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ST What Do You Think Of The Dyad?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by ScorpioGirl, Sep 20, 2020.

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What do you think of the Dyad?

  1. I like the idea

    39 vote(s)
    33.9%
  2. Hate the idea and hope they never bring it up again

    54 vote(s)
    47.0%
  3. Neutral

    22 vote(s)
    19.1%
  1. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    *looks at poll options*

    I detect a SLIGHT imbalance there...

    I'm neutral, though. The basic idea is neat and adds to the world-building, but it doesn't really affect the story, does it? I mean, Sidious does use the Dyad to restore his power, so technically, it does serve a function, but beyond that?
    I guess it's implied that the Dyad is supposed to take up the mantle of the Chosen One, but it ultimately makes no difference that it's a Dyad, because it's really all about Rey anyway. She is Anakin's successor, she brings the Force back into balance. Ben is just there to assist her.

    The concept of the Dyad, as presented in TROS, lacks substance. It was a nice thought and that seems to have been enough for Abrams and Terrio.

    It could be further developed in the future, though.
     
    Jedi Knight Fett likes this.
  2. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    I think it's contrived.

    It was probably done to placate those that found issues with Rey's sudden fondness for Kylo, when moments before seeing him shirtless he was 'a monster' and 'a murderous snake' for killing Han Solo.

    So, how do you solve that in universe 'the dyad did it, that should shut everyone up'
     
  3. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    That is actually part of the reason I have mixed feelings on the relationship part of it; on the one hand, it still has to pretend a relationship exists, but on the other, it just flat out directly ties it to space magic rather than characterization.

    I appreciate the fact it doesn’t insult me by pretending they have a natural rapport, genuine similarities, or believable attraction... but I still begrudge the fact it insists they still have an artificially created rapport, materialized-from-nowhere similarity, and magically mandated attraction.:p

    The idea of the Dyad would be realized much better in a story where the bond and connection was *also* a natural rapport, genuine similarity, and believable attraction - at least in part because then you could play a much more explicit “chick and egg” situation about how and why it existed, but also render the connection between the character as not needing magic to exist. The power interchange and all that is just good sci-fi-fantasy gobbledygook, but the relationship part is what strains it as presented by the ST.
     
  4. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I rather like the idea as a precursor to the Rule of Two, as per the TROS VD, but it really should have been mentioned before the finale film(!)
     
    Lulu Mars and MarcJordan like this.
  5. Darth_Foo

    Darth_Foo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Picked neutral, I like the idea of the Dyad but not the execution. Reminds me of the "force bond" in the Knights of the Old Republic games. If only TFA of TLJ introduced the idea then there could've been some good drama with how if either of the dyad gets hurt or dies the other suffers as well.
     
  6. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I wish I had two extra arms so I could give this idea four thumbs down.
     
  7. NOTJEDIMATERIAL

    NOTJEDIMATERIAL Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 3, 2018
    It was a decent idea I believe in theory but as others have posted it didn't really amount to much good for the story. Like so many ideas in this trilogy it just didn't matter much.
     
  8. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Eh, the more I think about this, the less I really like it. Largely because the Rule of Two as it's portrayed in the Darth Bane trilogy distills the philosophies purported by the Sith either directly or indirectly in an effective and compelling fashion. I've seen many refer to the Rule of Two as an "unlikely" and "insane" solution to whatever problems Bane saw in his order but frankly, it fits the Sith like a glove. Having it be an ideological invention rather than rooted in some Force lore is a downgrade because it blunts the thematic implications of it as it was originally shown.
     
    wobbits and Riv_Shiel like this.
  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I mean even Legends implied the Sith survived as Two between Traya and Ruin. It does work as a cyclic idea.
     
  10. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    The implication seems to be: this was not the first dyad. There was a dyad once, a long time ago, and those two people were sith.

    The Rule of Two (master>apprentice) was how the sith survived. Before that, a dyad Rule of Two: a dyarchy. A co-Rule. What Vader and Kylo wanted ('join me'; ruling together)

    Hence the two wayfinders and the 'prophesized' dyad. Looks like some prophesized revenge of the sith...against the sith.

    The guy in Exegol. Dyarchy vs monarchy (Emperor, the Rule of One) Apparently, both the dyad people and the Exegol guy were destroyed. But the dyad and the Exegol guy would return. Hence the 'prophesized dyad' and the wayfinders. Also, according to Palpatine that old throne was his by blood (according to the mizzlewump leak, the sith had been founded by 'Ruin', ancestor of Palpatine. Ruin/Ren)

    Both Maul and Obi-Wan believed in the chosen one (Maul's last moments in Rebels). It was Luke.

    So maybe that happened with Kylo. Accordimg to Mark Hamill, Luke believed Ben to be the chosen one, and the prophesized dyad would be the same idea from a dark side (Maul-esque) POV.
     
  11. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    It didn't shut me up. I still find Rey's attraction to Kylo Ren just days after the events of "The Force Awakens' rather repulsive and unrealistic. What the hell was Rian Johnson thinking?

    Why would Luke believe Ben was supposed to be the Chosen One? You mean to say that he never found out about how the prophesy related to his father?
     
  12. dolphin

    dolphin Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 1999
    If a vergence of the Force is valid and powerful enough to create life imagine then a 'dyad' is not far off from previously established canon.
     
  13. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Exactly that. It’s a huge contrivance that adds pretty much nothing to the story and plot, other than a way to artificially connect Rey and Kylo above and beyond their (seemingly) physical attraction. They would have been much better (IMO) trying to work the ‘son of the suns’ into the ST as a concept... that would have at least had connective tissue.
     
  14. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    A ‘dyad’ is whatever they decide it should be in future stories, if it ever comes up again.

    I don’t think anything can be read into the term spec-wise considering it was just a last minute ad hoc way to explain the connection.
     
    Jedi_Fenrir767 likes this.
  15. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I didn’t hate it. Two chosen of a generation is at least something different.

    Like others have said I wish it was more utilised.

    I think part of the implication of the dyad was that Kylo learned compassion from Rey. So when she transferred energy to heal him she also transferred the idea of selflessness. (Maybe not literally transferred but learnt through their closeness).
    In resurrecting Rey, Ben then gives her more of himself than she previously gave him. Shared energy.
    At least that is my reading.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
    MarcJordan likes this.
  16. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    The prophecy was related to balance.

    'For many years there was balance', says Luke. 'Then I found Ben' . 'Then' means here, I think, 'after that balance was disrupted'.

    So, in theory, a Chosen One was needed according to the prophecy. Luke maybe saw himself as a teacher/mentor, just what Obi-Wan had been to Anakin.

    Ben would have been the future, and balance being restored, much like PT Anakin.
    The idea is also in the TLJ novel:
    This we don't know. Maybe he did. Or maybe he thought himself to had been the chosen one, or both. But a)his father was now gone and b)unbalance had returned. That's the chosen one idea, again. Ben, the future, and not himself.

    Luke didn't know much about jedi lore before ROTJ, and after that he was alone: the last jedi. That made him vulnerable, and he was misled somehow I think.

    This is Snoke in the TLJ novel:
    That's Luke in some of the books. Ken Liu's novel for example. He's called 'Seeker' in one of the stories.

    Or, that blue lightsaber finding its way back to him in the comics, together with 'follow your destiny' spoken to him in a vision.

    Vader was the chosen one as Vader, according to Lucas. A sith chosen one. A prophesized chosen one+'join me'=prophesized dyad. Vader>Luke; Kylo>Rey.

    This seems to be the pattern; but, of course, dyads and prophecies are either darkness-related (dyad>rule of two) or equivocal at best when applied to jedi affairs.
     
  17. MarcJordan

    MarcJordan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2014
    I think the Dyad was starting to be present In TLJ. Kylo says “can you see my surroundings? I can’t see yours.” Later they almost touch hands. Regardless what Snoke said he has no real idea how close they became (hand touch) In TROS it’s even more escalated. First Kylo grabs the necklace (where he’s on the Steadfast in his quarters and Rey in Pasanna where it darkens).

    Their relationship is symbiotic I dare to say.

    Later they fight where she’s in his “lighted” quarters while he’s in the darkness of Kijimi. The Environments intermingled as they spare.

    As it progresses the healing by Rey , her hand over of Anakin’s saver to Ben and Ben’s sacrifice.

    I liked it.

    MJ
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
  18. TheGhostOfZero

    TheGhostOfZero Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2016
    It'd be cool if the Dyad was intrinsically tied to the Chosen One, where the Dyad would represent the spirit of Anakin split between two reincarnations since he died killing Palpatine the first time.
     
  19. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Last-minute hail-mary to try to explain why Rey and Kylo are connected since DLF nixed the notion of them being related.
     
  20. paradigmes

    paradigmes Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2021
    I think that a Force dyad bond is a nice concept. The idea that two beings are connected in the Force and when they come together, they are far more strong than as individuals is worthy of a story. But the execution was not too good. As the member above me says, it felt like a desperate attempt to salvage something. The concept needed to be established at the start of the story, and the two people connected needed to have more of a mythical reason to be bonded. For example, they either needed to be related or maybe even just born to different parents at the exact same time as each other. Something like this. It needed to be much more profound to work. But it became just a kind of shrug shoulders and one line from the Emperor so it didn't really work too good. It would have worked better if Rey and Finn were the exact same age and the Force brought them together to bond them against the evil of Kylo Ren. Bonding Rey to Kylo Ren was confusing to me.
     
  21. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    The idea that they learn things from one another now has a solid explanation.

    I have a theory that like Rey learned some of her force abilities from Kylo, among other things, Kylo/Ben learnt to be compassionate possibly through Rey.

    With Rey first accessing her potential while forcibly in each others minds in TFA.

    Rey does the force-freeze to Kylo’s saber dueling on the DS2 ruins, for example.

    Rey individually learns to heal others, which leads to Ben Solo healing her back from death.
    The two that are one sharing a life force at two points in TROS, each time one heals the other.
     
    MarcJordan likes this.
  22. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    Lots of the stuff surrounding Rey was a mystery box. Who she is. Where she came from. Who her parents are. Why she's so adept in the ways of the force. But then TLJ didn't treat any of these things as mysteries. In TLJ, Rey just is.

    A mystery box is a set up and the answer is the pay off. When your middle chapter treats the set ups like they aren't setting anything up, then the audience is no longer concerned with the answers. TLJ cut the legs out from under the mystery box setups in TFA and so the TROS payoffs felt lackluster.
     
  23. KyloLukeLeia

    KyloLukeLeia Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2020
    I'm fine with 'the Dyad', just as I was fine with the 'balance' plot line, just as fine with Finn leaving as a Stormtrooper, just as I was fine with the line 'good guys, bad guys, it's all the same...." The problem is none of these ideas were developed for 3 movies, or designed to be an over-reaching arc of the Trilogy.
     
  24. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    I really like some of the parallel choreography here. I just wish it was staged and edited a bit cleaner.

     
    HevyDevy likes this.
  25. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    This just reinforces the idea that she didn't ever have to train and learn, she could just download her power from being inside Kylo's mind. I hate that this is how the first female Jedi protagonist is presented especially combined with Kylo's narcissicism and negging that she falls for.

    The healing power is ridiculous too. It doesn't take into consideration what it does to the previous films. Rey can heal a worm's injuries? Ben can heal her back from death? Why didn't someone teach this power to Anakin so he could save his mother? That would have mitigated his fear over losing Padme and then there never would have been a Vader and an Empire.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021