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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Awards What do you think of Award threads?

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by Sara_Kenobi, Apr 17, 2002.

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  1. Mistress_Renata

    Mistress_Renata Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2000
    But something Mar and I have talked about should be brought up, since you mentioned this. We want to contact each nominee and get an excerpt from the story nominated and post it, along with a link to the story, in the thread announcing the nominees. That way each voter will have easy access to something that each nominee has written.

    This, I think, is the best of all the proposed revisions. Similar things in other awards threads have led me to good stories I wouldn't normally look at (I'm not an Anakin fan, but I am enjoying "Shades of Gold," for example).


     
  2. ArnaKyle

    ArnaKyle Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Oh what the heck, I might as well comment.

    I personally don't have a problem with the award shows, because I do think they credit some of the excellent fics out there. What everyone has displayed concerns in with cliques and one-sided voting, this is very well true; however, I feel that if a story is just plain not good, it won't win. I'm not saying that the story that wins is always the best, and I'm not saying that it's a "superb" fic. However, to achieve enough votes to win, it most likely isn't going to be awful.

    It would be nice for the "best" story to win each time, but "best" is a relative term. Everyone has their own opinion as to what really is superior to other fics. The nice thing about the closed voting though, I feel that it'll stop "crowd voters" who have never actually read a story, but vote for it anyway because "everyone else is." Mar and Mely are two very honorable people, and I am positive there will be no problems with vote countings. No need to bring in the chads. ;)

    Like Mar said, so many categories will really help show off MORE fics. I know that I rarely stray past NJO and the occasional H/L, so I'd love to see what fics everyone likes in OTHER genres. As a prehistory author myself, I think it's terrific that these "off-color" fics are getting a chance at recognition. I know that once the awards are announced, I'll definately be checking out some of the winners.

    Really, I don't think of the awards as a matter of popularity or showering of compliments. If the author can act rational about winning (I have no problem about them noting it in their biography or signature), then it's not so much a "mememememe" thing. I consider the award shows a great chance at reading some of the most well-liked and quality fanfiction around. :)
     
  3. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    I absolutely agree with you, Arna, and thank you for your support. :)
     
  4. jodiwent

    jodiwent Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2000
    I know I will not be popular for saying this but,

    I think it is ironic that Sara_Kenobi started a thread asking about the award threads and what people think of them, and the same group of people who ran the last one, that many were turned off by, are taking over the thread and turning it into a planning thread for the next one.

    You don't get it do you? That is the same kind of action that turns people off.
     
  5. Darth_Tim

    Darth_Tim Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2002
    I think it is ironic that Sara_Kenobi started a thread asking about the award threads and what people think of them, and the same group of people who ran the last one, that many were turned off by, are taking over the thread and turning it into a planning thread for the next one.

    You don't get it do you? That is the same kind of action that turns people off. >>

    And who *else* had offered to run the awards this time?

    -Tim
     
  6. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    and the same group of people who ran the last one, that many were turned off by, are taking over the thread and turning it into a planning thread for the next one

    Sorry, but neither Mely nor myself ran the last Awards. And if I remember correctly, there was no planning thread for the last one (I may be mistaken, if that is so, please correct me).

    The reason we're "turning this into planning thread" (which, by the way, was not our intention, we merely want to inform people of our plans and try to get their views on this) is that we want as many opinions as possible, because only that way we can make the awards enjoyable and fair.

    However, I appreciate your opinion on this, jodiwent. What we seek is dialogue, we don't bash people if they have negative opinion. As I said before, we want to improve the Awards, and we can do that only with everyone's help.
     
  7. DarthLothi

    DarthLothi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2001
    Ah, the awards.

    Not sure what the big deal is. Some people like them, some people don't. If you like them, by all means participate and have fun with it. If you don't, quitcher gripin' and move on to the next activity. No one is forcing you to show up.
     
  8. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    I sort of ran the last one. Couldn't have done it without Di-Lee :)
     
  9. jodiwent

    jodiwent Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2000
    I am just putting a different point of view out here. One that is not popular and people who are afraid they will not be liked if they say it, won't say it.

    There seems to be two different oppinions of the boards some who want it to be really structured and some who just want it to be more natural and flowing.

    I don't know if I am getting that across.

    I have not desier or intiention of having anything to do with an award thread. And as for Tim saying who is going to run them? No one else has volunteered. If I don't care about them why would I?

    You are all going to do what you are going to do anyway. If you want to run it run it, and the ones who care will pay attention, the ones who don't won't.

    This is not just about the awards, it is about board politics. And I don't show up to those threads. I do get on with my other activities, and this is a free board I (and anyone else) can GRIPE all I want.
     
  10. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    I am just putting a different point of view out here. One that is not popular and people who are afraid they will not be liked if they say it, won't say it.

    And we absolutely respect that, jodiwent. That's why we're "bothering to talk to people". If we didn't care about the people's opinions, we'd just start the Awards, and maybe they'd turn into popularity contest again. What the heck.

    But we don't want the Awards to become popularity contest. That's our main goal. To acknowledge those who deserve to be acknowledged without turning the Awards into popularity contest.
     
  11. DarthLothi

    DarthLothi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2001
    I do get on with my other activities, and this is a free board I (and anyone else) can GRIPE all I want.

    Noted. [face_plain] Next.
     
  12. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    All right, let's all calm down, okay? I don't want this to turn into insulting each other.

    Everybody has right for his/her own opinion, but remember that non-constructive criticism and extreme negative attitude has never helped make anything better.
     
  13. jodiwent

    jodiwent Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2000
    BTW Darth_Tim I never said they shouldn't run an award thread, I just thought it would be better if they had opened their own planning thread.

    Mar17swgirl you sound sinsere. I hope you do a good job with the awards, and they do not become clique thing again.
     
  14. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    jodiwent, I think there's no point in opening another planning thread now, when we're having all discussion in this one.

    And I can assure you, Mely and I are doing our best to prevent that. :)
     
  15. Padawan_Di-Lee

    Padawan_Di-Lee Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2000
    Mar, there was a planning thread for the last awards. It was short and sweet, starting with a question by Gandolf if anybody was interested, then a question of who would run them with Gandolf volunteering to be the host and me volunteering to assist in anyway he thought I could. There was also a brief discussion of the categories to be included and the voting process to be used.

    I don't think there was anything clique oriented in the process used or in Gandolf's presentation of the awards, though as Herman pointed out, the "show" approach might have encouraged it. What made the awards seem so cliquish last year was, well, some of the folks that showed up in the threads.

    Darth_Tim, as far as no else volunteering to run this round, I don't remember there being a discussion anywhere about who might be interested in running them. Not that I think there should be, quite the opposite. That would simply be ridiculus. If someone wants to run them, the *most* I think a person should do is check with the fanfic mod and the person who ran the last go-around, then open a planning thread. (Mely and Mar have done that, I think.) But anyone who steps up to run them is taking on quite a task and opening themselves to criticism, particularly after last year. While there are always folks who don't care for the idea of awards at all due to the inherent popularity factor, there were extreme examples of award shortcomings last time. There are legitimate reasons for folks to be extra wary of the process and participants this go-around, though Mely and Mar seem to be going to extremes to attempt to satisfy those concerns.

    *sigh* I think this horse is beat into the grave and beyond. And still I keep coming back here. I'm not sure why, maybe it's because I used to enjoy the awards and wish they could be fun for everyone (well as many as possible) again.

    Mely & Mar, just do your best with running the awards. In the end, folks will decide for themselves when they see threads if they want to participate or not.
     
  16. Melyanna

    Melyanna Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2001
    jodiwent: First of all, neither Mar nor I had anything to do with the organization of last year's awards. Our intention was never to turn this into a planning thread for the next awards. We figured that since there was a healthy discussion of people concerned about it here, we would simply present our ideas here. Even now, I don't think this is a planning thread at all. It's still very much discussion-oriented, because no decisions are being made here. We're just posting here because we want feedback from those who have concerned, intelligent, rational opinions to present. Having said that, if others feel the same way that you do, we will open a new thread.

    Tim: I don't know if anyone else voluteered to do this. I know that I made a comment about volunteering to host this year's awards sometime after the last awards. Mar approached me about it, wanting to know if I was still willing to do it, about a month ago. From what I understood, she had already cleared it with the powers that be.

    jodiwent:

    I am just putting a different point of view out here. One that is not popular and people who are afraid they will not be liked if they say it, won't say it.


    Several well-known, popular authors have expressed concerns about the awards. What makes you think that a dissident view on the awards will hurt popularity?

    There seems to be two different oppinions of the boards some who want it to be really structured and some who just want it to be more natural and flowing.


    My personal opinion is that the awards need more structure to avoid the Homecoming fiasco of last year.

    You are all going to do what you are going to do anyway.


    If we're just going to do what we want to do, why are we soliciting opinions at all?

    This is not just about the awards, it is about board politics.


    I'm not sure what you mean by this.

    And I don't show up to those threads. I do get on with my other activities, and this is a free board I (and anyone else) can GRIPE all I want.


    I'm not denying your right to complain about things, but if you don't show up to these threads, why are you complaining about them? They can be ignored with far less energy.

    Di-Lee:

    I don't think there was anything clique oriented in the process used or in Gandolf's presentation of the awards, though as Herman pointed out, the "show" approach might have encouraged it. What made the awards seem so cliquish last year was, well, some of the folks that showed up in the threads.


    I'd have to agree with you there. I just spent the better part of an hour rereading the entire awards show thread, and I had forgotten how clique-ish it really was. (Man, clique seems to be the catch-word for this thread, doesn't it?)

    What can we do about it? I don't know. I think Mcily hit the nail on the head very early on in this thread - we need more people to vote. But with the sour taste that was left in the mouths of many after last year's awards, I'm not sure how we can accomplish this. I wish we could host this in the stories board, where the readers are, but I seriously doubt that Julie will allow that. It belongs here... and there. I don't know what to do there.



    Thanks for your comments, guys, and for the support that many of you have shown.

    Mel
     
  17. Herman Snerd

    Herman Snerd Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 1999
    By all means keep this stuff out of the stories forum. You mentioned that it's not that difficult to just ignore these types of threads. Well, it's not any stretch of the imagination to assume that some fanficcers prefer to just ignore this entire forum, and cross-pollution doesn't really solve anything.

    It's a tad hypocritical to promote awards threads over there when any other non-story thread gets locked. (other than the index)

    There are already examples of people who know that their thread doesn't belong in Stories, but put it there anyway because they deem their issues to be "important" enough for "everyone to see."
     
  18. Ginger_Jedi

    Ginger_Jedi Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2001
    I hope you do a good job with the awards, and they do not become clique thing again

    Yeah that's the thing I feel about this particular forum. It's got cliques and I've never noticed that anywhere else in the JC. I think that's why I feel uncomfortable posting here- I feel like a total outsider.

    If there has to be awards perhaps there should be some kind of rules. I don't know. I still prefer the idea of not having them in general.
     
  19. Daughter_Of_TheForce

    Daughter_Of_TheForce Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2001
    My sentiments exactly, Ginger_Jedi.
     
  20. Ginger_Jedi

    Ginger_Jedi Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2001
    It's a problem I feel needs addressing.
     
  21. Melyanna

    Melyanna Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2001
    Ginger Jedi:

    Yeah that's the thing I feel about this particular forum. It's got cliques and I've never noticed that anywhere else in the JC. I think that's why I feel uncomfortable posting here- I feel like a total outsider.


    I don't think this is the proper context in which to discuss this, since we're talking specifically about the awards. However, I don't see this place as more clique-oriented than, say, the EUC or rhe JCC. But here and there, I know of no groups that have exclusive membership. The writing groups here are completely open to all members. They just tend to attract certain kinds of people.

    But we digress.

    If there has to be awards perhaps there should be some kind of rules. I don't know. I still prefer the idea of not having them in general.


    We're trying to come up with rules. That's why we're having this discussion.
     
  22. Qwi_Xux

    Qwi_Xux Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Wow...

    Well, this seems to have brought up a very heated argument. I will admit, there are a lot of authors who don't get recognized by the awards, but that doesn't mean their writing isn't fantastic. But as Arna said, the "Best" is such a relative term. People really do have so many different opinions, and we're only getting to see SOME peoples' opinions. So as Mcily said, we really do need more voters who have read a wide range of things.

    But does that mean that the awards are wrong? No. They're supposed to be fun--a chance to recognize even just a select few of the many, many wonderful authors on the boards. And the more votes you have, the more authors that get nominated, the more chance we'll have to discover even more writers on here.

    And my profound thanks to Mely and Mar, both of whom I trust to be honorable and upstanding members of the boards. You two are doing an awesome job to try to accomodate everybody, and listening to their opinions and integrating some of them into this ceremony.

    Remember, these awards are only opinions of readers. Try not to take them so seriously, or say you don't care, and yet bash them to pieces. Yes, the boards are free and it is your right to complain all you want, but if you don't care about the awards and thus, don't want to volunteer for hosting them, what's the point in bashing the hosts we have?

    I, personally, would like to catch a glimpse of a few of the stories on here, and to hopefully discover some new authors. It's not about MY fics--I'm not expecting to get nominated. Yes, writing is my passion, but if someone doesn't vote for me, am I going to assume I'm a horrible author? No. It just gives me the opportunity to see other authors' work. I'm going to be happy for them--because I'm getting a small glimpse at their passion. :)
     
  23. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    I think that it?s indisputable that there were certain? camps? in the last awards show that bordered on Bloc-voting (Rhetorical question: how many votes did Strands Of Time: Test Of Time get?).

    Are there cliques here? Probably not from their point of view ? but then, how many cliques see themselves as such? Membership is by no means exclusive; new people can certainly join up. But there is a definite sense that this is a very tight-knit community, and that sort of community can be scary to approach or deal with.
     
  24. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    Talking about cliques...

    I know that there are many tight-knit groups here, but it's certainly not as bad as in PSA (I've seen many newbies flamed and bashed because they asked an obvious question or something), YJCC or EU.
     
  25. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    I wouldn?t say that Literature or PSA is cliquish. PSA just has little tolerance for ignorance; Newbies get flamed for asking questions that have been asked umpteen billion times already, not because they?re new. The discussion in Literature is varied enough that it doesn?t get cliquish. Yes, some people naturally gravitate towards different parts of the EU, but in general, most everyone discusses most everything.

    YJCC is cliquish, but it?s also big enough that it takes some time posting there to really even realize that the cliques exist. The forums here that I consider to be truly cliquish are the EUC and Games forums. Everyone just goes to their favorite fan-clubs in the EUC, and the Games forum is an even more distinct and tightly knit subculture than Fanfiction (Force Boat, anyone?).
     
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