main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Lit What’s your view on Operation Cinder?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by StarWarsFan91, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    What is your assessment on it? Was it a wise choice to be made for the new continuity for the last days of the Empire? Or do you wish the end of the Civil War played out differently then what we got?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  2. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    It's fine. Accelerates things somewhat so we can jump right into the New Republic, but, as we can see with Aftermath and Alphabet Squadron, it doesn't eliminate the interesting "vying imperial factions" element from Legends.
     
  3. Esh-kha

    Esh-kha Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2018
    I just saw the cutscenes of the game on youtube. Made no sense for me.
     
  4. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Operation Cinder was a thing way before Battlefront 2 was. First shown in the Shattered Empire comics, then was mentioned in the Aftermath series. Lots more minor mentions, like how the facility the rebels infiltrate at the beginning of the Star Wars comic run is actually producing the sentinel droids that transmit the Emperor's will posthumously.
     
    BigAl6ft6 and Jedi Ben like this.
  5. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I like the idea that Palpatine didn’t waltz into Endor blindly and actually had some awareness of the fact that it might go against him. Given that understanding, Cinder makes sense and is an interesting alternative to what the EU did.
     
  6. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Oh, I think the EU Palpatine also had an idea that Endor might be a trap for the Empire, so to speak. That Palpatine just took different precautions (ala the essence transfer and his clones).
     
    JediFett10 and Dr. Steve Brule like this.
  7. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Yeah, the idea that "Palpatine at least considered the fact he might die and put in a motion a plan to actively have the Empire collapse without him" has been around since the Dark Empire Sourcebook, if not DE itself.
     
    spicer, Sable_Hart, Voltron64 and 7 others like this.
  8. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2013
    I preferred the idea that it's a natural conclusion of how Palpatine set the Empire up, not something he forced to happen.
     
  9. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    Looking at Sheev's mentality it makes perfect sense..."if I can't have the Galaxy...no one can." It would also be something that would separate the true believers from the "good Imperials". As well as push a lot of worlds over to the NR.
     
  10. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    You know how when an Imperial officer screws up and they get shot or force choked? Operation Cinder is that on a galactic level. Idea can’t understand why they’re destroying her home planet full of “good Imperial citizens.” From Palpatine’s perspective, if they were really good Imperial citizens, he’d still be alive. The Battle of Endor was a complete failure, not just of the navy and the personnel stationed on Endor and DS2, but the Empire as a whole.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    convenient for plot, although it fits Sheevy's character to be so petty. I actually really like the connotation that if Vader ever fulfilled the Rule of Two, the Empire was programmed to spite him and leave him with nothing to rule.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  12. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    To be fair the way in which Palpatine has the Imperial factions destroy each other with civil war after they recapture Coruscant is reminiscent of Cinder.

    And now I wonder if Aftermath fits better after Dark Empire in Legends. Didn’t the Empire after Byss exploded also vanish within a year? Move Ben’s birth to 11 ABY, push back TFA to 40 ABY... meh. Doldrums.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    spicer, Sable_Hart, Vthuil and 5 others like this.
  13. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    With Daala as the Gallius Rax of Legends... :)
     
  14. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    The Empire was a fascist dictatorship so of course it would collapse upon his death. I don't think Operation: Cinder made that any different. It's just a neat little plot that exposes the Empire's leader for what he was.
     
  15. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Obviously it also would fit better with the initial DE placement just after ROTJ. And don't forget that the opening scene of DE is Luke walking alone out onto a battlefield to single-handedly stare down an AT-AT and shrugging off its laser fire... definitely not an image that got reused in the post-ROTJ new canon ;)
     
    Nom von Anor, spicer, Vthuil and 2 others like this.
  16. FS26

    FS26 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2018
    I'd argue that Operation Cinder would also function as a last test of Vader's ability should he have killed Sidious. If Vader succeeded in keep in control of the Empire despite Sidious and Rax's machinations, he would have proven himself stronger than Sidious and deserving the role of Emperor.
     
  17. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    I find Operation: Cinder to be very satisfying. It shows the entire Galaxy, including all loyal Imperials, just who their beloved Emperor really was.

    A power-hungry fiend who only created the Empire to satisfy his own self-centered desire for dominion.

    There was never anything noble about the Empire. It was evil from the day it was created, built on the blood of innocent children.

    Operation: Cinder is the last gasp of the petty and selfish Emperor. Incidentally, it shows that Thrawn's plan was a complete joke. He hoped to redeem the Empire by ensuring that the leader after Palpatine would be a noble and decent ruler. The joke was on him, as the Empire was never intended to outlast its creator.

    The Empire was never anything more than Darth Sidious's chosen method of dominating the entire Galaxy through fear and terror. Operation: Cinder is proof of this, and proof to every last person who thought that the Empire could be redeemed and fixed that they were wrong.

    Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
     
  18. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Cinder also showed the truth of Tagge's question: "How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"
     
  19. JediKnight75

    JediKnight75 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2011
    I think Operation Cinder makes sense in universe. There was no way Palpatine wanted a successor. The Empire was his and if he died it was the fault of others. So they needed to be punished. Imperials either failed Palpatine or betrayed him by taking power and so Imperial worlds would be devastated. The Rebels fought him and so would be punished as well. It's a final act of spite against the galaxy. I doubt Palpatine expected to die, but I'm sure he'd find comfort knowing if he, did the galaxy would suffer. From a story telling perspective, I think Operation Cinder is good by preserving Palpatine's central role in the GCW. Even after his death, he is influencing events. The war ends when Palpatine's final plan fails. Since he is an antagonist in the OT, I much prefer this to the post Endor war being driven by new warlords. They have their place and I hope we have a lot of stories about them. However as the central narrative, I prefer Cinder and the Contingency because the New Republic is still essentially fighting Palpatine.
     
  20. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    This isn't necessarily the case. It's completely dependent upon if they have some type of succession plan, or if another leader could gather enough support. Cinder essentially made that task impossible as it not only turned the population against the Empire, but it also split the Empire between extremists and moderates.
     
    Voltron64 and Charlemagne19 like this.
  21. DelRiego

    DelRiego Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2002
    what bugs me is not the intent but the mechanics. Why make another Death Star if you have the capability to cinder-size the dissident planets?. It's crueler to ruin the weather and have a world slowly collapse and die than to blow it up in seconds.

    the answer could be "Why not make another Death Star?"; then it's just Sheev being financially irresponsible
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  22. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    What if Palaptine died of old age?

    Would he have found a successor beforehand or allow operation cinder anyways?
     
  23. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    No. For a successor to inherit the mantle of Sith Master by simple fiat of the Master's natural death goes against the fundamental principle of the Rule of Two.

    "Only the strongest has the right to rule the Sith! The title of Dark Lord must be seized, wrenched from the all-powerful grasp of the Master!"
     
    Outsourced likes this.
  24. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    I feel like Sidious's usage of the Rule of Two was completely twisted as early as the outbreak of the Clone Wars. He doesn't care about extending a line of powerful Sith. He just wants "UNLIMITEF POWAH" and galactic domination. There was no way that Vader ever would have taken the Empire as his own.
     
    Voltron64 and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  25. JediKnight75

    JediKnight75 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2011
    He'd probably just allow Operation Cinder. Palpatine didn't care about the galaxy beyond what it could give him. After he does, it doesn't matter to him. I doubt he'd take the time to create different outcomes for if he died because he was killed or for natural causes. He'd just let whatever happened hsppen
     
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.