ST What do you think of TLJ 6 years later?

The reason why there are hints is simply because they are literally -as closely as possible - copying Luke’s story. So they’re not really hints at all. and instead just copy pasted elements that are using Luke’s story, which we all care about, to make us care about Rey, and making us think this is a continuation of that same story in Rey form. They’re cheating and then sorta blaming the audience for dare thinking she was a Skywalker. Only to then make her a false Sklywalker in the last scene

 

But the authors never bothered to figure out which important character she was related to until the last movie. So whether her parents were dead beats or the story was tragic they must be assumed to not be anyone familiar

 

Years ago, before TFA was released, a friend was working a dinner party where JJ was a guest. She overheard someone asking him about "Lost" and him admitting that a lot of it was made up as they went along, and that they'd change their original story ideas if they saw people online had theories that were too similar or outright identical to what they were planning. It was like "The Element of Surprise" was more important than a coherent storyline.

So, I mean, I would'n't put it past them to have indeed intended something like that for Rey, but then chucking it when too many people online were correctly making that assumption. Not saying that's what happened, but it's certainly possible. And it's funny because the ST does indeed have that same kind of meandering and nonsensical plot progression as "Lost". They both felt like stories that were being made up as they went along with no indication they ever had any idea of how to answer the questions they were raising. And it definitely ruined them both.

 

Ok, I don't think this ever happened, because there is no chance in hell JJ Abrams would engage with a random person in this conversation in depth , but it is known to a certain degree that they did indeed have an "idea" about where the show is going, and then started rejecting possible endings based on what people think would happen. But also, JJ Abrams created LOST and had no control over it after the 2nd season. He did the same thing there too. Created a show, albeit an extremely good one, and then let people figure out the ending.

LOST had an extremely well developed story in the first 5 seasons, and everything made sense actually. It suffered from mystery boxes as well, but there was an expplanation for everything. They just dropped the ball in the last season, but not because they couldn't connect all the dots. They actually kind of did that. It's just that their ending was..... way too convoluted. Three different levels of purgatory/afterlife? Oooof...... Even so, if I were to compare LOST and the ST, I would rather watch the former 5 times in its entirety before watching the ST again.

I agree with your assessment though. It is entirely possible that there were certainly some people who were watching what people say online and what hypotheses they are making, and then decide what to do with the story. I don't think RJ was one of them. He couldn't have. He developed his movie and finished the story before TFA was even released. Which is even worse.

 

So what's the relevance of "Luke's lightsaber calls to her"?

 

@Master Jedi Fixxxer I'm not going to argue with you over the merits of "Lost" on a SW message board, but there were many dangling threads that were never tied up. And no one I know found that ending remotely satisfying.

And you can doubt whether the storyline development actually happened that way, but this conversation absolutely did take place. It wasn't with a "random person" it was with a fellow guest at a dinner party. My friend only overheard it, she wasn't engaged in it. And "Lost" was already long over, so he wasn't protecting state secrets anymore. Maybe he was only talking about the first season? Or maybe he still kept tabs on the process after he left. I don't know.. I didn't dig that deep, I'm just repeating what she heard. This was roughly 2014 or 2015. I remember that. because I was immediately like "OMG did he talk about SW?!" But of course, he did not. She told me this anecdote instead.

I'm not trying to make up stories for clout. Please. I just thought it interesting considering the similar "improvised" feeling of the whole ST. Take it as you will.

 

What do you think was the relevance of "Luke's lightsaber calls to her"?

The ending was not great. But it wasn't as bad as some people say. About the dangling threads.... nothing really important was left unanswered. But yeah, off topic.

Oh I am not saying you are, it's just too much hearsay and anecdotal for my taste. Can't really blindly accept it as the truth And I am the last person to defend JJ Abrams, I don't doubt that he probably did say some of those things. But the whole narrative "they are making it up as they go along" about LOST was pushed by the media since the 1st season. I take it with a few dozens of grains of salt personally.

Since I did follow that show, I know for a fact that JJ Abrams stopped writing on LOST since very early in the show. The last 3 seasons were entirely written and planned by Damon Lindeloff and Carlton Cuse, who were the showrunners since season 1. So why would I "blame" JJ Abrams for a show that was run, written, planned and executed by 2 different people for 6 years? I only criticize his work on Star Wars, which is 2 full movies, pretty important ones. Anyway, this is quite irrelevant with the conversation about Star Wars. Apologies for the off topic.

PS. JJ Abrams has done some pretty great stuff in his career, I just don't think Star Wars is even remotely close to that. He's done ALIAS which was amazing, and his movie Super 8 was pretty good too. And I know a lot of Trekkies disagree, but I actually really dig his Star Trek movies. I would not have minded AT ALL a Kelvin or a Fahrenheit timeline in Star Wars if he was so afraid to play with Luke.

 

First rule of the mystery box. You never ever open the box. Opening the box ruins the mystery, and it means you're gonna have think of something to go into that box. You spent so much time making the outside look pretty, and intriguing, why would you want to spend time on the stuff inside? Right? Right! And whatever that is, it will take creative thought to do so, more than it takes to keep the box closed, and it will never top the feelings that the mystery gives you in the first place.

At least according to JJ.

In TFA Rey knew who her parents were. Or at least the people who she thought were her parents. She just wanted them to return, whoever they were, back. She was six when they abandoned her, and six year olds know who their parents are.

Its only in TLJ, in RJ's quest to be meta, that Rey suddenly has no idea who her parents even are, at all. Or at least, is kind of embarrassed by who they are, once Kylo tricks her into thinking he knows who they are. And that's because we the audience still don't either. She is now waiting to be told, as much as we are. Then TROS, skips over the parents and just tells her about her Grandpa. Who she never gave a single second of thought about until ...ehhh now. We then find out her parents were actually good people who were just trying to protect her, even if that meant putting her on Jakku. Which means...why have a mystery for that.

I still think there was enough mystery box ambiguity in TFA that Rey's parents could have been well-known characters, and something was up with Rey misremembering them. Or that the people who dropped her off on Jakku were never really her parents. And something weird was going on with Rey's backstory that included well-known characters. Because if Rey's parents weren't actually well-known to us, why have a mystery exist in the first place.

But alas.

 

Yeah. Crait, in my view, is one of the worst sequences in the saga, IMO.

 

Don't be so cold towards Crait. I mean, don't be so salty.

 

I’ve had similar thoughts about Snoke and Plagueis.

 

From what I've read, heard and discussed on-line, I think most fans (maybe less so now given how contentious the ST is) probably did think Rey being Luke's daughter, would have been the best direction to take the films. At a minimum, I'd say they wanted her to be a blood Skywalker.

 

I don’t believe the authors knew who Plagueis was. Which is why I’m not sold on any fan speculation they they were ever going to do what was expected by theorists in 2014. I don’t think Rey Skywalker or Plagueis were ever intended

 

Indeed, it wouldn't be my first guess as to what happened, especially not the version where it was JJ's intention from the beginning, I'm just saying if someone ever gave a statement to that effect in an interview, my reaction wouldn't be "no way, that's crazy" it would be "yeah that checks out".

 

Don't know about Rian, but JJ absolutely knew about Plagueis since he has said that the opera scene was his favorite scene from the prequels.

 

It was the "Tor Valum" stuff that made me think someone didn't know about Plagueis.

 

Why?
The existence of Tor Valum itself implies the person who wrote him in the story knew about Darth Plagueis.
If you mean that Tor Valum would have retconned the novel "Darth Plagueis", Disney did that first years ago.
Darth Plagueis (the novel) is not considered canon in Disney Star Wars.

 

How can Tor Valum exist if the Rule of Two is a thing? Much like a backstory-free Snoke, he doesn't fit.

In what medium?

 

His story could have been modified so that Palpatine and Plagueis did not know that he was still alive.
Or they could have retconned the Rule of Two. It's not like they hadn't already retconned a million things with TFA and TLJ.

All of them. Darth Plagueis is considered part of Legends.

 

What Disney source contradicted it?

 

I didn't say they contradicted it. I said they retconned it. Along with all the Legends novels.

Removed it from whatever canon status it had (C-canon). Call it how you want.

The point is that this novel is not considered part of canon, so it cannot even be contradicted.