[48]

    In the fourth draft, Pestage was to be in scene 286 as a "shimmering holographic image." When Darth Vader attempts to contact the Emperor, he reaches Pestage, who (as before) warns Vader of the Emperor's foul mood and bids him to wait.[48] According to Pablo Hidalgo, Pestage had been cut by the fifth draft of the script.[49] However, the film's shooting schedule says that the Pestage scene was shot on June 18, 1979, though it never made it into the movie's final cut. As the scene was filmed, an actor was evidently cast for Pestage, but it is not known who this was. Kenner's Darth Vader's Star Destroyer Action Playset features a toy hologram apparently intended to be Sate Pestage. An enclosed instruction sheet reads, "Lower the hologram and have Darth(TM) communicate with the Grand Vizier(TM)."[50]

    While the scene was ultimately cut from the film, it appears in Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back: Official Collectors Edition and is mentioned in the Dark Empire Sourcebook, establishing it as part of Star Wars Legends.
     
  6. Adrian the Cool

    Adrian the Cool Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Well he appears in some Expanded Universe works, like the X-Wing series. :)

    Also, I just read on Wookiepedia that he, as Grand Vizier, functioned as the Galactic Empire's official chief of government, which means that de jure, Palpatine wasn't even the absolute ruler (well, what's the case de facto was another matter ;) ), but only head of government.
     
  7. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    He's in Newcanon as well- but as a less important official -Mas Amedda fills the Grand Vizier role.
     
  8. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    According to the original film canon, I would think so.

    Vader was clearly recognised as being second only to the Emperor and his heir apparent. Clearly shown by Vader telling Luke that they would destroy the Emperor, bring order to the galaxy and rule it, "as father and son!"

    Like the transition from Republic to Empire, would have been better for Luke to become Emperor and re-reform it from within, rather than leave it to corrupt Mothma and company to form an illegitimate body that was as corrupt and ineffectual as the old. What was needed was the Jedi, not the Senators and such like taking advantage of the situation to reestablish the conditions which caused people to support Palpatine in the first place.
     
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  9. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    There's no reason that Vader would be seen as the Emperor, since all he was was a lackey. He would have to earn it by taking charge after killing him, which he never gets to do.
     
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  10. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Without any knowledge of how or even if Palpatine wrote a succession process into the new constitution of the reformed Republic - aka the Empire, we will never know if Vader could have been legitimately recognised as the new Emperor.

    However - the fact that hitherto unheard of Snoke was installed as the ideological/spiritual figurehead of the Imperialist successors, the FO, and the nature Kylo Ren's immediate assumption of Supreme Leadership illustrated the philosophy of Imperialist succession in the GFFA. The Emperor is succeeded only by a candidate from a particular spiritual and ideological category or clique. Not from the bureaucracy or from the military hierarchy.
     
  11. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2019
    If Sidious officially made Vader his heir to the throne, then legally speaking Vader would be the emperor in those few minutes, even if he doesn't proclaim it and no one acknowledges it.
    But I don't think Sidious ever officially did that. He probably thought it was unnecessary, and assumed that when he dies, Vader would take over and proclaim himself emperor.
     
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  12. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    I'd like to see someone tell Vader otherwise, had he lived.
     
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  13. BlackRanger

    BlackRanger Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 14, 2018
    I imagine some of the Moffs with ambitions, in the vein of Tarkin or Krennic, would not have let any succession go unchallenged.
     
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  14. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    I’m not sure the Imperials would recognize Vader as the new Emperor. Especially if Palpatine had arranged an order of succession and they know how Vader became the Emperor. They would’ve seen him as a traitorous usurper, try and execute him. It’s still a government.
     
  15. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    True, but if you were a lowly stormtrooper, put in the position of choosing between a Moff or Vader, who would you choose?

    [​IMG]
     
  16. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Force Ghost star 4

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    Feb 24, 2005
    I imagine there’d be infighting with one side picking Vader and the other side backing a Grand Moff/Thrawn.
     
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  17. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Given Palpatine's management style, I personally doubt he ever established a clear line of succession, and even if he had, it seems unlikely that Vader would be officially placed anywhere within it. And of course when Vader killed Palpatine, he had no intention of taking over as Emperor. Nor, obviously, was there any time or any mechanism for him being recognized as such by a majority of power-holders or a majority of citizens in the Empire. So I don't think there's any basis for Vader inheriting the title in either a de jure or de facto way. When Palpatine died, the Empire was left without a clear leader, and as a result it collapsed very quickly.
     
  18. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Indeed, but Palpatine did not rule simply by command:

    Smoke was everywhere, substantial rumblings came from all directions at once,
    people were running and shouting. Electrical fires, steam explosions, cabin
    depressurizations, disruption of chain-of-command. Added to this, the continued
    bombardments by Rebel cruisers—smelling fear in the enemy—merely heightened
    the sense of hysteria that was already pervasive.
    For the Emperor was dead. The central, powerful evil that had been the
    cohesive force to the Empire was gone; and when the dark side was this diffused, this
    nondirected—this was simply where it led.
    Confusion.
    Desperation.
    Damp fear.
    - ROTJ novelization
     
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  19. Adrian the Cool

    Adrian the Cool Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2012
    Vader was "only" the boss of the military as "Supreme Commander of the Imperial Forces", while Palpatine de jure was "only" head of state as Galactic Emperor, with Grand Vizier Sate Pestage as head of government. But Palpatine never thought about dying, the wanted to live forever via his clone bodies on Byss and he build the Empire so that it could not work without him to prevent events like civil wars and metaphorical back-stabbing. Unfortunately this policy made Palpatine vulnerable, with him being the clearest strategic target for enemies of the Empire...
     
  20. themoth

    themoth Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 5, 2015
    In that moment it was full abandon ship mode. Vader would’ve had to regain full authority after escaping Death Star 2.
     
  21. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    Excellent point.
     
  22. BlackRanger

    BlackRanger Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 14, 2018
    Though as it's Vader saying that, rather than another Imperial, that shouldn't necessarily be taken as something the whole Empire would accept without a fight.
     
  23. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Exactly. We’re given no indication from the other Imperial officers that Vader is next in line to the throne. That said, I don’t think anything would physically stop Vader from seizing power (as other than the Emperor, he was pretty much invincible.)

    Edit: What a bitter pill the Grand Moffs would have to swallow — having to form an alliance with Luke Skywalker to take down Darth Vader. :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  24. themoth

    themoth Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Yeah. A father/son takeover was a secret of his. Though I’m sure he would’ve been able to ‘convince’ the Empire of the leadership change if he did complete his coup.
     
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  25. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Exactly.