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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST What do you think of the fact that Han and Leia were no longer together in the Sequel Trilogy?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by DarthVist, Feb 26, 2021.

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  1. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    This is where I think the disconnect comes from. Because as far as I can tell, the state of the galaxy as a whole is in worse shape after the ST than it was after ROTJ. So as far as the greater good is concerned, whatever was gained in exchange for transitioning them from alive to dead doesn’t seem to have been worth it in the end. It’s sort of like when TCW had Tarpals sacrifice himself to capture General Grievous. Not a terrible concept in and of itself, but incredibly pointless in setting where Grievous has invincible plot armor and was free by the next episode. In the bigger picture nothing was gained at all, which makes it feel less like a sacrifice and more like a waste.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    He was great in The Report and I have not seen BlacKkKlansman yet, but I have heard good things. He was even good on SNL.

    Kylo gets on my last nerve and has a lot of characteristics that I hate on screen and in real life plus I hate the writing narrative around him. But none of that is Driver’s fault.
     
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  3. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 15, 2012
    i just think it's ironic that critics of the ST used exactly the same words to criticise Anakin/Hayden in PT..at least kylo doesn't moan about sand! tbh I found Luke a bit whiny in the OT.. obviously a family trait.. why i was more of a Han fan growing up
     
  4. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    I'm at peace. That's why I'm able to discuss the movies, both good and bad parts. You don't see me getting angry do you?

    The Skywalkers are whiney people. At least I get why Anakin and Luke whine. As much as I don't like it. I have no idea what Kylo is whining about. Having to be a good person. Ohhh boo hoo.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  5. AlliyahSkywalker

    AlliyahSkywalker Jedi Grand Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2004
    I agree. I`m not blaming him for the character. Just sometimes a character that really annoys me (on paper) has an actor that somehow transcends that for me a little bit. Driver was not such a case. Maybe for the Kylo character, that wasn`t possible for me. Could be.
     
  6. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 13, 2004
    Double post please delete.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  7. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    See, I'm not sure we can tell this.

    I think that we have a rosy "happily ever after" version of the galaxy after ROTJ (spurred on by Lucas's Special Edition additions?). Yet, we really weren't shown what the immediate, or long term, aftermath of ROTJ was.

    As The Mandalorian has shown us (and the old EU did before this) the galaxy actually became a lot more dangerous after the fall of The Empire.

    I cannot tell if you are angry or not. I'm not sure if I've ever seen you discuss anything you thought was good about these films. It's a lot of negativity mostly. Which is your prerogative. I apologize if I misread your intent and am glad that you are a peace with the Star Wars, the Sequel Trilogy, etc.
     
  8. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    I'm not angry. Nor am I negative. I'm discussing movies critically, analyzing their good and bad parts. And I've gone on a lot about what I like about SW. And still like about SW. I love Mando. I'm excited for Ahsoka and especially about Obi-wan series coming up.
     
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  9. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 24, 2019
    We aren’t shown what the aftermath of TROS is either. At the very least, there is not a single reason given anywhere in the ST to believe that the post TROS galaxy will be any better off than it was post ROTJ. At best we’re back to the same point but without Luke, Leía, Han, etc. Presumably they should have been assets towards galactic peace so if it didn’t work out then why would it work out now?
    I mean, the Mandalorian was written after the ST so it’s not exactly evidence of anything new in that regard. But anyways, however much the New Republic sucked, I don’t think it’s accurate to say things got more dangerous than when the government could just pull up to your planet and blow it up on a whim. Whatever level of disorder fostered under them can’t be worse than their successors, which the ST is incredibly vague as to whether that’s The Newer Republic or just galactic anarchy.
     
  10. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    I don't disagree with you here. Yet, this is different than your original statement.... "the state of the galaxy as a whole is in worse shape after the ST than it was after ROTJ."

    We simply don't know this one way or the other based on the limited (and newly written) post ROTJ lore and the (so far) non existent post TROS lore.

    I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

    For example: Many countries in this world could wipe my city off the map with a nuclear weapon. Yet, a rapidly escalating rate of violent crime, or a corrupt police force brutalizing citizens, would cause me to worry more and thus, seem more dangerous.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  11. PendragonM

    PendragonM Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    If you believe the ST honors Luke, Han and Leia and that their legacy and legend is passed on in it, then, no, I will never understand your point of view. I don’t understand, and I never will, how it’s “deeper and more fabled” that Luke, Han and Leia each die alone, never reunited, their lives in ruins, trying to save the boy man who destroyed everything they tried to build and who ripped them apart. How anyone who calls themselves a fan of those characters thinks that’s a good thing will never cease to baffle me. How JJ got away with never reuniting them and tearing up Han and Leia, and Rian finished the job with Luke, and they got praise for what they did will always be a mystery to me.
     
  12. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 13, 2020
    I am a fan of the characters, but their story is the Original Trilogy and that won't ever change. They become residual, supporting characters only in the Sequel Trilogy, and were never promised or destined for some great reunion and adventure of their own. I was surprised that their appearances in the Sequel Trilogy were actually as involved as they were, as prior to The Force Awakens, I only expected maybe a walk-on cameo for each of them in that movie only. Han got a good run in The Force Awakens and Luke's turn in The Last Jedi for me, was awesome. Fate had other things in store for Leia due to Carrie Fisher's death, but I am sure that she would have had a far more involved appearance in Episode 9 otherwise.

    I don't agree that the characters were destroyed, torn apart, denigrated, ruined or anything like that. They have become "last generation" characters, and as such they generally die to make room for the newer ones. That's how these things go.

    I am truly sorry for you that you don't like these movies and the fate of the characters that you love so much. Have you ever considered posting in the Classic Trilogy forum where you can talk more positively about them and the movies that they appear in?
     
  13. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    as will your point of view to me or others . You didn't get the story you wanted, some of us were happy with it.. Lots of people couldn't understand why some people liked the PT... its no different. no matter how many debates are had our entrenched viewpoints won't change. Only time may possibly do that. I expected them all to die, I expected a dark side evil skywalker I got more Palpatine involvement.. i didn't particularly want a happy ending and I got Ford gloriously reprising Solo, Deckard and hopefully indy on matter of a decade
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  14. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    That’s what it was about. Disney/Lucasfilm thought they could maximise interest by forcing all these characters into the ST... and of course that approach/marketing worked for TFA, but it ultimately blew the wider story (IMO), to the point that the ST is about nothing, and achieves little... partly because the writers couldn’t accommodate the writing required to make the stories/arcs, for circa 7 characters, meaningful. And in the end that damaged Rey and Kylo as much as it damaged Luke and Leia...

    The terms ‘hater’, ‘buthurt fanboy’ etc. are thrown around regularly by ‘some’ that seem to take criticisms of the ST as a personal insult to them. Indeed, ‘you don’t like SW then’, is as base a debating point as one can make... and often fails to take into account that many (including me), whom believe the ST are poorly conceived/executed SW films, actually (shock horror) like and enjoy The Mandalorian, Rogue One etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  15. PendragonM

    PendragonM Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    That was what I was expecting too, when they announced the new movie in 2012. I wish that was what we'd gotten.

    Yes, if you have a lack of vision and imagination. Oh, look, I just described LFL.

    I'm not going anywhere (Han Solo voice).
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  16. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 13, 2020
    Who would the others of this section aspire to if you did? (Kylo voice) [face_laugh]
     
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  17. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    @PendragonM

    Again, I am sorry that you don't like the ST. I am glad that I don't share your viewpoint, nor your feelings about the ST.

    As I have said before: Like @Lobot's Wig, I had no strong preconceived expectations of what Han, Luke, and Leia would be doing in the ST. I assumed that their roles would be similar to what Obi-Wan and Yoda did in the OT. What we got was not too far off, and I was actually surprised that we got as much of these characters as we did.
     
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  18. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 13, 2020
    This is going to sound counter-intuitive, but I also think that if I were writing The Force Awakens, or any of the Sequel Trilogy, I would be very conscious and careful of not putting Han, Luke and Leia together in any scenario which might end up feeling like a SNL sketch. Any attempt to reunite the old characters is going to be fraught with a familiarity-breeds-contempt type risk, whereby the more earnest you try to make it appear, the more it appears like a spoof. That is simply because the three of them are so engrained in pop-culture. To that end then, they did a really good job with them as far as I can see, because it could have gone really wrong.
     
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  19. PendragonM

    PendragonM Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    I honestly don't know what movie you saw because it DID go "really wrong." Why would putting the three of them together feel like a SNL sketch? I mean, any more than Rey and Kylo's "witty banter" during Force Skype or Hux being dragged across the deck or any of the other "comedy" in TLJ?

    I didn't want as much as we did if it turned out like it did. I don't care about quantity, I care about quality. What we got wasn't quality.

    Watch me quote Han again: I'm sorry too.
     
  20. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    I didn’t expect or need Luke, Han, or Leia to have large roles in the ST. What I DID expect is that they would pass the “ baton “ to the next generation in a logical and satisfying manner and leave a positive legacy: Luke leaving at least a few Jedi; and Leia leaving a fledgling, but probably not completely stable, new republic. I expected the OT characters and films to be respected, and the story to continue from RotJ. Oh, and yes, I expected to see at least one GOOD next generation character.

    Luke certainly wasn’t anywhere near an Obiwan or yoda character in this ST. Luke suffered character assassination and complete regression in the ST. He was even turned into an almost villain in TLJ. There wasn’t one good thing about Luke in the ST.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  21. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 13, 2020
    I saw the Sequel Trilogy where I thought that, Leia aside, they managed to service the original trilogy characters quite well. I was not making a comparison of the original trilogy characters versus the new ones, I was talking about the inherent risk of bringing back three pop-culture characters from the seventies and eighties and putting them together in scenes over thirty years later and which might end up looking like a comedy sketch.
     
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  22. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    The existing ST is what feels like a comedy sketch to me. Well done interaction between the OT 3 could’ve done much to alleviate this.
     
  23. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Different strokes for different folks. I thought Mark Hamill was electric every time he was onscreen and that the story provided him the opportunity to show us new facets of his craftsmanship as an actor. I realize that it didn't work for everyone, not all art does.
    These are very specific requests. While they may be logical and satisfying to you, I don't think this is some kind of natural extension of where things had to go after ROTJ. These are EU concepts and I am, frankly, surprised that the ST honored these ideas as much as they did.

    Also, I think there were great next generation characters. For example, I love Rey and think she's a wonderful addition to the saga and a worthy heir to the Skywalker name/legacy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  24. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 13, 2020
    Agreed. I thought it an on-screen career best for Mark, he was very, very good. I liked the iteration of Luke too. I don't agree with all the names that Luke gets called in Episode 8, "Mark Hamill" "Not Luke" "Coward" "Loser" "Pathetic" "Faker" - I've seen them all lol.

    I think Luke was portrayed as pretty human, and then at the end, pretty superhuman. He was great.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  25. darthvader88

    darthvader88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Yeah, his best portrayal of Luke by far...

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
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