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ST What could George Lucas do legally if they changed his outlines?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by J.J.Abrams, May 25, 2014.

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  1. JediKnightWax

    JediKnightWax Jedi Master star 4

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    May 21, 2014
    Lucas couldn't make the movie without the others. So each are 100% important.
     
  2. CheelBackFromTheDead

    CheelBackFromTheDead Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 4, 2012
    It can amount to more than 100% if you want.
     
  3. CheelBackFromTheDead

    CheelBackFromTheDead Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 4, 2012
    In that case there's someone even more important to the SW franchise, it's Gary Kurtz. Because a director can achieve nothing without a good producer. Too little credit is given to producers, that help shape a movie as much, if not more, in effect, than a director. He truely sets things in motion.
     
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  4. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Kurtz was a negative % and was fired in 1979 or so because of it. He was not a good producer and is part of the reason that they were continually over budget.
     
    SnaggletoothPaste likes this.
  5. JediKnightWax

    JediKnightWax Jedi Master star 4

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    May 21, 2014
    Regardless, without him there wouldn't be the Star Wars we know today.
     
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  6. CheelBackFromTheDead

    CheelBackFromTheDead Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 4, 2012
    I'm sad that you would say that. If you think a producer's role is just keeping the budget then you're misinformed... In effect, he makes a director's dreams happen. And as far as I'm concerned, he did a spectacular job on ANH, setting things for 40 years of SW and counting.
     
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  7. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2003
    I didn't say it was his only job, but it was his most important since Lucas was also serving as EP. It's pretty clear that a lot of stress Lucas felt on SW was because Kurtz wasn't keeping things on budget. It's in Rinzler's book. It's also one of the reasons he was fired by his friend George.
     
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  8. CheelBackFromTheDead

    CheelBackFromTheDead Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 4, 2012
    A lot of stress came from the fact that it was underbudgeted in the first place, which made things impossible for everyone. How can we go from Kurtz doing the best he can to Kurtz being a negative influence to the saga ? That's just too much.
     
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  9. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Well, you did give contributing artists more credit than you gave George. You gave him 10%.

    I went negative since Lucas fired him. Would he have been fired if he was a positive influence?
     
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  10. Samnz

    Samnz Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Exactly. With films like the previous Star Wars movies, which - according to Lucas - consciously put a strong focus on the visuals and the music, the direction of concept artitst, the guys at ILM, sound designers etc. is at least as important as the direction of actors.

    Take the music for example: It's not like John Williams wrote whatever music he wanted. Quite the contrary, Lucas and Williams would go though the whole film, determing what the music and its function should be - vey similar to the work with actors on set.
    John Willams

    That's in no way supposed to take away all these people's contributions, but since people are so fast to blame Lucas for lousy acting in Star Wars, they should be fair enough to give him also credit for components like the music - because it's essentially the same working relationship (director/actor and director/componist e.g.).
     
    Valairy Scot, Bob Octa and T-R- like this.
  11. SimitarLikeTusk

    SimitarLikeTusk Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 10, 2014
    As far as satire or character work goes, I feel this is pretty weak.
     
  12. CheelBackFromTheDead

    CheelBackFromTheDead Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 4, 2012
    I didn't give Lucas 10%. Don't take things so literally man. Obviously I didn't mean what I said. Where would I put the actors, the costume designers, etc. etc. in there ? I'm just saying Star Wars has been shaped by many, and exists almost as its own living thing now. It doesn't need Lucas anymore. That's at least what I think Disney thinks. Especially after paying so much money for it.

    Dykstra and Lucas didn't see eye to eye on everything. Dykstra still won an Oscar for his work. And as far as Kurtz and Lucas go, I'm sure things are more complex than they appear, as they ALWAYS are.
     
  13. Young Yoda

    Young Yoda Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 4, 2014
    I wonder why there is such speculation. There isn't any reliable source which tell that Lucas' outlines has been thrown away.

    With one storyline, you can write very different screenplays (look at the writing of The Empire Strikes Back). Alan Horn confirmed a few weeks ago that Lucas was still consulted.

    So it seems to me these are just wet dreams from people who don't like Lucas. Nothing serious.
     
  14. CheelBackFromTheDead

    CheelBackFromTheDead Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 4, 2012
    Again with these or/or situations. One can say Lucas has lost it without saying they don't like him or appreciate what he's done.

    Obviously Lucas is being consulted, but to what extent, no one can really know. I know I wouldn't take any writing tip from XXIst century Lucas, but hey. That's just me.
     
  15. J.J.Abrams

    J.J.Abrams Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 12, 2014
    Lucas was the director and he chose to hire these people, therefore he is automatically involved in almost every aspect. The composers, designers and actors are all tools for the director to achieve his final product.
     
  16. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Agree or disagree with George's creative decisions (dialogue/direction what ever) you have to give him credit that as a businessman, he is savvy as all **** (probably would have been lethal if he'd gone into law). You can bet any contract he had written up regarding his 'child' was airlock tight. If he wanted Disney to sign off on 'no major character will appear in a blue room' you'd better believe it would be in there.
     
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  17. Gamma626

    Gamma626 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 6, 2014
    Even with the prequel debacle, George is a story teller, and a damn good one. His problem has always been in excecution. He could easily write an outline for 7-9, and the scripts can end up fantastic. Lucas was given to much freedom with no resistance, and even still, the prequels managed to have some great moments in them. Even his outlines for the prequels likely wouldn't be that bad.
     
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  18. CheelBackFromTheDead

    CheelBackFromTheDead Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 4, 2012
    No, they're people with the tools to achieve your vision. Slightly less autocratic and despising view on things. But they're also people with talent, personal taste and vision. McQuarrie has set the look of Star Wars. I can't see words describe SW better than his drawings. But his drawings show not only George's ideas, they also show his own, not to mention his background as an engeneer. Same goes for Williams. Same goes for every major collaborator. They're not tools, they're artists with a major influence on the final film, and arguably as meaningful as Lucas uniting and leading all these people (which he didn't do by himself either).
     
  19. Dewback

    Dewback Force Ghost star 4

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    Jul 18, 1998
    To me, the comment " they had a lot of potential," is a more tactful way of saying there is room for improvement. Based on the supposed controversy with Arndt it is probably safer to assume that the story has changed considerably since George's treatment (which George apparently "acquiesced to"). I think they probably mined the original outline for ideas but I doubt they are contractually obligated to follow his story. Nothing from those quotes above implies that. George knows that and probably doesn't have much of a problem with it.
     
    CheelBackFromTheDead likes this.
  20. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    george has plenty of say he's just distancing himself so all the rabid fanboy haters can't blame him for everything they don't like.
     
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  21. CheelBackFromTheDead

    CheelBackFromTheDead Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 4, 2012
    Yeah, and it's only natural to turn to the original creator for a little guidance at first. It's about showing some respect.
     
  22. Palpatine2016

    Palpatine2016 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2012
    The "buying my stories is part of what the deal is" part makes me think that there was a contractual understanding that those stories will be put to use.
     
  23. J.J.Abrams

    J.J.Abrams Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 12, 2014
    Agreed, I actually thought the story for The Phantom Menace was good for the most part, it just felt like it didn't get a comb through/ass kicking by a second writer and was left with gaping holes as a result of that. For a start I think it would have been on the right track if the acting/dialogue was better, practical effects were used as much as possible, Jar Jar was removed and Anakin was made older. Along with it taking place somewhere other than Naboo, Obi Wan being made close to an older Anakin's age and the main protagonist.. I think those basic things would made it decent.
     
  24. CheelBackFromTheDead

    CheelBackFromTheDead Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 4, 2012
    That amounts to many failures for a good storyteller. A good storyteller, movie-wise, is someone who can tell a story with the means of cinema. Not just write a good treatment. Lucas did need to be provoked, and wasn't.
     
  25. Baron_Papanerd

    Baron_Papanerd Jedi Master star 4

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    May 1, 2014

    I agree; there are a couple of lines from the above that confirms this.

    "Buying my stories is part of what the deal is." - Lucas

    "Once Lucas got assurances from Disney in writing about the broad outlines of the deal, he agreed to turn over the treatments."
     
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