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TLJ Ways TLJ Builds/Fails to Build Anticipation for Ep. 9

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by scuiggefest, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. scuiggefest

    scuiggefest Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 8, 2002
    I've seen this topic mentioned but not really discussed in detail here in the forums. So, here is a new thread. What elements of TLJ have you pumped to see IX? Has Rian Johnson set the stage for the most thrilling episode yet? Or not really?

    I'll start with some obvious ones.

    First, we have broom boy. Is he just one new, untrained force user among many? Will we see a galaxy full of new Rey's, brimming with raw force potential but with no idea what to do with it? How will this affect the First Order's ambitions of galactic dominance? If the unruly force users cannot be ruled, will we see the saga end with galactic anarchy? Total chaos? The possibilities for large-scale conflict among untrained force wielders have me drooling.

    Second, the Resistance is in grave peril. They're down to one ship, which the First Order can track through lightspeed wherever they go. Kylo Ren has sworn to kill Rey and the rest. How will they survive? Will the chase be depicted, or skipped over with a time jump? It seems like too big an opportunity to pass up, imo. For the first time in the trilogy, all the main characters are in one place for an extended period of time, and they'll need all their heroics to get out of this one.

    Third, is there any reason to even watch now that the main character is dead? How can the saga continue following the death of Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master? Of course, when Jedi die in these movies, they often aren't for real dead, and it seems like a slam-dunk that Luke will return as a Force ghost. Obi-Wan told Vader "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine," but we really haven't gotten a satisfying demonstration of that in the films. The most power we've seen from a Force ghost was Yoda's weather manipulation in TLJ. Will Luke finally show us the true power of an ascended Jedi? I can't wait.

    Anyway, those are some of the thoughts I've been rolling around. What are some of the revelations, mysteries, and plot situations from TLJ that have you chomping at the bit for the next installment?
  2. ObidioJuan

    ObidioJuan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 1, 2002
    We are told that the planets do not care to help the Rebels, ergo, they accept the FO. So who exactly are the Rebels going to fight for? the slaves of Canto Bight?, boring.

    There are no Jedi anymore and besides they were wrong to begin with so no point in trying to start a new Jedi order, so no story here. Boring

    Kylo has no reason to try and turn or to turn back unless he's got the hots for Rey which really has not been set up in the two movies (his stated goal is to kill her). And there's nothing there to say you want to help redeem him. I mean what for?, so he can go back to mommy crying and ask for forgiveness for killing everyone else that Leia cared about?. Boring

    Luke is a coward and broken/dead. All he did was project a hologram to confuse and delay the FO from killing the Rebels. I don't want to see him again, as there's really nothing he can do anymore. Boring

    The redemption story that could be mildly interesting is the redemption of Luke but since he's already dead it would be pointless now.

    Rey becoming the Queen of the Universe is also a boring story.
    Revan51, Miriedis, CaptainEO and 21 others like this.
  3. RogueZero

    RogueZero Jedi Master star 1

    Mar 17, 2009
    Except Luke isn't the main character in this trilogy. Rey is. Luke was the main protagonist in the Original Trilogy. This is Rey's trilogy. Additionally, The Star Wars Saga is stronger than any one character. It will live on after Luke, Han and Leia are gone, just as it has after Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme were gone, and it will live on after Rey, Finn and Poe are gone.
  4. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    May 19, 2002
    There are 2 pivotal moments after Leia said the spark was our in TLJ.

    1) Luke came back and seemed to be almost God-like and mythical to the public with his power and sided with the Rebellion and declared that he will not be the Last Jedi. Rumor will soon spread of Rey's exploits on the Supremacy because Kylo Ren doesn't want it known yet that he was involved with Snoke's death. So, the impression will be that this mysterious protege who may have trained with Luke Skywalker killed Snoke and all of his 8 guards by herself.

    We then see that he HAS inspired the galaxy to rise up.

    2) D’acy also states this at the very end very clearly: When we get to the Outer Rim I have a contact there.

    These two things occur after the situation that leaves Kylo Ren thinking that they’re done and after nobody initially came to their rescue following the distress call on

    So, who do you think this contact is in the Outer Rim that D’acy knows will help them?

    And will this crew rebuild the alliances a little like how Starks did following the fall of Winterfell in Game of Thrones when they were down to 5 remaining members? They have someone even more respected to the galaxy than Ned Stark was in Luke Skywalker inspiring this universe to rise up along with a girl that people will come to learn was his padawan (the allies don’t need to know how much time he spent with her) and who even the FO believe single-handedly killed the Supreme Leader and all his guards entirely by herself. One by one, first starting with D’acy’s contact, do you think the presence of the survivors in person will shame those who didn’t answer the call, and that in conjunction with Luke’s return message and the presence of a new Jedi, and the death of Snoke, that it will inspire the other allies to join forces as the other houses did House Stark?

    Leia was likely going to play a huge part in this for IX and I wouldn’t be surprised if they changed the contact to D’acy following Fisher’s passing and had D’acy will play a bigger, almost Mom Mothma type of role in IX diplomatically bringing alliances together. What do you all think?
  5. SaintKenobi1322

    SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jul 17, 2013
    It is a huge fail for me, because we know how this is going to end; the Resistance is going to defeat the First Order. The only lingering question is, does Kylo Ren turn back and help, or does he go down the First Order?

    I honestly could not care less. If that's not failing to build excitment, I don't know what is. I am most curious to see if JJ can repair the damage that was done in TLJ. Is Luke actually dead? How much of a role does he have as a ghost? Is he in it at all?

    If someone were to tell me Mark Hamill does not appear in IX, I am not even sure I would see it. I simply don't care.
  6. Blue 5

    Blue 5 Jedi Knight star 3

    Jan 6, 2017
    I wouldn't be surpised if Episode 9 tries to copy
    Jon and Daenerys
    from Game of Thrones.
    nonesuch, La Calavera and AhsokaSolo like this.
  7. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    May 19, 2002
    In addition to that it will also be interesting to see how Kylo Ren aims to get Rey back to his side and the lengths he'll go to do it and whether she will be able to resist those new tactics, or deceive him into thinking she's going along when she has no intention of truly doing so.

    Other questions beyond what I've written above over 2 posts include:

    Will Hux try to stage a coup behind Kylo Ren's back?

    What new things will Rey read about in the ancient Jedi texts?

    Will Rey be rewarded with a surprise lineage tie-in at the end of the saga once she's decided her destiny without one? Will the junkers just be people who found a crying baby in a wreck that was previously owned by Obi-Wan Kenobi's son or daughter? Meaning that without either side realizing it... the duel of the fates returned and the grandchildren of Anakin and Obi-Wan had history repeat their famous grandfather's decades long battle within them?

    Will Ben Solo sacrifice his Dark Side ambition in pursuit of Rey's affection? If he does will she accept the change in him? Or, will he rejection lead them to battle where only one will survive?

    Will Luke return as a Force ghost advisor? If Rey is given a surprise lineage happy ending at the end will she ever get to hear Obi-wan's voice?

    Will Rey use the texts to help rebuild a new Jedi Order and become a teacher to children?

    I have other questions but those are the big ones.
  8. datatapes

    datatapes Jedi Padawan star 1

    Dec 28, 2016
    While I wasn't TFA's biggest fan (it is somewhere in the middle of my rankings) its closing moments left me super excited to see what they'd do with TLJ. Now, although TLJ certainly has its high points, it completely failed (for me) to build anticipation for IX. There are certainly outstanding questions, but no reason to think that the next episode will answer them. And Rey, who I like a lot, suffers from her seeming inability to set a foot wrong. Even her apparently misplaced belief in Kylo's redemption (which may yet prove to be merely premature) had no negative consequences for her or her friends, and almost completely untrained she was easily a match for the highly trained Kylo at the height of his powers.

    What I would like to see happen in IX is either Rey suffer a serious setback of the kind she hasn't so far (i.e. some form of defeat at Kylo's hands) or turn to the dark side. Then I would like an episode X to show how the dark side is defeated. After TLJ I don't think a single episode can tie things together. And I don't want IX to be 2.5 hours. 2 to 2.25 hours should be about right.
  9. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 10, 2005
    After watching Force Awakens my thoughts were that this is going to be 6 episodes, not 3.

    It feels like Disney is remaking the prequels in a sense, where Rey is taking anakins journey. I would not be surprised if Rey turns to the dark side. Of course with Luke's treatment that'd make him a total failure so maybe not.
    Dukeleto69 likes this.
  10. Jozgar

    Jozgar Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 20, 2015
    Was it ever in doubt that the First Order would lose in the end? Kind of a silly complaint IMO.
    dogprivilege likes this.
  11. SaintKenobi1322

    SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jul 17, 2013
    No, but now that's all that's left, and there's only two different ways it can go down.
  12. Too-Gon Onbourbon

    Too-Gon Onbourbon Jedi Knight star 2

    Jan 23, 2016
    For me it broke the whole trilogy cycle (or so I hope).

    I'm not against trilogies, I just think they have become too much of a structure focus and I'd like to see not only Star Wars but all franchises to stop trying to default to that set up.

    I think the story should be allowed to dictate how many movies are in an arc.

    I strongly believe the prequels needed another movie between Clones and Sith and The Dark Knight needed another between DK and Rises while The Hobbit would have been far better as one or at most two films.

    Right now with the sequels, I feel like we are in an exciting place with the new Rebellion, Rey ready to progress towards knighthood, Poe ready to grow into a true leader rather than just a hotshot ace of aces, Finn now done running and able to see and give himself to a larger universe other than Rey while still wanting to see how and if he and Rey develop their bond.
    Kylo is now growing into the big bad.
    The force seemingly actively asserting itself across the galaxy while the First Order looks to take control.

    I think there is a ton there really but it also feels like we need at least two movies to play it all out or maybe more and I'm fine with that.
  13. The Last Cookiemonster

    The Last Cookiemonster Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 27, 2017
    In my opinion the only way to build any tension is to immediately retcon the current apparent failings into greater mysteries in the opening act, make it so everything which has happened so far is going to build up to something coherent in the end after all, but finally exploring new territory instead of just copying the original trilogy's scenes, scenarios, and even dialogue.

    But TLJ burned my hopes for that level of planning or cohesion in this trilogy, so I'm really not getting hopeful anymore.

    I saw a way to do it which seemed so wonderful to me that I wrote my first ever attempt at a fan script thing, but it might be on the level of "Tell that to Zod's snapped neck", so I don't know if it would work for others.

    The ideas are essentially that all the copied scenes from the originals have a purpose, Luke Skywalker cutting himself off from the force caused his energy to jump to Rey which has forced his destiny upon her at a rapid pace, including his death, which is why everything has played out so similar for her down to ships, dialogue, and even Snoke's throne room. The force ghosts possibly did this in a desperate attempt to get in contact with Luke again, knowing that her rushed destiny would bring her to that island, and change things for him. Unfortunately his projection unexpectedly killed him, he wasn't at his full power, and he has to question that in our first glimpse of the force afterlife (new stuff finally, yay). When the pre-programmed destiny eventually kills Rey at an inopportune time, and she has to be sent back, she is later able to gain Leia's force and untapped destiny as a potential Jedi which she never realized, done by Luke appearing and calling to Leia offscreen in the same way that he did in Empire Strike's Back. She gains an effective daughter and Rey is not a Skywalker, but carries their legacy, both of Luke and Leia and the Jedi Order, while having being parented a bit under Han.

    There are other ideas like Rose's weird behavior and strange unbelievable romance with Finn was all part of an act, that medallion she has which was focused on so heavily is the symbol which marks her as the last of an ancient sect which believes in a prophecy, and she thinks Finn is critical.

    All this stuff could turn the boringness and blandness of TLJ into intentional exciting plot points for me, which would make watching that movie more interesting in retrospect, like when Lucas retconned Obi Wan's description of Luke's father's death into a lie, and his moment of hesitation works so perfectly for that scene in retrospect.
  14. cut-of-space

    cut-of-space Jedi Padawan star 1

    Nov 29, 2017
    When I first saw it, The Last Jedi took all my future anticipation to the point where I wanted to give up on the new trilogy. It seemed like there was nothing left for me, as if all the best doors had been slammed shut forever. But then over the next few weeks I read fan ideas for the Episode IX and it brought back some excitement! Actually, I'd like to thank my fellow posters for giving me new hopes.

    So here are some questions that have answers to look forward to:
    • Who will live? Who will die?
    • Is Rey really nobody? I doubt it, come on.
    • How will they handle Carrie Fisher's passing?
    • When & where will we see Luke Skywalker again?
    • Which characters are going to fall in love?
    • What will Kylo actually do as Supreme Leader?
    • Does Rey plan to start a new Jedi Academy?
    • Are the Skywalkers really going to end? Really? Doubt.
    • What have the Knights of Ren been up to?
    • How did Snoke convert Kylo? Will they show us?
    • Uhh... Who was Snoke?
    Dukeleto69 likes this.
  15. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    May 17, 2003
    TLJ unleashes really limitless potential for resolving this trilogy in a new and different way that compliments what came before it while advancing the story to a new destination. We have these two compelling young characters that respectively represent the dark and light sides of the Force. Watching how the exchange and confrontation between Rey and Ben and how it ultimately results in balance should be fascinating.
    nonesuch likes this.
  16. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Jul 22, 2004
    Episode IX will be the first Star Wars episode since 1980 that doesn't have a "hook".

    When viewers showed up in 1980 it was based off the pure merits of wanting to see the continuing story, and characters, from Star Wars. ANH introduced the world to SW, yes, but it doesn't end with seemingly much more to really actively explore. It could've been a perfectly fine stand alone.

    And that's where we are now, to a certain extent. TLJ leaves a few hanging threads, but it actually closed a lot of doors. In many ways it really cleaned the slate.

    I think IX will be the first SW in decades that's going to have to rely largely on it's own merits. The advertising campaign is going to be key, and Disney-LFL has gambled on their new characters to a large extent, with the hope that a lot of people really do care about them sans the legendary hold overs.

    No SW episode has been in a more challenging, uncertain position since Empire.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  17. ObidioJuan

    ObidioJuan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 1, 2002
    The difference IMHO to ESB is that I wanted to know more about Luke, Han and Leia and see Vader again.
    I don't really care about Rey, Fin and ??? Poe?, Rose?, I never really cared about Emo man-child Kylo.

    Granted, I'm on the minority just really looking for Solo movie more than EPIX
    wobbits, ImpKnight, MS1 and 2 others like this.
  18. JamieH

    JamieH Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 25, 2015
    The market research says they don't. Disney marketing has 2 years to change that.
    MS1 and ImpKnight like this.
  19. SmokeMonster4815162342

    SmokeMonster4815162342 Jedi Knight star 1

    Dec 31, 2015
    Here are the questions the movie left me with to make me excited for the next film.

    -Will the film be about building a rebellion from nothing? How would they be able to accomplish that? Or will it start with the Rebellion already reformed, similar to the OT? How widespread will the Rebellion be, or at least how widespread will the spirit of rebellion be across the galaxy?

    -How will the new Rebellion learn from the failures of the past? Did TLJ point to a Rebellion with more pascifist beliefs, or will the end game be about burning the First Order to the ground?

    -What will Kylo Ren be like as Supreme Leader? Its a scary thought. How will it have changed him? How will he have affected the galaxy?

    -What drew Ben to the dark side in the first place? Fear of inadequacy? Fear of failing to live up to his famous hero parents and uncle?

    -What will Kylo Ren's fate be? Can he be saved? Given that Kylo Ren couldn't kill Leia, and Luke's last words to Leia, is she the key? (Will they recast Leia?)

    -What will Kylo Ren and Luke’s next meeting be like? Or Luke and Rey's?

    -Rey has the Jedi texts. What information or secrets will she learn?

    -Will we see more Jedi rising up?

    -Will we see the Knights of Ren?

    -What does Rey seeing Finn and Rose mean for Rey moving forward? Does she seek companionship, and how will that factor into her story on the whole? What is Luke's take on Jedis and love?

    The visual dictionary has also got me excited for potential developments on the Prime Jedi, Sith Ghosts, and Snoke, but that's the kind of thing I'm going to have to control my anticipation for considering it wasn't in the film itself.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  20. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Master star 3

    Aug 3, 2013
    The order isn't down to one ship. Plenty of Resistance personnel are out in the Galaxy on other missions, like Snap. So sayeth Pablo.
    scuiggefest likes this.
  21. Captain RX

    Captain RX Jedi Knight star 2

    Jul 30, 2014
    I really don't think your in the minority. People are going to see these movies because they are Star Wars and because of the thrill of seeing the classic characters again. Rey, Finn and Kylo are not exactly lighting the world on fire. Do we have any sales numbers for character specific merchandise?
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  22. ObidioJuan

    ObidioJuan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 1, 2002
    I don't know if it's available. But funnily one of the better characters in the ST (more universally accepted) is BB8! a droid that has no dialogue!
    Darren_Saw likes this.
  23. Strategize

    Strategize Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 18, 2017
    Using Google trends to gauge general interest, I think you're probably underestimating them a bit.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  24. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Aug 9, 2004
    I'm very excited for Episode 9, because I simply have no idea what direction they're going to go in. Unlike TFA, TLJ didn't really leave any clues as to where the story could go.
  25. MasterPrince713

    MasterPrince713 Jedi Knight star 3

    Sep 13, 2017
    Right? Because they're practically shoving him down peoples' throats.

    The BB-8 X-Wing bit, uh, funny?
    Surviving that explosion, ok, makes sense....
    KO'ing those CB cops, uhhh....?
    Piloting an AT-ST, WTF? (I actually mouthed that in the theatre when I first saw it.)